Author Topic: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?  (Read 1368 times)

Offline rollo

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How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« on: March 28, 2017, 11:12:41 AM »
   A whole system conditioner or isolation transformer, multiple conditioners. Both ?
   Then dedicated circuits one or several ? Should all power cords be of the same manf ?
    I know the answer do you. Post away.


charles
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Offline tmazz

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2017, 12:15:58 PM »
Ideally I would go for multiple dedicated lines. One for all of my digital components to isolate the noise they generate, one for my line level components that pretty much draw a constant load and at least one of the power amps (and possibly more depending on how many you have (mono blocks or added sub amps) and how much they each draw.

I currently have all TWC power cords, not because I want to have consistency, but because they turned out to work best in each situation.

Likewise I can see where different types of conditioners could work better in different situations, or there could be a single unit out there that does it all, you just have to try and see what works for you, both performance and budget wise.
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Quicksilver Mid Monos
ARC SP-9
VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Sumiko Blue Pt. Special
EE Minmax DAC/Bluesound Node/Denon 2910
TWL Power Cords/MIT Cables

Offline TomS

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2017, 03:58:21 PM »
None! I still have an Uberbuss and variety of manly power cords (TWL, Kaplan) laying around but don't need any of them now.

Thank you Vinnie Rossi LIO  :thumb:
Vinnie Rossi LIO AVC Tube stage/phono/DAC/power amp, TAD Evolution One's, Sonore microRendu, Trans-Fi Salvation TT, T3Pro arm, Miyajima Kansui cart

Online mresseguie

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2017, 03:30:11 AM »
Charles,

That's an interesting way to phrase it, "I know the answer. Do you?"

Of course I know the answer. My answer is only applicable to my situation.

My Uberbuss is enough for my needs in my system in the US. I so far haven't felt the need for it in my system in Taiwan, but that could some day change.

One of these days I'll fill out my TWL loom with a pair of XLR interconnects.

Michael
Daedalus Audio Apollos; Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R
Gustard X20u DAC (stock)
Don Sachs Model 2 preamp
Don Sachs Kootenay 120 KT88 amp; Nuprime ST-10 SS amp
TWL loom
PI Audio UberBUSS, DigiBUSS, uber-MiniBUSS
PI Audio USB cable
Mac Mini=>Tidal

Offline jimbones

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2017, 06:54:19 AM »
I have 2 dedicated lines, one for high power (amps) and the other for low level stuff (pre, cd, TT etc). I am NOT putting in a 3rd  :duh
Modwright LS 100 Pre, KWA 100SE Pwr Amp, VPI Classic II/BenzMicro Glider, DIY Hybrid OB Speakers, Velodyne HGS12, Emotiva ERC-3 CDP, Burson Conductor DAC, DH Labs, Wywires, PS Audio, Ultrafi USB, TWL, PS Audio PPP

Offline P.I.

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 02:25:10 PM »
None! I still have an Uberbuss and variety of manly power cords (TWL, Kaplan) laying around but don't need any of them now.

Thank you Vinnie Rossi LIO  :thumb:
Vinnie has changed the audio world in a very good way.  Kudos to him and very cool for all of his customers. !!!
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline TomS

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2017, 03:44:20 PM »
None! I still have an Uberbuss and variety of manly power cords (TWL, Kaplan) laying around but don't need any of them now.

Thank you Vinnie Rossi LIO  :thumb:
Vinnie has changed the audio world in a very good way.  Kudos to him and very cool for all of his customers. !!!
Well I realized I have to confess to using a TWL cord and the Uberbuss just for the DHT filament supply, as unfortunately it isn't supercap powered (yet!) like the rest of the LIO. It does sound very good!
Vinnie Rossi LIO AVC Tube stage/phono/DAC/power amp, TAD Evolution One's, Sonore microRendu, Trans-Fi Salvation TT, T3Pro arm, Miyajima Kansui cart

Offline rollo

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2017, 08:43:31 AM »
I have 2 dedicated lines, one for high power (amps) and the other for low level stuff (pre, cd, TT etc). I am NOT putting in a 3rd  :duh

   I'm looking to have installed {4} lines off a sub panel. One 30A for amps, 0ne 20A for preamp, TT and BSG QOL. One for 15A for digital and one extra. Now using one 15A dedicated line foe all.
  Dave is this overkill ? I am using Two Ubers, one for analog one for digital with a Digibuss plugged into one dedicated 15A line. Using two Ubers made a difference over one for me.
   What size breakers and for what do you recco Dave ?


charles



charles
 
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Offline mdconnelly

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2017, 05:42:08 AM »
After many years of tweaks, cables and system changes, I've come to realize how important the role of electrical quality plays in sound quality.

I just had Dave build me a new 10 outlet Uber with his DigiBuss integrated for 4 of the outlets along with Pete's TWL Silver Statement power cord feeding it.   Dave also added some new magic to address RFI/EMI.  I'll let Dave explain that but I will say that my system has never sounded better.

