Author Topic: need suggestions on streamers  (Read 2216 times)

Offline Nick B

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2018, 06:20:49 PM »

I know the wifi is a problem and pretty much, it always has been. Thats why Iíll either use an extender like Emil did or get an Eero. As to changing channels, that is not easy to understand for me. I tried  assigning a static channel one time on the ASUS with their tech support and it was so complicated that I gave up. I really need plug and play options...ease of use....if thatís even possible with routers. The last thing I want to do is spend many , many hours trying to understand the intricacies of routers.
As to the Bluesound, a Vault 2 is intriguing. I assume it has an internal smps, but presume you are very satisfied with the sound. Everything will get plugged into the Uber anyway.

What model ASUS router do you have? I can "walk you through" the process of creating a static IP via PM if you like. With that said, that won't help your connectivity issues, but will help you with eliminating the frustration of resetting up your Bluesound each time it gets booted and reconnects. BTW... I'm assuming your collection is on your PC (I forget)? Do you reboot that at all? Is your computer a MAC or Windows machine?

Another vote for the Powerline adapter - read Emil's thread. Netgear, Zyxel (what I use) are pretty solid.

I may take you up on your offer once I sort things out. Iím pretty sure itís  the RT87U. I researched routers quite a bit, but performance wise, itís not much better than my old Linksys. I have a Mac desktop in the far bedroom and that Mac runs Roonís core. So when that disconnects, it causes me grief. It seems the Auralic app disconnects as well. When that happens, I close Roon on the Mac and reopen the app. Very simple. But rebooting the Auralic is a gigantic pain. I realize that it may be a combination of Tidal streaming and my internet issues and my router.
Late last night, I switched from the 5.0 to the 2.4 band. Iíll see if that helps ar all. When I listen to music, I close the door where my wife is watching tv so sheís not disturbed. That room also has the router, so Iím not sure if that influences reception at all.
I keep my music on an external drive and the Auralic has an internal drive, but the instructions indicate once I transfer from the external to the internal drive, it will wipe the external drive. Why, I have no idea. I havenít messed with it.
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline RichardS

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2018, 08:42:52 PM »
Iíll share my experience with using a powerline adapter for streaming, in case it may be of any helpÖ
I have a Modwright Sony streamer, which Iím quite happy with for my own music collection, but it doesnít stream Tidal, which I really wanted (and now feel like I couldnít live without). So I bought an Auralic Aries, but before using it I read lots of forum posts of folks complaining about their streaming software. So I bought an Elac Discovery streamer for $1K (and sold the Auralic) and Iím extremely happy with it. It has coax and Toslink digital outs (I use coax into a LKS 004 DAC or Exogal Comet), in addition to analog outs, and comes with a lifetime Roon Essentials subscription that stays with the unitóit can be used as a Roon endpoint as well, but I simply use the included Roon (limited to 30,000 tracks).
It requires a hardwired Ethernet connection, and my listening room is in a studio guest house separated from the main house, so I use a Netgear powerline adapter (from Netgear AC1750 router). Set up is simple and Iíve had no connection problems, and almost never get dropouts or have to reboot (I canít remember the last time I did). The Elac is limited to 24/96. With Roon, my library on my external HD and Tidal library are synced perfectly. I use an iPad as the remote, that syncs with my router over wifi.
I was concerned about RFI/EMI riding on the powerline into the DAC, but the sound was very good. I found that changing to a Harmonic Tech Photon digital cable improved the sound slightly over the Analysis Plus cable I was using, but canít say whether thatís from eliminating RFI, etc. or just that itís a better cable. I had also considered using a glass Toslink into a WFS Remedy reclocker, but think all is well as-is. The combination of the powerline adapter and Elac streamer is one of the best things Iíve ever done to enhance my listening pleasureÖ good luck figuring out your situation Ö

Offline Emil

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2018, 06:52:17 AM »
If you do go the hardwire route, throw away the generic ethernet cables you have around the house.

Supra makes a nice cable. TWL will be coming out with their own. I'm looking forward to giving it a try.


 
"Today I didn't even have to use my A.K.
I got to say it was a good day"
    --Ice Cube

Offline rollo

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2018, 07:21:47 AM »
If you do go the hardwire route, throw away the generic ethernet cables you have around the house.

Supra makes a nice cable. TWL will be coming out with their own. I'm looking forward to giving it a try.



