Author Topic: State of the Art Power-Conditioner  (Read 2204 times)

Offline rollo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 5377
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2018, 05:23:08 PM »
Pricing stuff can be very tricky, especially for a small shop because you have to set prices that will not only cover your costs of doing business right now, but also provide you with enough cash flow to continue to run the business if it becomes successful, Because if you price your product too low you will have a hard time going back and getting customers to accept a price hike later on. And if you price to high you will drive away potential customers. It's quite a balancing act.
PREACH IT, Brother.   :thumb:

Ain't easy being a small fish in a pond full of piranas that are too cheap to pay for quality hardware.  That is why the "high end" market is so different.  We want the best value for the dollar and they want the latest and greatest.  Human psyche at its most interesting.


  ANSWER YOUR PMS you you thats what you are. I need diffussors  Tell me about trying being a dealer.

charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion

Offline Nick B

  • Administrator
  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1504
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2018, 06:10:49 PM »
Yes, I imagine pricing is very difficult. Some guys do it as a hobby and others need to make a living.  Iím a buyer and diy doesnít work for me as I lack the skillset to do it. A woodworking project would be horrible. Trust me when I tell you my speaker cabinet would look like Draculaís coffin. Iíve soldered maybe 10 times over the years and canít read a schematic.
So I look for a bargain when I can and have to trust in an expertís opinions like Dave E, whose opinion I highly value. I get some great advice on this forum thatís led me to some great information and wonderful products, and for that, Iím especially grateful.
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 8537
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2018, 06:42:18 PM »
Pricing stuff can be very tricky, especially for a small shop because you have to set prices that will not only cover your costs of doing business right now, but also provide you with enough cash flow to continue to run the business if it becomes successful, Because if you price your product too low you will have a hard time going back and getting customers to accept a price hike later on. And if you price to high you will drive away potential customers. It's quite a balancing act.
PREACH IT, Brother.   :thumb:

Ain't easy being a small fish in a pond full of piranas that are too cheap to pay for quality hardware.  That is why the "high end" market is so different.  We want the best value for the dollar and they want the latest and greatest.  Human psyche at its most interesting.

On top of that when doing production in small batches the fixed operating costs can eat you alive.
Remember, it's all about the music........

ē Nola Boxers
ē Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
ē Quicksilver Mid Monos
ē ARC SP-9
ē VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Sumiko Blue Pt. Special
ē EE Minmax DAC/Bluesound Node/Denon 2910
ē TWL Power Cords/MIT Cables

Offline dBe

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2018, 07:59:03 PM »
Pricing stuff can be very tricky, especially for a small shop because you have to set prices that will not only cover your costs of doing business right now, but also provide you with enough cash flow to continue to run the business if it becomes successful, Because if you price your product too low you will have a hard time going back and getting customers to accept a price hike later on. And if you price to high you will drive away potential customers. It's quite a balancing act.
PREACH IT, Brother.   :thumb:

Ain't easy being a small fish in a pond full of piranas that are too cheap to pay for quality hardware.  That is why the "high end" market is so different.  We want the best value for the dollar and they want the latest and greatest.  Human psyche at its most interesting.
[/

  ANSWER YOUR PMS you you thats what you are. I need diffussors  Tell me about trying being a dealer.

charles
Forwarded to Greg (Igor).  He owns that company now.  All I did was design them and bring them to market 25 years ago.

Offline rollo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 5377
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2018, 08:11:07 AM »
   Thank you Dave. Did not know thought it was your gig. 


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion

Offline rollo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 5377
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner ????
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2018, 08:12:43 AM »
  I should have put question marks after the Subject. I will have one shortly and find out how good it is.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 8537
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner ????
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2018, 12:58:43 PM »
  I should have put question marks after the Subject. I will have one shortly and find out how good it is.


charles


As always, anything can look good (or bad) on paper, but the proof is always in the listening.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 01:00:42 PM by tmazz »
Remember, it's all about the music........

ē Nola Boxers
ē Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
ē Quicksilver Mid Monos
ē ARC SP-9
ē VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Sumiko Blue Pt. Special
ē EE Minmax DAC/Bluesound Node/Denon 2910
ē TWL Power Cords/MIT Cables

Offline dBe

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2018, 07:48:39 PM »
   Thank you Dave. Did not know thought it was your gig. 


charles
No worries. It was for a long time until I couldn't juggle 3 in front and 2 behind my back.  Igor will be back to you soon.

