Author Topic: what does pressurizing a room mean  (Read 2508 times)

Offline Nick B

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2018, 09:49:51 AM »
oh, and regarding amps, mivera initially offered a basic amp w/options for ~$800; diy.  now, a standard upgraded amp is ~$1500, and a full-tilt model is ~$1800.  yes, expensive, but it has build quality and componentry better than 5-figure competition, even on the standard amp.  and, huge power.  there's a coupla 1200AS2 based amps out there that are about the same price as mivera's, but the case and componentry is nowhere close to even the standard $1500 model; it's not even up to the original $800 diy amp's standards.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=204.0

re: the folsom 7297 amp, i've bought two kits; just waiting to hive income flow again, to populate them as i want and build them out.  the research's has been done.  yes, considerably less money than the mivera's, but low power as well.  the new folsom amp kit coming out is higher power, (60wpc/120wpc - 8/4 ohms), but still nothing compared to the mivera's.  and, if you don't want to diy, i am certain you could find folk willing to build it for you for a nominal fee.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/319331-folsom-ec7293-battery-solarcell-powered-feedback-60-120w.html

doug s.

The Mivera pricing is likely more than Iíd want to spend. Reading the posts at AC, it certainly appears that everything he does is top notch. The latest posts are about the case and his insistence about top notch quality control. Seems the case vendor may have been taking some short cuts.
Now I do have a McCormack DNA 1 Gold amp modded by Steve McCormack and his partner Kris. I could likely sell it tor at least $1,500 or more. So would I want to spend $1,800 on Mivera....whose name really isnít that well known yet, and replace my known quantity McCormack at this time, I donít think so. Iíd also need to at least break even on the deal.
The folsom amp price point is much more appealing. As I mentioned, Dave really likes it and it would be great to get your input as well once you can finish yours to your standards.
Although I was thinking recently about trying a tube amp, solid state is very likely the way Iíll go. My friend Steve  and I were recently at Garyís place and Gary did some tube rolling in his Prima Luna. It sure was fun and the variations from song to song were quite interesting. If I went tube, it would be a design where the tubes arenít driven hard as I wouldnít want to retube every 2 or 3 years.
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline rollo

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2018, 10:43:32 AM »
  As I have stated before do not overlook fritz Carrera speakers $3500 list. In your set up you will not need subs with Fritz. Full bodied with a top end to write home about.

charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion

Offline Nick B

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2018, 12:01:29 PM »
  As I have stated before do not overlook fritz Carrera speakers $3500 list. In your set up you will not need subs with Fritz. Full bodied with a top end to write home about.

charles

I havenít forgotten. You are talking about his 7BE model....his top of the line I believe. Spoke with Fritz maybe a month ago. A great guy and quite the conversationalist.
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline Nick B

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2018, 08:42:31 PM »
As I continue to digress a bit from the original topic, I spoke with Fritz Heiler today and what a nice guy he is. I mentioned some speakers and he has heard my old SP Techs along with the Audience1+1 v2s and Evolution Acoustic Micro Ones. In fact, the EA designer Kevin uses the same series crossover design methodology that Fritz uses on his Carrera BEs. I did a little bit of name dropping mentioning that I knew Charles Rollo as Charles carries the Fritz. So I will likely audition the Fritz and am still thinking about the others. Iím a fan of listening to new speakers, but the idea of boxing stuff up and sending it back to the manufacturers I donít much care for. Also spoke with an EA dealer in California and he was quite a nice guy and a very straight shooter. I do have a threshhold for listening to bs, but today I thankfully didnít encounter it.
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline doug s.

