Author Topic: Steve, great post!  (Read 1470 times)

Offline Brap

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Re: Steve, great post!
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2018, 09:45:42 AM »
Dread the day I have to move my 1950's Jensen Imperial which is on the 2nd floor. Mahogany is heavy stuff
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Offline steve

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Re: Steve, great post!
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2018, 10:45:10 AM »
I hear you all. My speakers are ~80lbs, can't get them down from the 2nd floor either. Luckily the monoblocks are only 25lbs or so each, 11A is 15lbs (NO chokes used! See my White Papers http://www.sasaudiolabs.com/sasaudio.htm ).

Dbe, good luck on your newer venture of smaller etc. At least you'll be able to carry the equipment to someone who can update those, if that is necessary.

Nick, yikes 80lb TT. Anyone know a good hernia doc?  :rofl:

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 11:03:17 AM by steve »
Pre/Amp/ICs are the only components that can be tested for accuracy/naturalness.

Steve Sammet (retired)

SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Preamplifier
SAS Audio 25 W Triode Amp
Test Speakers 20-20khz
SAS Audio ICs
10 parallel 18 gauge wires

Offline tmazz

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Re: Steve, great post!
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2018, 08:56:12 AM »
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline rollo

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Re: Steve, great post!
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2018, 11:03:37 AM »
  I have learned over the years that simple not simpler is better. Once I decided that sound stage scale was not  one ofmy most important criteria my system has evolved to single driver 102db efficient speakers with built in sub to 18HZ.
  This allows me more choices in amplification from flea Watt to Mega Watt. I agree that an active preamp is key as it is the heart of the system. However lately some integrated designs have altered by view.
  Nelson Pass's research of Lowther type drivers has gone against common acceptance that voltage rather than current best suits that driver type. Hence the First Watt F7.
  No engineer here just ears incorporated. To my ears he may just be correct. Then I put in a Lamm SET ML2 [ 32W] and now rethink everything.
   Who is right who is wrong ? Let your ears determine that.


charles
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Offline steve

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Re: Steve, great post!
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2018, 03:57:10 PM »
  I have learned over the years that simple not simpler is better. Once I decided that sound stage scale was not  one ofmy most important criteria my system has evolved to single driver 102db efficient speakers with built in sub to 18HZ.
  This allows me more choices in amplification from flea Watt to Mega Watt. I agree that an active preamp is key as it is the heart of the system. However lately some integrated designs have altered by view.
  Nelson Pass's research of Lowther type drivers has gone against common acceptance that voltage rather than current best suits that driver type. Hence the First Watt F7.
  No engineer here just ears incorporated. To my ears he may just be correct. Then I put in a Lamm SET ML2 [ 32W] and now rethink everything.
   Who is right who is wrong ? Let your ears determine that.

charles

I think I understand, especially with so many different brands, designs, and advertising. How does one find the best for them without auditioning so many components/systems. I have to admit I really feel for the public since all manufacrturers claim the best. But which ones fulfills the desires of each individual. How do we each arrive at that position.

I just heard some expressions, that some like all the instruments to blend together, such as in a live audience hall. Another expresses he wishes to "see" around each instrument and voice. If the instrument to appear brighter, while another likes fuller. Some like the inner detail of the studio/venue to shine through, while another likes it to sound as if the instruments are in the room, so not so much actual inner detail in the recording venue.

I, like you, have heard the phrase, simple but not too simple. To me, I think it means a system needs to be as simple as possible, but if made simpler than one desires, starts to lose quality, or options, that one wishes.

I agree the preamplifier is most important since it has to handle so many sources, and handles the lowest signal levels (except the phono stage) Rectification effects of different contact materials affect the signal quality more than at higher signal levels.

As far as amplifiers, I have somewhat of an advantage in that I can run special listening tests to obtain output the same as input. So then I just need to work on my test speakers (4+ years now) to satisfy my sonic desires, which I am very close. Of course there can be compromises, like 86-87db/watt sensitivity, but the rest of my goals are met.

Some day I would like to design a transformerless head phone amplifier using small signal tubes. If nothing else, just to see how it turns out.

Kind of ranting on,,, about it for now.

steve
Pre/Amp/ICs are the only components that can be tested for accuracy/naturalness.

Steve Sammet (retired)

SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Preamplifier
SAS Audio 25 W Triode Amp
Test Speakers 20-20khz
SAS Audio ICs
10 parallel 18 gauge wires

Offline P.I.

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Re: Steve, great post!
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2018, 05:51:11 PM »
Yep, I'm with you, Steve.  I very much am in the simple is better camp, but first simple has to do the job it is intended to do. There is a point in design processes that we come to - does it that sounds great, but with them caveat of... is it the best it can sound or what if I can improve it with 'X'?  If the "what if" doesn't sound better then the last iteration is the best.  Simple designs need to be revisited when superior components become available, just to see (hear) what they may bring to the table.

I'll 'fess up.  I'm a triode gain stage into an SET kind of guy.  Gotta be the "right" components, though. m I've had more than enough hyper detail to last me 3 lifetimes.

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Offline steve

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Re: Steve, great post!
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2018, 05:49:00 PM »
Yep, I'm with you, Steve.  I very much am in the simple is better camp, but first simple has to do the job it is intended to do. There is a point in design processes that we come to - does it that sounds great, but with them caveat of... is it the best it can sound or what if I can improve it with 'X'?  If the "what if" doesn't sound better then the last iteration is the best.  Simple designs need to be revisited when superior components become available, just to see (hear) what they may bring to the table.

I'll 'fess up.  I'm a triode gain stage into an SET kind of guy.  Gotta be the "right" components, though. m I've had more than enough hyper detail to last me 3 lifetimes.

I stumbled on to a venue that causes the FR to be really good down to the deepest bass. I think a description might be helpful to those who wish to build a room mostly devoid of deep bass resonances. Not perfect, but I think pretty good. Paneling all around inside the apartment.

My actual listening room has a weak wall, not much there, then a bedroom/concrete/wall/outside. The other side has a concrete wall, then hallway. Behind the speakers, the wall is concrete block with outside beyond. The opposite end also has a block concrete wall. Remember, paneling on all inside walls. Below my carpeted floor is a long garage which is also below the other apartment. Above my ceiling tile is an A frame roof. The concrete blocks do not go above the ceiling tile, so the A frame is rather large.

With this physicality, the upper bass, mids, highs "see" typical walls and reflections. However, the mid to low bass sees three concrete block walls of the room, then adjacent room (with concrete wall/outside). The ceiling sees an A frame space. The bass passes through the floor to the long garage. The losses appear to be just about right to not only lower any resonant frequency, but also absorb some of the energy. The bass seems pretty flat with no "one note boom".

It is interesting that if I open the bathroom door, the bass lessens noticeably. Closing the simple door is enough to increase the bass, but not any boominess.

If I understand you correctly, I think we agree that the electronics can make or break a system almost, or even just as much as a speaker. I found, through special listening tests, that electronics can be as far off as speakers, from specialized listening tests, just as much as speakers.

cheers

steve
Pre/Amp/ICs are the only components that can be tested for accuracy/naturalness.

Steve Sammet (retired)

SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Preamplifier
SAS Audio 25 W Triode Amp
Test Speakers 20-20khz
SAS Audio ICs
10 parallel 18 gauge wires