Author Topic: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...  (Read 725 times)

Offline P.I.

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P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« on: July 18, 2018, 11:02:46 AM »
The following is the experiences of a customer of mine that is on a Tonequest.  Here are excerpts from a series of emails concerning his experiences with Furutech GTX NCF, GTX(G) aand one of my modified Pass & Seymour 5362A receptacles.  The P&S is cryogenicallt treated and loaded internall with a noise reduction compound that I have been working on over the last couple of years getting the formula where it is today.

Kinda long, but you can see that we all suffer from the same Audiophilia Nervosa.  Enjoy:

************************************************************************************
Gold came in Saturday morning. Put it in Furman with P&S. Running turntable out board power supply and SS phono pre on gold 24/7. Only time for one album before I left, it sounded big but everything stepping on each other with fair transparency. Ran it 12 hours then listened late last night, it cleaned up a fair bit. Listing to it now, it smoothed out some from last night, kind of shocked how easy gold is breaking in,( 5 day cook on high) its enjoyable to listed to. This no NCF type break in, that was insane. I did flip outlets to P&S twice tonight. P&S follows the NCF flavor, transparent and faster than gold. Gold has more soul, slower and cloudy, with NCF flavor still in the mix, glad that wasn't lost, at least not yet. Both sound better than furman stock hospital grade outlets, which sound darker. I will let you know when yours arrive safe and installed.

*******************
Hey Dave, swung by house to grab something this morning, checked mail box it was here, installed it before I left. Had to listen one song before I took off. This is dead cold tubes. First 10 seconds instruments locked in there space, no swinging stage like it's been doing, music sounded horrible, cold tubes. I know it sounds crazy but I know my system. Left everything on. The NCF transformed my system to something it never could do before, being so transparent , but felt it was slightly artificial and didn't truly enjoy listening to music since I bought it, but didn't want to pull it and lose all the new information, just try to fix the problem, crazy hobby. I listened to 3 albums tonight, don't understand why your and gold outlets sound fairly broken in, both are listenable. I told myself I would be honest if your outlet did not best gold, but in a nice way. Your outlet tonight had instruments solid in there spot, it sounded big but controlled, toms were tuneful, you could hear the pitch the drummer was going for when he tuned his drum. The gold catches the nice warm tone of the drum but didn't capture the note or true natural pitch of a good quality drum like yours did, if that makes sense. Im just guessing here, if your outlet was neutral I would still have NCF shouting at me on some recordings passing through your outlet. That not the case, your outlet is super transparent just like NCF but very natural, not hi if sounding like NCF. Maybe yours is slight warm side of neutral. After listening to your outlet I realize with gold I am losing detail, but it's probably to early to determine and didn't want to switch to gold things were sounding to good. I can't help but wonder what your outlet would sound like in the wall going up against NCF. Is NCF making your outlet do this or can your outlet do this on its own (NCF couldn't fix stage yours did). Whatever is going on your outlet made me want to keep listening to music again tonight. I didn't think I would notice this first night. I'll give it 4  or 5 days and check back in...

********************
(I) spent some time this weekend with your outlet. I find the gold broke in a fair amount and yours can't tell if it changed much, maybe a little smoother. I prefer yours to the gold. I find it has a way to make instruments jump out of speakers and startle me a times, which makes things fun. In my system it's a perfect match with NCF. Very detailed, no recessed information like gold. I find it's fast, detailed, smooth and musical which is hard thing to balance in any one component or outlet. With digital on most recordings I prefer yours. Both outlets are enjoyable with cd but different.  With vinyl your outlet is the only way to go with my set up, no question about it. Maybe gold needs more time. I'm still running both 24/7. What does ping pang mean, I sure appreciate you sending me your outlet, I will give them more time and report back...

[ping / pang is the difference of SQ that nylon tips vs. all wood drumsticks mye while striking a ride cymbal]

********************
Your outlet is special, big bass and passes NCF highs which are special on there own with absolutely no loss of anything, none, zero, that's what makes it special, everything is still musical since install, fixed my 3 month problem with NCF...

********************
I played your outlet last night playing a Kebo cd for back ground music. Just got home turned on system for back ground music to do paper work same Kebo cd was in drawer, this thing has changed over night. Noise floor dropped, today highs are the best this system has ever produced, metal things a crunching, you can hear the peaks a valleys of the metal rubbing up against each other, it's also going lower with a beautiful tone, I'm a tone junkie, I have a Martin D28 and evertime I walk by it I have to hit the big E string just to hear it...

********************

And so it goes.  This is during the last 10 days.  There is still a bit of juicy goodness to come, but it is mostly "there".  The last change is the settling in of the goo.  It takes about 10 days to get ... uhm... aligned - for the want of a better word.  Characteristics of the materials involved.