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2018, 11:30:11 PM »
a couple of other ideas popped into my head regarding speakers.  aurum cantus - i have never heard them, but they get great reviews, and they do have an excellent ribbon tweeter.  and the cabinetry is gorgeous

http://cattylink.com/page231.html



and a usa dealer:
https://www.audiophile-direct.com/collections/stand-mount


and these, which i ran across, because i was searching for aurum cantus; and they use the aurum cantus ribbon tweeters:
roksan darius s1 - also fabulous looking.  and about $7k retail w/stands.


reviews:
http://hifipig.com/roksan-darius-s1-standmount-speakers/
https://www.whathifi.com/roksan/darius-s1/review
a pair on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Roksan-Darius-S1-Reference-Loudspeakers-What-HIFI-5/112849904743?epid=10015959380&hash=item1a4660e467:g:rX0AAOSwURxanDyP


then, there's piega coax standmounts; attractive in a different way.  and i know they will sound fantastic, because i have a pair of their older floorstanders, which are actually very similar, but go a few hz lower as they have dual woofers, and they also are a few db more efficient.

my piega's:


piega standmounts:

the coax 10.2's  have great specs, and the coax ribbon driver is truly amazing.  the midrange ribbon crosses over to the woofer at something like 450hz, and the midrange/tweeter coax driver x-over is at ~3.5khz.  their specs:
Recommended amplifier output - 20 - 200 Watt
Sensitivity - 90 db / W / m
Impedance - 4 ohms
Frequency range: 36 Hz - 50 kHz
Dimensions (H x W x D) - 41 x 19 x 22 cm
Weight - 13 kg
Design principle - Compact 3-way speaker
Equipment: 1 x 15 cm bass, 1 x C2 coaxial mid/tweeter
Connection - Bi-Wiring / WBT
Drawings - Aluminum cabinet, black metal grill, optional: silver grill, black anodized cabinet, white painted cabinet

on ebay (seems a bit on the spendy side, but maybe not, as they retailed for ~$7.7k):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/282793104599?rmvSB=true

on private listings (seems too good to be true?):
https://www.quoka.de/hifi-audio-tv-video-foto/boxen-lautsprecher-kopfhoerer/c7265a195202191/paar-piega-coax-10-2.html
http://www.annunci.net/firenze/audio-tv-video/piega-coax-102-speakers-2215971

if the two private listings are legit - ie: if they will accept paypal and/or a credit card, i'd just buy them if i were in your present situation.

doug s.

Offline rollo

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2018, 08:02:55 AM »
As I continue to digress a bit from the original topic, I spoke with Fritz Heiler today and what a nice guy he is. I mentioned some speakers and he has heard my old SP Techs along with the Audience1+1 v2s and Evolution Acoustic Micro Ones. In fact, the EA designer Kevin uses the same series crossover design methodology that Fritz uses on his Carrera BEs. I did a little bit of name dropping mentioning that I knew Charles Rollo as Charles carries the Fritz. So I will likely audition the Fritz and am still thinking about the others. Iím a fan of listening to new speakers, but the idea of boxing stuff up and sending it back to the manufacturers I donít much care for. Also spoke with an EA dealer in California and he was quite a nice guy and a very straight shooter. I do have a threshhold for listening to bs, but today I thankfully didnít encounter it.

  Pump some iron young Man. Not that heavy. You will not be disappointed.  :thumb:



charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion

Offline doug s.

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2018, 11:10:30 AM »
btw, i got my piega p5 mkii ltd's in july of 2007 from carlman, who "upgraded" to piega c8 ltd's.  not sure if he still has those, (afaik, he had them as recently as 2016), but he could also give you an idea of the piega house sound.

doug s.

Offline Nick B

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2018, 12:43:37 PM »
As I continue to digress a bit from the original topic, I spoke with Fritz Heiler today and what a nice guy he is. I mentioned some speakers and he has heard my old SP Techs along with the Audience1+1 v2s and Evolution Acoustic Micro Ones. In fact, the EA designer Kevin uses the same series crossover design methodology that Fritz uses on his Carrera BEs. I did a little bit of name dropping mentioning that I knew Charles Rollo as Charles carries the Fritz. So I will likely audition the Fritz and am still thinking about the others. Iím a fan of listening to new speakers, but the idea of boxing stuff up and sending it back to the manufacturers I donít much care for. Also spoke with an EA dealer in California and he was quite a nice guy and a very straight shooter. I do have a threshhold for listening to bs, but today I thankfully didnít encounter it.

