Author Topic: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap  (Read 1792 times)

Offline rollo

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Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« on: September 15, 2017, 08:13:09 AM »
   There is disagreement about using bypass caps. Where would one use these ? Speaker crossover ? Electonics ? How can there be a universal size for bypass. Thought it was 10% of value.
   A buddy installed them on a Duelund CAST 35uf cap in his outboard crossover. Bigger, cleaner and more transparent. The value so small I never thought we would hear any difference. Surprise, surprise.
   Could Steve or Bill Baker chime in please. Or anyone else who knows.


charles
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Offline P.I.

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 12:27:41 PM »
   There is disagreement about using bypass caps. Where would one use these ? Speaker crossover ? Electonics ? How can there be a universal size for bypass. Thought it was 10% of value.
   A buddy installed them on a Duelund CAST 35uf cap in his outboard crossover. Bigger, cleaner and more transparent. The value so small I never thought we would hear any difference. Surprise, surprise.
   Could Steve or Bill Baker chime in please. Or anyone else who knows.


charles
Do I know?  Only subjectively.  I have tried to measure the changes and I don't think I have a sensitive enough )-scope or audio editing rig.  The editor I use is only good to 96K so... 

I have never heard a downside to bypass caps.  Acouple if times the addition produced iffy changes, but most of the time I have found them to be beneficial.  I typically do the John Curl method: 10%... 100 + 10 + 1 +.1 to infinity and beyond  8)  Often I'll use whatever I have that is close.

Recently I found that using bypass caps on Folsom's 7297 amp was extremely effective.  Ther output cap chose was a Jantzen 2.2ufd.  I tried several different 0.1ufd as bypasses and settled on the Solen (me that said I would never use a Solen again  :roll: ) Silver Sound 0.1ufd.  Added depth, and an overall better sense of space = soundstage.  Didn't sound bright, just sounded mo' bettah.

I always use bypass caps on power supplies FWIW.

YMMV, after all: it's audio.
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Offline Folsom

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 03:07:05 PM »
Sometimes they just add a bunch of RF. BUT that might be just what you want, because it elevates low level information.

Offline dBe

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 09:43:38 PM »
Sometimes they just add a bunch of RF. BUT that might be just what you want, because it elevates low level information.
And sometimes not.  "Let things ears be the arbiter!"

Or whatever  :D

Offline doug s.

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2017, 01:39:37 PM »
hi jerry ,

i am thinking of using the audyn cap true copper max's in my folsum 7297 build.  what do you think about still using the MKP1837 bypass caps?

thanks!

doug s.
Sometimes they just add a bunch of RF. BUT that might be just what you want, because it elevates low level information.

Offline P.I.

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 12:26:37 PM »
hi jerry ,

i am thinking of using the audyn cap true copper max's in my folsum 7297 build.  what do you think about still using the MKP1837 bypass caps?

thanks!

doug s.

  Doug, the proof is in the pudding or so it is said.  That tweak is something that can be easily implemented and reversed, so I would give them a try.  For a buck a piece, it's a no brainer for me.    :thumb:
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Offline rollo

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2017, 11:41:23 AM »
  Doug the Duelund is a killer. We just put them in a 35uf cap for the Analysis speaker and the result was truly staggering. yes probably too expensive for your consideration though. Not meaning your cheap BTW.

charles
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Offline doug s.

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2017, 05:35:20 PM »
i am up for something better than the mkp1837's, and i've been investigating film/foil bypass caps.  but you're right, cheap or not, i am not going to be spending $100/cap on bypass caps.

doug s.
  Doug the Duelund is a killer. We just put them in a 35uf cap for the Analysis speaker and the result was truly staggering. yes probably too expensive for your consideration though. Not meaning your cheap BTW.

charles

Offline richidoo

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2017, 06:42:26 PM »
i am up for something better than the mkp1837's,

Those are dreadfully bad! I remember the thread by Nagys on AC about those. They are the worst caps I've ever tried!

A really good super cheap cap worth trying is MKT1813.

Offline doug s.

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2017, 09:09:41 PM »
i am up for something better than the mkp1837's,

Those are dreadfully bad! I remember the thread by Nagys on AC about those. They are the worst caps I've ever tried!