The receptacle is the P.I. P&S 5362A Mod C  Price is $80.00 each with shipping of $8.00 that covers up to 4 receptacles

My thanks to P. C. for being a great reviewer of my insanity   :thumb:
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline Nick B

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2018, 11:09:04 AM »
I think I have these P & S receptacles iirc. Excellent sounding, big bang for the buck which I always appreciate 👍
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Offline richidoo

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2018, 01:37:16 PM »
I see 5362I, but I can't find any reference to P&S 5362A on the web. Is that a P.I. part number?
I wanted to see how it's made, internal details, etc.
Thanks
Rich


Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2018, 07:46:19 PM »
I think I have these P & S receptacles iirc. Excellent sounding, big bang for the buck which I always appreciate 👍
Nick, nope. You have the hand polished, but without the goo.  I wasnít quite done with development when you bought your Uber.  The Mod receptacle is a VERY different animal from the polished, cryoed receptacles that you have.  Gotta have something in the pouch, you know   8)
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2018, 08:10:04 PM »
I see 5362I, but I can't find any reference to P&S 5362A on the web. Is that a P.I. part number?
I wanted to see how it's made, internal details, etc.
Thanks
Rich
Rich, here you go: 

https://www.legrand.us/passandseymour/receptacles/fed-spec-grade/ehd-industrial-grade/5362abk.aspx

If you check the specs against most other receptacles a couple of things jump out:

.036Ē contacts vs. .031Ē in most others
The alloy is different with a higher copper content
#10 fixing screws (brass) instead of steel
I remove the drive screws (steel) and replace them with brass.  This yields a non magnetic receptacle.

It is, simply, the best sounding commercially available stock NEMA receptacle that I have found.  I tried about 15 different ones searching for the best mate to the Uber.  P&S were the best sounding to my ears and a half a dozen other of my beta testers, hands down.  This was after crypto treatment.  It smoothed out and reduced the break in time of the receptacles.
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2018, 08:14:59 PM »
I see 5362I, but I can't find any reference to P&S 5362A on the web. Is that a P.I. part number?
I wanted to see how it's made, internal details, etc.
Thanks
Rich
Whoops...

Iíll be happy to disassemble several different receptacles and post gut shots of them if you wish.  I have a few here that I can do this to.  Really enlightening.  Very little symmetry.........
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline Nick B

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2018, 09:08:09 PM »
I think I have these P & S receptacles iirc. Excellent sounding, big bang for the buck which I always appreciate 👍
Nick, nope. You have the hand polished, but without the goo.  I wasnít quite done with development when you bought your Uber.  The Mod receptacle is a VERY different animal from the polished, cryoed receptacles that you have.  Gotta have something in the pouch, you know   8)

Hmmm....so I donít have the latest and the greatest?! Iíll be curious what the differences are!
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline richidoo

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2018, 07:24:09 AM »
Thanks for the info Dave
PM sent

Offline Folsom

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2018, 03:53:22 PM »
Damnit, now you've peaked some of my interest, too. Frankly what I hate about sockets is the design is not good for the projecting fields. That's why packing them or using NCF material does something.

Did you ever compare Hubbell receptacles? I like their construction a lot, but haven't ear-checked them compared to P&S. I often order at the mercy of eBay to get $5 high grade ones.

My wall socket is a Furutech rhodium over pure copper. Does it sound different? Hell ya. But I'm not overally drawn to it by comparison. To be frank I'm slightly scared about why they sound different from plating to plating. I suspect gold may be more honest than Rhodium.

Offline rollo

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2018, 07:49:26 AM »
Dave sent me a sample awhile back. I prefer the P&S with Daves work to ANY Furutech outlet. The Rhodium is just hard and over detailed, the Gold colored warm and the Copper bright.
The only reservation I have about the review is break in time. The Furutechs require 250 hours to stop changing. Also compared Dave's to Vodoo  brand Outlets, one all Copper, one Gold over Copper.
Dave's is just neutral meaning it just gets out of the way. Adds nothing subtracts nothing. At $80 each IMHO a no-brainer. BTW they grip like a German Shepard, TIGHT !! Get out that checkbook guys you will be glad you did.

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Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2018, 10:25:48 AM »
Damnit, now you've peaked some of my interest, too. Frankly what I hate about sockets is the design is not good for the projecting fields. That's why packing them or using NCF material does something.

Did you ever compare Hubbell receptacles? I like their construction a lot, but haven't ear-checked them compared to P&S. I often order at the mercy of eBay to get $5 high grade ones.

My wall socket is a Furutech rhodium over pure copper. Does it sound different? Hell ya. But I'm not overally drawn to it by comparison. To be frank I'm slightly scared about why they sound different from plating to plating. I suspect gold may be more honest than Rhodium.
Howdy, Jeremy.