  Pump some iron young Man. Not that heavy. You will not be disappointed.  :thumb:



charles

The Fritzes arenít heavy, but the Evolution Acoustics shipping weight is 198 lbs in two wooden crates. The base on the special stands on which the speakers are bolted must weigh a lot....Iím guessing 60 lbs each. So that would be a royal pita. Now that I got my Silver Sneakers card I need to head to the gym and bulk up 🏋🏻‍♂️
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline Nick B

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2018, 10:04:27 PM »
a couple of other ideas popped into my head regarding speakers.  aurum cantus - i have never heard them, but they get great reviews, and they do have an excellent ribbon tweeter.  and the cabinetry is gorgeous

http://cattylink.com/page231.html



and a usa dealer:
https://www.audiophile-direct.com/collections/stand-mount


and these, which i ran across, because i was searching for aurum cantus; and they use the aurum cantus ribbon tweeters:
roksan darius s1 - also fabulous looking.  and about $7k retail w/stands.


reviews:
http://hifipig.com/roksan-darius-s1-standmount-speakers/
https://www.whathifi.com/roksan/darius-s1/review
a pair on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Roksan-Darius-S1-Reference-Loudspeakers-What-HIFI-5/112849904743?epid=10015959380&hash=item1a4660e467:g:rX0AAOSwURxanDyP


then, there's piega coax standmounts; attractive in a different way.  and i know they will sound fantastic, because i have a pair of their older floorstanders, which are actually very similar, but go a few hz lower as they have dual woofers, and they also are a few db more efficient.

my piega's:


piega standmounts:

the coax 10.2's  have great specs, and the coax ribbon driver is truly amazing.  the midrange ribbon crosses over to the woofer at something like 450hz, and the midrange/tweeter coax driver x-over is at ~3.5khz.  their specs:
Recommended amplifier output - 20 - 200 Watt
Sensitivity - 90 db / W / m
Impedance - 4 ohms
Frequency range: 36 Hz - 50 kHz
Dimensions (H x W x D) - 41 x 19 x 22 cm
Weight - 13 kg
Design principle - Compact 3-way speaker
Equipment: 1 x 15 cm bass, 1 x C2 coaxial mid/tweeter
Connection - Bi-Wiring / WBT
Drawings - Aluminum cabinet, black metal grill, optional: silver grill, black anodized cabinet, white painted cabinet

on ebay (seems a bit on the spendy side, but maybe not, as they retailed for ~$7.7k):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/282793104599?rmvSB=true

on private listings (seems too good to be true?):
https://www.quoka.de/hifi-audio-tv-video-foto/boxen-lautsprecher-kopfhoerer/c7265a195202191/paar-piega-coax-10-2.html
http://www.annunci.net/firenze/audio-tv-video/piega-coax-102-speakers-2215971

if the two private listings are legit - ie: if they will accept paypal and/or a credit card, i'd just buy them if i were in your present situation.

doug s.