A really good super cheap cap worth trying is MKT1813.
actually, most people really like the mkp 1837.  (did you try them in loudspeaker x-over or as a bypass in an electronics piece?)  the mkt1813 is also metallized; i was thinking about using a film/foil cap, like the ero kp1832. or similar by philips or siemens...

doug s.

Offline P.I.

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 04:01:50 PM »
i am up for something better than the mkp1837's,

Those are dreadfully bad! I remember the thread by Nagys on AC about those. They are the worst caps I've ever tried!

A really good super cheap cap worth trying is MKT1813.
actually, most people really like the mkp 1837.  (did you try them in loudspeaker x-over or as a bypass in an electronics piece?)  the mkt1813 is also metallized; i was thinking about using a film/foil cap, like the ero kp1832. or similar by philips or siemens...

doug s.
DSoug.  What is your voltage application?

For anything under 400VDC  I have found the el cheapo Dayton film and foils to be really good.  They sound better than they should at the price.  Stupid cheap and very transparent in "most" applications.

https://b2b.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=dayton+film+and+foil&sitesearch=true

I like bargains in audio.  I use these a LOT in guitar amps, FWIW.
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Offline doug s.

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 05:14:00 PM »
i am up for something better than the mkp1837's,

Those are dreadfully bad! I remember the thread by Nagys on AC about those. They are the worst caps I've ever tried!

A really good super cheap cap worth trying is MKT1813.
actually, most people really like the mkp 1837.  (did you try them in loudspeaker x-over or as a bypass in an electronics piece?)  the mkt1813 is also metallized; i was thinking about using a film/foil cap, like the ero kp1832. or similar by philips or siemens...

doug s.
DSoug.  What is your voltage application?

For anything under 400VDC  I have found the el cheapo Dayton film and foils to be really good.  They sound better than they should at the price.  Stupid cheap and very transparent in "most" applications.

https://b2b.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=dayton+film+and+foil&sitesearch=true

I like bargains in audio.  I use these a LOT in guitar amps, FWIW.
those look ok.  but i think i am going to try the rifa pfe 216 polystyrene caps.  a bit more spendy than the daytons, but still dirt cheap.

thanks,

doug s.

Offline Response Audio

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2017, 02:43:52 PM »
Hi Charles,
 I have been using bypass caps since I started designing gear. The only place I do not like them is on a coupling cap in a tube amplifier. Most tube amps us a smaller value as a coupling capacitor and you're better offer just going with a high quality cap from the begnning. Will likely cost you less than putting an expensive bypass cap on.

Power suppies - Always when electrolytics are used. There are ratios to determine the "right" size but they usually end up being to large to even fit in an enclosure. "My" rule is to fit the biggest poly cap you can onto an electrolytic. Just be sure to be at least the same voltage or larger.

Preamp coupling - This is dependant on the quality and sound of the cap already in place here. I have tried bypassing DynamiCaps with high quality Teflon units. While it sounded great, it took away from the sound I was after with the DynamiCap in the first place. A good Teflon bypassing something along the lines of a Clarity Cap or similar always provided excellent results for me.

Same goes for speaker crossovers. Not every can afford a Duelund capacitor. They are not cheap. However if you can afford one, dont put a bypass on it :duh You will take away from the sound they are known for.
I have always bypassed the high filter capacitors in speakers.

I wont tell you what are the best capacitors to use for bypass units as everyone is going to have their own opinion and preference. Like everything else in this hobby of hours, let your ears be the judge.

For the record, there are both technical and sonic benefits in using bypass caps in many applications.
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Offline rollo

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 09:16:50 AM »
Thanks Bill. Helpful.

charles
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Offline dBe

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Re: Duelund Universal Bypass Cap
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2017, 09:59:50 PM »
I have always bypassed the high filter capacitors in speakers.

I wont tell you what are the best capacitors to use for bypass units as everyone is going to have their own opinion and preference. Like everything else in this hobby of hours, let your ears be the judge.

For the record, there are both technical and sonic benefits in using bypass caps in many applications.

+1 on everything said in the previous post, but especially in the power supply electrolytics.  Gotta have the benefits of lower impedance and HF optimization. 

The final flavor of speaker systems HF can be fine tuned between sweet and analytical with 10% of the value.  Get the detail and articulation with the primary cap and tweak to final sound with the bypass cap.  Problem is a lot of people will not endure the time necessary for the bypass to get happy.

Patience in all things audio.

Sucks, but a good thing in the end.