During the Uber saga I have tried every receptacle I could find for use in the Uber.  Early on I used the P&S 5362 Spec Grade...,the standard one with the .031" contacts and a different brass alloy.  It was better than the others that I tried. Music had more "flow".  [Man, I hate "audiophool" descriptions, but...]  I kept trying receptacles frome Leviton, Hubbell, Eagle, Cooper, etc.  I tried 8200, 8300 - everything.  The P&S 5362A stood out as a better and (important to me) more consistent performer.  I settled on it as standard fare about 2-1/2 years ago.  I started modifying them last year.  Removing the assembly pins and replacing them with brass screws make an all brass / no steel receptacle.  The high copper .036 contacts grip like a pit bull.  I remembered back to seeing electron microscope pictures of identical alloy unpolished vs. polished contacts.  Unpolished looked like a miniature lightning storm (RFI generating) and polished more of a purple glow indicative of ion migration.  Polishing is a no brainer and is great for all applications.  That is why all of my Wattgate equipped power cables had polished contacts.

When Furutech came out with the NCF receptacles it got me thinking about local RFI mitigation and I started on my current (pun?) quest.  The goo I came up with is exceptional at RFI absorption and also acts as a mass damper.

I have a GTX NCF in the wall.  It is a great receptacle, but is prone to occasional fits.  If the system isn't used for a while it seems to "back up in SQ a tad and another mini-breakin occurs, pisses me off.  Getting ready to take it out, methinks.

I have come to realize that unplated contacts are the ones that I prefer.  Here's why:

Nickel - hard and harsh

Gold - warm, round and too soft in a neutral system

Beryllium copper,- forward in the upper meds... kind of an inverse BBC dip

Silver - bright-ish

Rhodium - the manic depressive, paranoid schizophrenic of all platings.  It CAN sound great in a system that tends to darkness, but is a PITA getting where "there" is.

High copper alloys are the best choice for me - when treated properly.

All of these observations are my (old) ears, my system in my home.

YMMV, but probably not much.
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Offline Folsom

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2018, 12:05:44 PM »
The A model is harder to find.

These are all good notes. Is there an isolated ground version of the A that works like you describe? Could you make your formula into an isolated ground 5362A?

Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2018, 04:18:02 PM »
The A model is harder to find.

These are all good notes. Is there an isolated ground version of the A that works like you describe? Could you make your formula into an isolated ground 5362A?
Not into a PASS & SEYMOUR.  They just don't make that receptacle.  If you want that done to another manufacturer contact me and I will make it so.
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Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2018, 08:21:50 PM »
Another and I think at least semi-final update on the new ModC 5362A receptacle from my reviewer.  A few words about him. He is not, to date, a P.I.audio group client.  Hecame to me out of the blue when I was wanting someone to evaluate what I thinkis a very good product.  All of a sudden he shows up in my inbox like a gift from God. Who knew?

Anyway, the man is well versed in audio and more importantly in what is musical.  I am so thankful for his input.

Here is his last email:

******************************
Dave, let (Furutech) gold and your outlet run in since last email. Saturday makes 2 weeks on both outlets. I think both outlets are fairly broken in now. So I flipped between gold and yours a few times on same Keb Mo cd, it was still in player. Gold became more transparent but not up to your outlets degree. With 2 weeks noise floor and better pin point image improved with yours. Gold is slightly fuller but blurred. Bass on yours is much tighter and true. My cd player will stay plugged into yours from now on. Spent a lot of time listening to vinyl after 2 week break in, jazz, folk, blues, classical, results follow same attributes as cd but with a bigger gap of improvement flipping between gold and yours. Instruments are bigger, taller and placed further from center of stage and beyond speaker boundaries with yours. If I had to describe gold it would be big, round, colored with slight rolled off highs and can sometimes get boring after a while. To describe yours would have to say big, sound stage became deeper, fills the room with a natural balance of bass. Very low noise floor, airy highs, super transparent without ever becoming fatigued, even listening for hour after hour late in the night. Its just enjoyable to listen to! It's very close to neutral which is what I prefer, if I want to alter sound I can do that with cables or tubes not an outlet that is so far back in the chain. May sound crazy but I find just as much or more of an improvement changing out outlets than rolling top notch NOS tubes, phono stage will stay plugged into yours full time, I think this outlet would fit any system, tube, solid state, warm, neutral or tipped up, it does nothing wrong...

************************* I'll settle for this.

Thank you, Paul!!!   :thumb:
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 10:59:07 PM by P.I. »
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Offline mikeeastman

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 04:54:58 PM »
Well I donít know what kind of Voodoo Dave works up in his workshop, but he work up some very good stuff with his modded receptacle. It pretty much took my system up a couple of notches in all areas, so rather than go into all that detail I'll just give more details about the two things I care about the most.

 First is detail, Iím more than a little obsessive about it and this receptacle took it up to anew level really bring out those very subtle details.

The second is the ability of a system to make the music reach out and grab hold of you and just suck you in and it  took my system up a few notches in that area also.

The only problem I had with the receptacle was, I have # 8 wire running to my dedicated circuits and fitting it in wasnít pretty, so I ordered some Furtuech gold plated copper spades, now itís very pretty.

I have 175 hrs of burn in, donít know if it will improve with more.

Check your in box Dave I need another one for my other circuit .
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