   We use either the TWL or Supra for demonstrating the Aqua La Diva transport and Formula DAC. Aqua uses an I2s [ Ethernet] to connect transport to DAC. Two different characters. TWL is a tad brighter than Supra. Not bright in sound overall just more than Supra. Both are VG choosing one over other is system dependent
We have NOT used Ethernet from router or any other connection. Well so far.

charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
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Offline Nick B

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2018, 09:24:31 AM »
Iíll share my experience with using a powerline adapter for streaming, in case it may be of any helpÖ
I have a Modwright Sony streamer, which Iím quite happy with for my own music collection, but it doesnít stream Tidal, which I really wanted (and now feel like I couldnít live without). So I bought an Auralic Aries, but before using it I read lots of forum posts of folks complaining about their streaming software. So I bought an Elac Discovery streamer for $1K (and sold the Auralic) and Iím extremely happy with it. It has coax and Toslink digital outs (I use coax into a LKS 004 DAC or Exogal Comet), in addition to analog outs, and comes with a lifetime Roon Essentials subscription that stays with the unitóit can be used as a Roon endpoint as well, but I simply use the included Roon (limited to 30,000 tracks).
It requires a hardwired Ethernet connection, and my listening room is in a studio guest house separated from the main house, so I use a Netgear powerline adapter (from Netgear AC1750 router). Set up is simple and Iíve had no connection problems, and almost never get dropouts or have to reboot (I canít remember the last time I did). The Elac is limited to 24/96. With Roon, my library on my external HD and Tidal library are synced perfectly. I use an iPad as the remote, that syncs with my router over wifi.
I was concerned about RFI/EMI riding on the powerline into the DAC, but the sound was very good. I found that changing to a Harmonic Tech Photon digital cable improved the sound slightly over the Analysis Plus cable I was using, but canít say whether thatís from eliminating RFI, etc. or just that itís a better cable. I had also considered using a glass Toslink into a WFS Remedy reclocker, but think all is well as-is. The combination of the powerline adapter and Elac streamer is one of the best things Iíve ever done to enhance my listening pleasureÖ good luck figuring out your situation Ö

I did a lot more listening last night using the Roon software. First, I just played songs from my CD library. No dropouts whatsoever, so my router was doing fine. Then I concentrated on just streaming Tidal via Roon and thatís where I had lots of trouble. The music would stop. I would get the same error message from Tidal saying thereís a problem streaming and I would lose connectivity with the ďzoneĒ I was playing. The zone would vanish from my screen. The only solution then is for me is to get up from the living room, go into my office, close out the Roon app on my Mac and reopen the Roon app. Once that is done, the correct zone reappears and I can stream Tidal again. I did that at least 10 times last night and finally got tired of the routine. So at least last night, there was stability in that I had the same, one issue. I did check the Roon help section regarding this problem and will look again tonight. This evening, for a while, I will only use the Tidal app (which I never do) and check if I get any interruptions while streaming.

I still will be upgrading or changing my router and maybe changing my streamer. The Auralic software is definitely a pain to deal with sometimes, so maybe an Elac or Bluesound is the way to go.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 09:31:24 AM by Nick B »
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline Nick B

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2018, 09:35:29 AM »
Regarding the use of better quality ethernet cables, I agree. Have yet to experiment with any one them. Have no idea regarding pricing as to the brands you mentioned. but doubt Id want to spend more than $100
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline richidoo

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2018, 09:40:35 AM »
This will let you test your internet connection over longer period of time than speedtest.net
https://testmy.net/
http://backup1.startrinity.com/InternetQuality/ContinuousBandwidthTester.aspx

Test your WAN with your router running on an old boot then reboot it fresh and test again.

Are you still using the ISP's cable modem? Or does your Asus router include the cable modem?

Offline Emil

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2018, 10:54:02 AM »
Regarding the use of better quality ethernet cables, I agree. Have yet to experiment with any one them. Have no idea regarding pricing as to the brands you mentioned. but doubt Id want to spend more than $100

Then try the Supra. I have them and they do make a difference for the better.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supra-CAT-8-STP-patch-cable-2-meter-Made-In-Sweden-THE-BEST-FOR-NETWORK-AUDIO/152969530366?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44039%26meid%3Dcb09d9a231f64d93943f5cbb054fbc58%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D401257509195%26itm%3D152969530366&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850
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Offline jimbones

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2018, 03:19:09 PM »
I'm new to streaming and a bit confused.

What does the $1200 Lumin have over the $500 Node if all you want to do is stream?

It's a streamer, it's a dac, it handles Mqa, you can bypass the dac if you need to. It comes with a free app. It is roon and tidal ready. It is the Swiss army knife of streamers
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 10:13:55 AM by Nick B »
Modwright LS100, Wells Audio Innamorata Pwr, VPI Classic II/BenzMicro Glider, Lambda Legend OB Speakers,  Auralic Vega DAC, Emotiva ERC-3,Lumin D1, WireWorld, Wywires, Shunyata, PS Audio, TWL, PS Audio

Offline jimbones

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2018, 05:18:24 PM »
If you do go the hardwire route, throw away the generic ethernet cables you have around the house.

Supra makes a nice cable. TWL will be coming out with their own. I'm looking forward to giving it a try.



