Author Topic: need suggestions on streamers  (Read 1720 times)

Offline Nick B

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need suggestions on streamers
« on: April 09, 2018, 09:59:10 PM »
I realize some of this has been covered before, but I sure am considering a change from the Auralic Mini. Here’s a summary of my current setup:

Auralic Aries Mini with dedicated power supply
Antelope Gold dac
Tidal
Roon

I have been running this setup and it often gives me problems. Tidal streaming is sluggish and I realize not much can be done about that. The Auralic Mini is wireless and sometimes disconnects. I have it on the 2.4 band, but I’ll double check those settings. When the Mini disconnects, I have to go through a whole series of tedious steps to have it connect again. It is a royal pita. I use and like Roon, but Roon is a bit of a pita as well. Roon has to run a “core”....it’s guts, so to speak...and I chose the mac desktop for that. Then I can control Roon...or Auralic’s DS Lightning software as well, from multiple devices like my iPad or my wife’s iPad or iPhone. As Roon has the capability to run various zones, my zone disconnects sometimes and that causes problems as well. I only run one zone and will never run different zones. I am also considering a different router, but that’s another discussion.

My budget is $1,200 or so. I’d like to focus just on other streamers and only two come to mind in that price range: the Sonos and the Bluesound. I want something simple and reliable. If it disconnects, I don’t want to go through the very tedious setup that Auralic requires. I will not need a streamer with a dac as the Antelope is quite good.

If you have these products or know of others within my price range, pls le5 me know.
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline jimbones

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 03:59:41 AM »
I use the Lumin, works flawlessly.
Modwright LS100, Wells Audio Innamorata Pwr, VPI Classic II/BenzMicro Glider, Open Aire Aktiv OB Speakers,  Emotiva ERC-3,Lumin D1, Burson Conductor, WireWorld, Wywires, SR, PS Audio, TWL, PS Audio

Offline richidoo

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 05:57:41 AM »
Sounds like your LAN is the biggest problem. Fix that first then see if you need anything more.

I recently installed an eero wireless system and it has been a big improvement over the ATT all in one router. eero cured a lot of different problems. I connect it with cable to my ATT router and shut off everything else in the router, so it's really just a WAN gateway now. eero does everything else, DHCP, and wireless.
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Offline Emil

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 06:44:18 AM »
Try these if WiFi is an an issue. Can always return them

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=6706.msg84837#msg84837
"Today I didn't even have to use my A.K.
I got to say it was a good day"
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Offline Nick B

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 09:50:17 AM »
I use the Lumin, works flawlessly.

Jim,
A $1,200 Lumin? Haven’t found one
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline tmazz

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 10:58:29 AM »
I have to agree with Rich, if you are losing connections to both the streamer and the roon control devices it w the problem with still be there even if you get a new streamer would seem to point to a WiFi problem. And if this is the case the problem will remain even if you get another streamer.

It might be a coverage problem, but it could also be an interference issue. one of the first things I would try is simply changing the Wifi to a different channel. Perhaps there is a neighbor operating on the same channel with a high power router that is stepping all over your signals. This is a quick and easy thing to try and best of all it does not involve any cash outlay.

As for streaming I have been using the Bluesound Node for about two years now and it has given me very little trouble at all. The reason I mentioned getting dropouts last weekend was not because it is a persistent problem, but rather because it was so out of the ordinary. At first the control software was a little clumsy, but I have to say it has gotten much better over time.

The only problem I have had on a regular basis is that every once in a while I get a 1 or 2 second burst of static. This only happens when playing either native of MQA unfolded 24/96 files.  And I think the problem is not with the Node, but rather with my DAC. I have one of the original EE DACs and it has an early TOSLINK receiver that is bandwidth limited to a max of 24/96. Although the DAC itself will do 192, the optical input will not go that high (the next version the DAC Plus had a better receiver that solved this problem.) So I have a feeling that there is a sync issue with 24/96 files. But it only happens occasionally and is quickly over, so for now I am just living with it. The current production Bluesound streamer the Node 2 had coaxial as well as optical digital outs, which I think would solve the problem, but it is just not annoying enough to get me to shell out $500 to fix it.

And FYI, the with the last software update, Bluesound units will now stream Amazon Prime Music, which may or may not interest you. I am hoping that sometime soon they will include the software to stream Sirius/XM.

Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• Quicksilver Mid Monos
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Sumiko Blue Pt. Special
• EE Minmax DAC/Bluesound Node/Denon 2910
• TWL Power Cords/MIT Cables

Offline Nick B

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 11:49:14 AM »
I have to agree with Rich, if you are losing connections to both the streamer and the roon control devices it w the problem with still be there even if you get a new streamer would seem to point to a WiFi problem. And if this is the case the problem will remain even if you get another streamer.

It might be a coverage problem, but it could also be an interference issue. one of the first things I would try is simply changing the Wifi to a different channel. Perhaps there is a neighbor operating on the same channel with a high power router that is stepping all over your signals. This is a quick and easy thing to try and best of all it does not involve any cash outlay.

As for streaming I have been using the Bluesound Node for about two years now and it has given me very little trouble at all. The reason I mentioned getting dropouts last weekend was not because it is a persistent problem, but rather because it was so out of the ordinary. At first the control software was a little clumsy, but I have to say it has gotten much better over time.

The only problem I have had on a regular basis is that every once in a while I get a 1 or 2 second burst of static. This only happens when playing either native of MQA unfolded 24/96 files.  And I think the problem is not with the Node, but rather with my DAC. I have one of the original EE DACs and it has an early TOSLINK receiver that is bandwidth limited to a max of 24/96. Although the DAC itself will do 192, the optical input will not go that high (the next version the DAC Plus had a better receiver that solved this problem.) So I have a feeling that there is a sync issue with 24/96 files. But it only happens occasionally and is quickly over, so for now I am just living with it. The current production Bluesound streamer the Node 2 had coaxial as well as optical digital outs, which I think would solve the problem, but it is just not annoying enough to get me to shell out $500 to fix it.

And FYI, the with the last software update, Bluesound units will now stream Amazon Prime Music, which may or may not interest you. I am hoping that sometime soon they will include the software to stream Sirius/XM.

I know the wifi is a problem and pretty much, it always has been. Thats why I’ll either use an extender like Emil did or get an Eero. As to changing channels, that is not easy to understand for me. I tried  assigning a static channel one time on the ASUS with their tech support and it was so complicated that I gave up. I really need plug and play options...ease of use....if that’s even possible with routers. The last thing I want to do is spend many , many hours trying to understand the intricacies of routers.
As to the Bluesound, a Vault 2 is intriguing. I assume it has an internal smps, but presume you are very satisfied with the sound. Everything will get plugged into the Uber anyway.
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline mdconnelly

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 01:31:32 PM »
In my ever most humble opinion, streaming via wifi will eventually lead to frustration and I agree with others that it's unlikely that a different streamer will fix that unless you're willing to simply stream lower-bandwidth music.    I also suspect that as IOT becomes far more ubiquitous, it will only get worse.  (e.g. why would anyone need their frig on wifi or washing machine on wifi, and yet, there it is).    Far too often, I'd tweak something and think I'd finally got it working well and the next day the music would start stuttering or drop out again.

About 6 years ago I gave up trying different routers, bandwidths, etc.. and added structured wiring in my house where I wanted ethernet most.  (up to that point, running the ethernet cable down the stairs and across the hallway had an inverse correlation on marital bliss).   It wasn't a cheap investment but all streaming problems went away along with the many headaches associated with keeping wifi working for all other applications. 

Nick, if running ethernet is simply not feasible, then I'd give one of the mesh network solutions a try such as the eero that Rich pointed out.   I've heard good things about Google's as well (but have no experience with either).  There's quite a few on the market.   Google "mesh wifi".

Offline richidoo

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 02:28:38 PM »
I like the eero wireless for civilian duties, but my sotm player is still hardwired to a switch off the eero's 2nd port.
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Offline tmazz

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2018, 02:59:23 PM »
I too have been thinking about adding some powerline extenders like the Emil used for my streamer and the TV, not so much because my audio and video streaming performance is problematic, but rather to take some of the more bandwidth intensive applications off of my WiFi network to increase the performance of the other portable devices in the house like our laptops and tablets.

What is holding me back at this point is a concern about what effect the ethernet data riding on the powerline might have on my audio performance. We all go to great lengths  to make the AC power into our systems as clean as possible so it seems kind of counter intuitive to purposely put some kind of foreign signal on the power lines. How different is that from he noise generated by the frig? Even though it is a useful signal, then looked at from the point of view of an audio device using the power, it is something on the line other than 60 cycle AC, therefore it is noise.