Doug,
You sure come up with some interesting stuff in your research. Buying something like the used Piegas
would be a big gamble based on my recent history with the Nolas and single drivers. Itís a big plus though that you and Carlman both have/had Piegas. I will mention that my max budget for speakers is $3,500.
Now, the Aurum Cantus V30s look very interesting and the price is right. I read two reviews .....
the one from Enjoy the Music more glowing than the 2nd. The 2nd reviewer had minor negative comments on the midrange and bass. On that review, I kept thinking he still hadnt found the right amp for them. The quality of the drivers appears excellent. The price includes shipping AND a 60 day return policy. The quality and appearance are excellent. So this China based based product with an American distributor looks like the real deal. I do wonder if adding the right sub would give even better results.
Regarding the REL subs I was looking at, I still like the smaller footprint and I very much like how the sub is designed. By that I mean that the REL has a speakon connector that has three wires...two + and one -  Each + is connected to the + terminal on the R L of the amp. The - is connected to either the R or L - Now, I like that quite a bit as it appears other subs require that the speakers wires connect to the sub and imo thatís a big pita..at least for me. The REL also offers wireless for the sub. Now thatís another very convenient feature. I do have a small living room, but the ability to not have to route a long wire direct to the sub is nice.
Another thing regarding your recommendations on cheap subs. Does it really make sense to use one or two cheap subs when partnering with speakers that use high quality drivers. I ask because I have no experience with subs. Never...nada.
So let me know what you think.
Thanks,
Nick
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 10:12:26 PM by Nick B »
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline tmazz

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2018, 07:04:57 AM »
Nick be very careful with cheap subs. There are a lot of cheap subs out there that are aimed at the Home Theater market, which has much looser SQ requirements than we have for music. In a HT system the sub pretty much  is used to provide impact. It doesn't need to be of the highest quality as long as it gets you attention. For example, when you are just reproducing the dinosaur thumps as the T-Tex is chasing someone in Jurassic Park or explosions during the attack scenes in  Pearl Harbor sound quality can be secondary to the visceral effect. As long as the bass shakes the floor and hits you in the chest it will do just fine (for the most part.) Many of these subs to just fine when watching movies, but fall far short when used to reproduce music. In sound effects the impact of the boom is the primary objective. However in a high end audio situation we want much more. When listening to tympani drums in and orchestral piece pure impact is not enough we also wand to hear speed and articulation in that we should distinctly be able to hear the impact of the drum hit separate from the resonance of the drum itself and be able to track the rise and fall time of the sound. When listening to something like a Ray Brown bass solo we want the resolution to hear all of the individual note stand on there own instead of  being mushy and just running into one another.

The bottom line here is that cheap bass is easy, but rarely very good and good bass is hard to do and in most case hard equates to $$$.

IMO opinion while stereo subs is always a desirable situation, you would be much better off with a single high quality sub as opposed to a pair of cheap ones.

Also keep in mind that subs are strange creatures and there optimal placement rarely coincides with what out other halves would consider pleasing from a decorating point of view. So if you don't have a dedicated room where you would have the freedom to place the subs anywhere they need to be, you might just be better off having one and keep the disagreements to a minimum. As someone who move from a house with a dedicated listening space that was all mine to do what I wanted with to a house where the only place to put the system is in the Living Room I am dealing with this kind of issue all the time not only with subs, but also with speaker placement in general, acoustic treatments etc. I deal with this kind of thing all the time.

I ended up getting a pair of Carver True Subwoofer Super Jrs which are small and I can tuck them somewhat out of sight. I know there are places in the room that they would sound better, but...........

I actually started out getting one, but a few months after I got the first one a second one popped up on eBay for a stupidly cheap price so I couldn't not give it a try.  :roll:

Had it not been for that I would have been OK with one.

Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline doug s.

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2018, 10:15:07 AM »
i agree w/tmazz, up to a point.  because there are decent subs that are inexpensive, but not cheap.  i know.  my main system utilizes a pair of passive vmps larger subs, with separate amps and an active x-over.  the subs are inexpensive for what they are, but they're not "cheap".  on the other end of the spectrum are a pair of yamaha yst-305 servo-subs that i have.  these active subs have a pair of 8" drivers, and are (were) *really* inexpensive.  but, they can be used in a quality audio system, in a smaller room.  or even in a bigger room, if you're not going to overdrive them.  i used my yamaha subs in a 16x24 room w/a pair of coincident victory's with extremely satisfactory results.  but, i had the sub's internal crossover it its highest setting - 140hz - and used an outboard electronic x-over set at 60hz.  was the sound as tight and low and deep as it would have been w/my vmps subs?  of course not, but it was tighter and lower and better than the victory's run w/o them.  and the victory's woofers were happy not to see frequencies below 60hz.