I bought some cat 7 cable on Amazon. Seems fine.
Modwright LS100, Wells Audio Innamorata Pwr, VPI Classic II/BenzMicro Glider, Lambda Legend OB Speakers,  Auralic Vega DAC, Emotiva ERC-3,Lumin D1, WireWorld, Wywires, Shunyata, PS Audio, TWL, PS Audio

Offline djdube525

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2018, 03:26:00 AM »
Are you still using the ISP's cable modem? Or does your Asus router include the cable modem?

I believe Nick said he's the Asus 87u which does not include a cable modem (AFAIK, none of the Asus routers include a built in cable modem).

I hesitate to mention this, but there is a very good 3rd party firmware for Asus Routers that is built on-top of the core router software (it looks and feels the same as the Asus based SW... just extra features). The developer works with Asus directly, and is often fixing bugs, and adding new features, which often times, eventually gets rolled back into the mainline SW.

I know Nick has mentioned hesitation to "muck around" with the router settings, but there is a fair amount of QoS controls built in that would give priority to the traffic in question.

It would be interesting if Nick could "borrow" a long ethernet cable, and go the wired route just to test if the issue remains. It would be nice rule out wireless vs. wired discussion. 

Offline Emil

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2018, 06:08:59 AM »
If you do go the hardwire route, throw away the generic ethernet cables you have around the house.

Supra makes a nice cable. TWL will be coming out with their own. I'm looking forward to giving it a try.



I bought some cat 7 cable on Amazon. Seems fine.

and you call yourself an audiophile? :)

Supra is inexpensive enough to give it a try

https://audiobacon.net/2017/05/31/supra-cat8-ethernet-cable-review-an-amazing-spotify-and-tidal-experience/
"Today I didn't even have to use my A.K.
I got to say it was a good day"
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Offline mdconnelly

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2018, 07:50:45 AM »
My personal experience with ethernet cables is that I have a difficult time consistently hearing much of a difference much less which is better (caveat: my ears are over 65 years old and I'm sure I've lost some hearing at the upper end ;-)

But to put it in context, I can readily hear differences and improvements between power cords, speaker cables and analog interconnects.   I have a more difficult time with digital ICs and USB cables.   But ethernet cables are something else.   I have compared good cables (e.g. Supra & TWL), with Amazon el cheapos and with Blue Jeans.   Is there a build difference?  Absolutely.  But sonically, I'd never consistently pick them out of a blind lineup.   Now, I don't doubt that those with better ears do discern differences.  So while the audiophile in me has always wanted the very best I can afford, and the cost of cables such as Supra & TWL is far from unreasonable, I personally see (hear) it as a very low-priority consideration.  (and besides, trying to hear differences in cables drives me a bit nuts anyway).   I will say that I really like bluejeancable.com because they test every cable and publish the result - they've always worked well for me. 

So for me, I just don't sweat ethernet cables.  Far, far too many other things that can influence sound quality to a much greater degree (at least to these old ears). 

Offline Nick B

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2018, 10:28:06 AM »
This will let you test your internet connection over longer period of time than speedtest.net
https://testmy.net/
http://backup1.startrinity.com/InternetQuality/ContinuousBandwidthTester.aspx

Test your WAN with your router running on an old boot then reboot it fresh and test again.

Are you still using the ISP's cable modem? Or does your Asus router include the cable modem?

Rich, thanks for the links. Iíll give it a go. The Asus does not contain a modem. I need to find he ďwindow of opportunity ď to do a reboot.
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline Nick B

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2018, 11:57:35 AM »
Are you still using the ISP's cable modem? Or does your Asus router include the cable modem?

I believe Nick said he's the Asus 87u which does not include a cable modem (AFAIK, none of the Asus routers include a built in cable modem).

I hesitate to mention this, but there is a very good 3rd party firmware for Asus Routers that is built on-top of the core router software (it looks and feels the same as the Asus based SW... just extra features). The developer works with Asus directly, and is often fixing bugs, and adding new features, which often times, eventually gets rolled back into the mainline SW.

I know Nick has mentioned hesitation to "muck around" with the router settings, but there is a fair amount of QoS controls built in that would give priority to the traffic in question.

It would be interesting if Nick could "borrow" a long ethernet cable, and go the wired route just to test if the issue remains. It would be nice rule out wireless vs. wired discussion.

Correct, no modem. I think I have that installed over? the Asus software. Not sure right now as Iím not in the house. Also, how would it be of benefit if I used his software? Youíre right about the mucking part. I can only handle so much of this technical stuff
at one time before my brain crashes. Then I need to reboot as well  :roll:
Last night I only used the Tidal app itself and it went pretty much error free. I had to tap multipe times on some obscure songs a few times, but it was not close to the level of the Roon crashes. I donít have a long enough ethernet to try your experiment. I am seriously considering the Eero based on the good feedback so far.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 11:59:37 AM by Nick B »
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A