So I will throw this question out to our power purity guru, Dave, have you in the development of any of your devices had occasion to look at  the effects of powerline ethernet on audio performance? Is it rectified out or is the frequency of the data signal high enough that it does not really make it through the power supply? And if is does cause a problem does one of your buss devices filter it out and make it a non issue?

Any insights would be appreciated.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• Quicksilver Mid Monos
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Sumiko Blue Pt. Special
• EE Minmax DAC/Bluesound Node/Denon 2910
• TWL Power Cords/MIT Cables

Offline jimbones

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 05:21:42 PM »
I use the Lumin, works flawlessly.

Jim,
A $1,200 Lumin? Haven’t found one
Nick

think used market my friend. I bought a demo from a dealer $1400 cash like new with power supply. I later upgraded to my own linear power supply

Modwright LS100, Wells Audio Innamorata Pwr, VPI Classic II/BenzMicro Glider, Open Aire Aktiv OB Speakers,  Emotiva ERC-3,Lumin D1, Burson Conductor, WireWorld, Wywires, SR, PS Audio, TWL, PS Audio

Offline Emil

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2018, 04:39:55 AM »
I'm new to streaming and a bit confused.

What does the $1200 Lumin have over the $500 Node if all you want to do is stream?
"Today I didn't even have to use my A.K.
I got to say it was a good day"
    --Ice Cube

Offline djdube525

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2018, 04:45:30 AM »

I know the wifi is a problem and pretty much, it always has been. Thats why I’ll either use an extender like Emil did or get an Eero. As to changing channels, that is not easy to understand for me. I tried  assigning a static channel one time on the ASUS with their tech support and it was so complicated that I gave up. I really need plug and play options...ease of use....if that’s even possible with routers. The last thing I want to do is spend many , many hours trying to understand the intricacies of routers.
As to the Bluesound, a Vault 2 is intriguing. I assume it has an internal smps, but presume you are very satisfied with the sound. Everything will get plugged into the Uber anyway.

What model ASUS router do you have? I can "walk you through" the process of creating a static IP via PM if you like. With that said, that won't help your connectivity issues, but will help you with eliminating the frustration of resetting up your Bluesound each time it gets booted and reconnects. BTW... I'm assuming your collection is on your PC (I forget)? Do you reboot that at all? Is your computer a MAC or Windows machine?

Another vote for the Powerline adapter - read Emil's thread. Netgear, Zyxel (what I use) are pretty solid.

Offline Nick B

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2018, 05:53:36 PM »
In my ever most humble opinion, streaming via wifi will eventually lead to frustration and I agree with others that it's unlikely that a different streamer will fix that unless you're willing to simply stream lower-bandwidth music.    I also suspect that as IOT becomes far more ubiquitous, it will only get worse.  (e.g. why would anyone need their frig on wifi or washing machine on wifi, and yet, there it is).    Far too often, I'd tweak something and think I'd finally got it working well and the next day the music would start stuttering or drop out again.

About 6 years ago I gave up trying different routers, bandwidths, etc.. and added structured wiring in my house where I wanted ethernet most.  (up to that point, running the ethernet cable down the stairs and across the hallway had an inverse correlation on marital bliss).   It wasn't a cheap investment but all streaming problems went away along with the many headaches associated with keeping wifi working for all other applications. 

Nick, if running ethernet is simply not feasible, then I'd give one of the mesh network solutions a try such as the eero that Rich pointed out.   I've heard good things about Google's as well (but have no experience with either).  There's quite a few on the market.   Google "mesh wifi".

Tom, yes frustration is quite part of my streaming experience 🤬🤬 We recently removed a huge cabinet from the living room and there’s a cable connection outlet behind it. Who knew??  Haven’t tried if it’s live or not. I had quite a few put in when we built our home some 15 years ago, but the cable company guy disconnected some as he said the signal is being split too many times. So I’m trying to figure out if i want to move the router, get the range extenders that Emil bought or go for something really appealing like the Eero that Rich uses. As we have at least three guys here who use the AC wireless gizmos with no apparent addition of line noise, I’m inclined to bite the bullet and buy the $399 Eero. Some things are worth spending money on like the Nest E thermostat I recently bought.
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline Nick B

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Re: need suggestions on streamers
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2018, 05:55:22 PM »
I use the Lumin, works flawlessly.

Jim,
A $1,200 Lumin? Haven’t found one
Nick

think used market my friend. I bought a demo from a dealer $1400 cash like new with power supply. I later upgraded to my own linear power supply

Good point, Jim. I’d still be maxxed out at $1,200
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A