Offline TrueAudio

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2018, 12:43:16 PM »
Try this one on for size:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8je87-smc-audio-nexus-ac-and-grounding-filter-ac-conditioners



Asking Price: $15,000.00
New Retail Price: $20,000.00

"This is the actual Michael Fremer June 2018 Stereophile review unit just returned.

This unit is built to an absolutely cost-no-object standard. It is only sold direct to client to avoid the usual distribution markups. One look at the build, and it is evident this unit is in a class of one. However, it is the total system sonic contribution and star grounding solution it represents which belongs in the best systems.

Even a cursory examination of the Nexus vs interconnects and speaker cables, (many of which cost more for one meter that the Nexus) should elicit a big question. How can the cables justify the price? The obvious answer -- they cannot. Where is the value proposition for the audiophile -- in the Nexus.

To wit:

1. Panzerholtz (Tankwood) rigid, inert, milled chassis

2. Bocchino Mariner 10 IEC connector (the world standard for sonics 10x the cost
conventional audiophile IEC's). 125 amp ready. Absolutely no current limiting. No current
limiting coils and transformers are used. Purely passive filtration via the worlds best
capacitors, Duelund CAST silver.

3. Stillpoints are integrated into the bottom of the chassis and Stillpoint isolators are used to isolate each duplex outlet.

4. Furutech outlets GTX-NCF Rhodium outlets, aluminum mounting plates and carbon
fiber dress plates

5. Enklein pure silver wiring

6. Cardas un-plated copper grounding posts

7. Pure copper buss bar internal construction

No trades. Local demo is encouraged."

Offline Nick B

  • Administrator
  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1504
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2018, 01:03:09 PM »
Try this one on for size:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8je87-smc-audio-nexus-ac-and-grounding-filter-ac-conditioners



Asking Price: $15,000.00
New Retail Price: $20,000.00

"This is the actual Michael Fremer June 2018 Stereophile review unit just returned.

This unit is built to an absolutely cost-no-object standard. It is only sold direct to client to avoid the usual distribution markups. One look at the build, and it is evident this unit is in a class of one. However, it is the total system sonic contribution and star grounding solution it represents which belongs in the best systems.

Even a cursory examination of the Nexus vs interconnects and speaker cables, (many of which cost more for one meter that the Nexus) should elicit a big question. How can the cables justify the price? The obvious answer -- they cannot. Where is the value proposition for the audiophile -- in the Nexus.

To wit:

1. Panzerholtz (Tankwood) rigid, inert, milled chassis

2. Bocchino Mariner 10 IEC connector (the world standard for sonics 10x the cost
conventional audiophile IEC's). 125 amp ready. Absolutely no current limiting. No current
limiting coils and transformers are used. Purely passive filtration via the worlds best
capacitors, Duelund CAST silver.

3. Stillpoints are integrated into the bottom of the chassis and Stillpoint isolators are used to isolate each duplex outlet.

4. Furutech outlets GTX-NCF Rhodium outlets, aluminum mounting plates and carbon
fiber dress plates

5. Enklein pure silver wiring

6. Cardas un-plated copper grounding posts

7. Pure copper buss bar internal construction

No trades. Local demo is encouraged."


Ummm....Iíll take whatever Dave is selling  :thumb:
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline P.I.

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
  • Silence is that blackness beneath the music
    • P.I. audio group, LLC
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2018, 08:54:46 PM »
Try this one on for size:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8je87-smc-audio-nexus-ac-and-grounding-filter-ac-conditioners



Asking Price: $15,000.00
New Retail Price: $20,000.00

"This is the actual Michael Fremer June 2018 Stereophile review unit just returned.

This unit is built to an absolutely cost-no-object standard. It is only sold direct to client to avoid the usual distribution markups. One look at the build, and it is evident this unit is in a class of one. However, it is the total system sonic contribution and star grounding solution it represents which belongs in the best systems.

Even a cursory examination of the Nexus vs interconnects and speaker cables, (many of which cost more for one meter that the Nexus) should elicit a big question. How can the cables justify the price? The obvious answer -- they cannot. Where is the value proposition for the audiophile -- in the Nexus.