i agree quality is better than quantity.  but in the case of subs, it's better to have a pair of *quality* smaller subs than a quality single larger sub.  it simply loads the room better, and unless the "smaller" subs are a *lot* smaller, you'll end up with similar low frequency level and spl's, a smoother response, and better soundstaging.  a single summed-signal to a mono sub, in a best case scenario, will degrade the soundstage only a tiny bit.  stereo subs will improve the soundstage.  and, if "waf factor" is an issue, it's actually much easier to get decent sound w/subs in less than ideal locations, if you have two, then if you have only one.  because, w/one sub, it really has to be in the right spot in a room, for good integration.

i believe the less expensive subs i mentioned - ie: those from dayton audio - are certainly good enough to be used in a quality set-up in a smaller room.  and i am sorry - imo, the rel subs are way over-priced at any level of quality.  that $500 rel tzero is a complete joke.  maybe it's nice for a bedroom system, or a computer system, but you could still get as good or better results for half the price, if that's how you wanted to use it.

can you do better than dayton audio?  certainly!  for $500, buy the rythmik L12.  better yet, buy a pair.  splurge!

regarding your comments about the rel's features, why would you ever want to run speaker cable to a powered sub?  you want to run a line-level output from your preamp (or a line out on an integrated out) and connect a powered sub that way. 

me, personally, i prefer using an active x-over and being able to high-pass the main speakers as well as crossing over the subs.  a typical smaller 2-way or 3-way speaker will always sound better if it's not having to deal with frequencies below 60-80hz.  whatever possible sonic degradation introduced by a quality active x-over is insignificant when compared to relieving a small woofer from seeing low frequencies - it will perform much better throughout the rest of its range.  of course, you can still run your mains full-range; you just need to be more judicious in setting the level and x-over frequency of the powered sub.  no doubt, adding a crossover is not simplifying things, but it will give better results, imo.

so, back to the rel - sure, it's petite, at 8.5 x 9.5 x 10.5 in.  but, if you can fit that, you can certainly fit the bigger, but still not monstrous rythmik L12, at its 14 x 14 x 15.5".  and forget price, the rythmik will stomp all over it performance-wise. 

ymmv,

doug s.
ps - why the insistence on monitors?  many floorstanders have a narrow profile, and take up no more floor space than monitors on stands.  certainly there's dozens of floorstanders that weigh less than the 98lb es's!  ;) )
pps - just so you know, i don't even own a tv, let alone a h-t system, so i am not into subs for the "thump"   :D
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 10:16:59 AM by doug s. »

Offline Nick B

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2018, 11:54:36 AM »
I appreciate both comments about the subs. Iím always learning and picking up new information. As Iíve mentioned previously, I want a small footprint and limited weight in all my audio decisions. Because of a family medical situation....my wife and brother are dealing with cancer, I may have to move at some point in the future and the more I can handle and do myself, the better. Because of my back surgery, I try and be smart about moving and lifting things. So itís easier for me to lift my 65  lb McCormack amp than it is to lift the 40 lb Nola sub that I had. Itís easier for me to lift and maneuver a monitor than a floorstander. The Nola is larger in size and therefore makes it harder. Smaller is what I want and thatís not going to change.
Trying to make these decisions about speakers and subs is why I post here and call the manufacturers. REL advised to not use their smallest sub and go with their T7i.
As to how to hook up subs, I really donít know. As I had quite the complication from knee surgery, Gary drove up and hooked up the Nola for me. I thought the speaker cables went to the sub and then more speaker cables to the amp. Thatís what I remember. I was however quite sick and it appears Iím way off base on that.
 Donít get me wrong, I love a great bargain, but Iím trying to make a purchase for the long term. At this point in my life, Iím not into tinkering and replacing equipment every one to two years. Iíd like to enjoy stuff. Life is short. And if I need to pay more to accomplish that, i will pay it. So I canít buy the excellent drivers and build my own cabinet and be done for $1,000. However, I may be able to replace my McCormack with a Folsom amp for a great price based on what Danny and Dave E are saying.
To conclude, Iíve learned so much more about audio in the last two years and much of that is from this forum. Gary has made me icís and power cords that are superb. Daveís Uber is phenomenal. So
itís an especially fun time to be in this hobby
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline doug s.

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2018, 02:58:51 PM »
regarding rel subs, the t7i retails for ~$1200, and is almost as large as the rythmik.

if i were offered a rythmik L12, or a rel s3/sho, (retail $2100), i'd take the rythmik w/o even thinking twice.  (of course, if it were for resale and not for use, i'd take the rel, sell it, and buy two L12's, and still have money left over.  ;)

regarding size and having to lift things, regardless of what you end up buying, or even if you swear off stereo equipment altogether, get yourself a decent hand truck.  especially w/your back issues.  especially if you're going to be moving.  or even if you're not moving, and have a perfect back.

i've had a hand truck for years; convertible to a dolly.  mine was like this:
https://www.uhaul.com/MovingSupplies/Moving-lifting-tools/Hand-Truck-Dual-Application?id=8957


i recently gave it to my brother-in-law, who needed it for a move; i replaced it for $30, w/one of these i found on c/l:
https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/519033-130511

of course, mine isn't shiny and new like that one!   :rofl:

regarding the folsom amps, yes, i am anxious to get mine going; some folks have sold some extremely expensive amps after putting the folsom 7297 amp in their system.

doug s.

ps - i was in the kitchen earlier today (26x28 w/vaulted ceiling).  i was giving the little kitchen rig a workout, having just replaced the hk 18 that was operating as a receiver w/its built-in 4wpc amp.  now we're talking - a 25wpc rawsonte chip amp, with an audio alchemy dlc preamp.  with the sealed custom dillon acoustics ego's (frequency drops off at ~75hz) and the yamaha yst-sw305's bringing up the bottom, the sound was sweeeet, listening to radio paradise's 320kbps aac feed thru grace internet tuna outputted to heavily modified art di/o dac.  i also had little feat playing yesterday, on the vinyl rig. ;)  sound gets to the kitchen rig via the tape outs from the main living room system. decent tight bass, too - no thumpy mush. :thumb:


Offline tmazz

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2018, 09:38:33 PM »
Doug I don't disagree withe you "up to a point" at all. I was just speaking in generalities, but I always leave room for the possibility of a product that just performs was about it'' prioce point. They are rare, but they're out there.

But I think that any of us who have been in this hobby for any length of time develop a sense of what can generally be expected out of products  selling at various price points and I was just talking in general about what you could expect from most of the subs at the lower end of the price spectrum vs what you can get by spending a bit more money. I was speaking about lower priced subs as a class and did not mean to imply that everything in that general price vicinity would sound that was.

By all means keep looking for those golden nuggets that play way outside of their leagues. Hey, that's what we do as audiophiles, try to get the best performance we can given out system budgets. and finding that great bargain piece is just like hitting that perfect gold drive. I may only happen once in a blue moon, but the possibility of it happening again is what keeps us coming back.
Remember, it's all about the music........

ē Nola Boxers
ē Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
ē Quicksilver Mid Monos
ē ARC SP-9
ē VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Sumiko Blue Pt. Special
ē EE Minmax DAC/Bluesound Node/Denon 2910
ē TWL Power Cords/MIT Cables

Offline doug s.

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Re: what does pressurizing a room mean
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2018, 10:14:11 PM »
tmazz, on the opposite end of the spectrum are companies with high prices, where the only advantage you get is to boast how much money you spent!   8)

doug s.