To wit:

1. Panzerholtz (Tankwood) rigid, inert, milled chassis

2. Bocchino Mariner 10 IEC connector (the world standard for sonics 10x the cost
conventional audiophile IEC's). 125 amp ready. Absolutely no current limiting. No current
limiting coils and transformers are used. Purely passive filtration via the worlds best
capacitors, Duelund CAST silver.

3. Stillpoints are integrated into the bottom of the chassis and Stillpoint isolators are used to isolate each duplex outlet.

4. Furutech outlets GTX-NCF Rhodium outlets, aluminum mounting plates and carbon
fiber dress plates

5. Enklein pure silver wiring

6. Cardas un-plated copper grounding posts

7. Pure copper buss bar internal construction

No trades. Local demo is encouraged."


Ummm....Iíll take whatever Dave is selling  :thumb:
Nick, I'll build you something much, much better with at least as good of components for half of that money.  There are certain components that are built just because they can be that crush the performance to cost window.  Just because something can be built doesn't mean that it should be.
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline doug s.

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2018, 05:10:21 AM »
Nick, I'll build you something much, much better with at least as good of components for half of that money. 
i bet you could build something much better w/at least as good of components for one quarter of that money.  $5k?  that should provide you w/the requisite resources, no?   8)

There are certain components that are built just because they can be that crush the performance to cost window.  Just because something can be built doesn't mean that it should be.
yes, these products should be built, since people want them - they certainly are not hurting anybody.  i previously stated the reason such products are built, and why there's a market for them, but it was deemed too hot for prime time!   :rofl:

doug s.

Offline Nick B

  • Administrator
  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1504
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2018, 08:15:51 AM »
Try this one on for size:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8je87-smc-audio-nexus-ac-and-grounding-filter-ac-conditioners



Asking Price: $15,000.00
New Retail Price: $20,000.00

"This is the actual Michael Fremer June 2018 Stereophile review unit just returned.

This unit is built to an absolutely cost-no-object standard. It is only sold direct to client to avoid the usual distribution markups. One look at the build, and it is evident this unit is in a class of one. However, it is the total system sonic contribution and star grounding solution it represents which belongs in the best systems.

Even a cursory examination of the Nexus vs interconnects and speaker cables, (many of which cost more for one meter that the Nexus) should elicit a big question. How can the cables justify the price? The obvious answer -- they cannot. Where is the value proposition for the audiophile -- in the Nexus.

To wit:

1. Panzerholtz (Tankwood) rigid, inert, milled chassis

2. Bocchino Mariner 10 IEC connector (the world standard for sonics 10x the cost
conventional audiophile IEC's). 125 amp ready. Absolutely no current limiting. No current
limiting coils and transformers are used. Purely passive filtration via the worlds best
capacitors, Duelund CAST silver.

3. Stillpoints are integrated into the bottom of the chassis and Stillpoint isolators are used to isolate each duplex outlet.

4. Furutech outlets GTX-NCF Rhodium outlets, aluminum mounting plates and carbon
fiber dress plates

5. Enklein pure silver wiring

6. Cardas un-plated copper grounding posts

7. Pure copper buss bar internal construction

No trades. Local demo is encouraged."


Ummm....Iíll take whatever Dave is selling  :thumb:
Nick, I'll build you something much, much better with at least as good of components for half of that money.  There are certain components that are built just because they can be that crush the performance to cost window.  Just because something can be built doesn't mean that it should be.

Dave,
Iím happy with the Uber and will likely try your latest product one of these days. Anything beyond that isnít necessary and isnít in my budget. I do need a preamp soon, so am saving up for that
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline P.I.

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
  • Silence is that blackness beneath the music
    • P.I. audio group, LLC
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2018, 09:15:27 AM »
Nick, I made my reply based upon my observation that price beyond a certain point is more of an exercise in self than performance.  I don't live in that world.
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline Nick B

  • Administrator
  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1504
Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2018, 12:39:25 PM »
Nick, I made my reply based upon my observation that price beyond a certain point is more of an exercise in self than performance.  I don't live in that world.

Dave,
I figured as much and was kind of thinking out loud. Iím amazed at the performance of products like my used kef LS 50s for $750 and all of Garyís reasonably priced cables. I suspect that Tomís icepower 1200as amp will fall into that category as well. I sure hope youíre enjoying your trip as Iím overwhelmed by cement dust as the living room concrete pad was cracked and buckled and needed grinding. Itís even worse than I imagined it could be and I have a very vivid imagination  :roll:
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A