Thank you Dave!




Offline P.I.

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2017, 02:19:17 PM »
After many years of tweaks, cables and system changes, I've come to realize how important the role of electrical quality plays in sound quality.

I just had Dave build me a new 10 outlet Uber with his DigiBuss integrated for 4 of the outlets along with Pete's TWL Silver Statement power cord feeding it.   Dave also added some new magic to address RFI/EMI.  I'll let Dave explain that but I will say that my system has never sounded better.

Thank you Dave!




And who is the dumbass for not taking pictures?  That would be me.  😕

Anyway, what I built for Mike is the fruit of 8 years of work on the same basic platform (da BUSS).  I have made about 30 changes to the initial design over the years to produce the best possible product.  No 'set it and forget' it here.

Pete's cables, in particular the TWL 7+ Uber cable, are things of wonder when paired with the latest iteration of the UberBUSS.  I am so glad that Pete was placed in my life.  Great friend and a "hound for the sound".  I've watched the development of his cables over the last few years and I can't think of another "no brainer cable" out there.

Enjoy. Mike. It gets better for a while longer.

I love this business.  Thank you, Mike!
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline rollo

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2017, 08:05:59 AM »
I have 2 dedicated lines, one for high power (amps) and the other for low level stuff (pre, cd, TT etc). I am NOT putting in a 3rd  :duh

   I'm looking to have installed {4} lines off a sub panel. One 30A for amps, 0ne 20A for preamp, TT and BSG QOL. One for 15A for digital and one extra. Now using one 15A dedicated line foe all.
  Dave is this overkill ? I am using Two Ubers, one for analog one for digital with a Digibuss plugged into one dedicated 15A line. Using two Ubers made a difference over one for me.
   What size breakers and for what do you recco Dave ?


charles



charles
 

 Dave ?

charles
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 contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net
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Offline P.I.

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2017, 02:22:09 PM »
I have 2 dedicated lines, one for high power (amps) and the other for low level stuff (pre, cd, TT etc). I am NOT putting in a 3rd  :duh

   I'm looking to have installed {4} lines off a sub panel. One 30A for amps, 0ne 20A for preamp, TT and BSG QOL. One for 15A for digital and one extra. Now using one 15A dedicated line foe all.
  Dave is this overkill ? I am using Two Ubers, one for analog one for digital with a Digibuss plugged into one dedicated 15A line. Using two Ubers made a difference over one for me.
   What size breakers and for what do you recco Dave ?


charles



charles
 

 Dave ?

charles
Sorry, Bud.  Had my head up some docs butt for a while.

I generally recommend 2 home runs to the power entry.  One for analog and the other for digital.  The exception to the that is when there are 2 humongous monoblocs for amplification.  Then it is 4.  Get huge amps on their own circuit.  That 30A will certainly do the trick!

Problems arise when using sub-panels and the grounding and branch circuit interactions.  That is pretty much why I went to flea power and high sensitivity.

You are asking me if this is overkill.  Nope.  Git 'er dun...

First, read this:  https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Choosing+Household+Wiring+for+Low+EMF&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Great info for audio boneheads like us.  Make sure that the wire is twisted.  Some manufacturers only twist stranded.  In this case, stranded wire is OK.  The lists make all of this work.

I've always been a Square D or Siemens fan, but it seems like there are a lot of cheapie even in those lines.  Consult your electrician and tell him what you are looking for.

Some other suggestions:

Use silver bearing paste on the connections.  I use this:

https://www.americanelements.com/silver-paste-7440-22-4

I have no idea what the cost is... it was given to me by a customer.

Another thing is to use a good contact enhancer.  I use Jena Labs.  One bottle is a lifetime supply. 

MAKE SURE the copper is clean and oxide free before you begin.

Use the biggest Cu you can afford.

The wall receptacles will certainly establish the sonic baseline for the system.  Anything that comes after that is shaping "that" sound.  I have Furutech GTX NCF in the wall.  after 2-3 weeks of love/hate they finally settled down and are AMAZING!

A couple of personal weirdnesses:

I do not believe everything that is touted to be the latest and greatest in tweaks until I try them for myself:  Show me.  I "believe" these things to be true because I could hear the improvements and simply find it a waste of precious time to statistically document the examples.  Life is getting shorter all of the time-

Plastic boxes at the room entry points.  No eddy currents or static if the ground wires are bonded to the box.

Disclaimer:  Do NOT Do This!!!  I am relating what I do and all legalities that apply are my responsibility only for what I do.  Beware!

I hope that is enough.  I don't want to be responsible for some weekend warrior that 'thinks' he knows what he is doing with AC.  They should leave that to a professional.  One such weekend warrior almost killed me back in the early 80's.  OK

I use the 10ga version of this cable and I connect the red and green ground wires together at both ends.  I then cover both wires with green heat shrink at both ends and have a notice posted in the service entry with a big red arrow for whomever comes later...  only smart, I think.

This gives a 7 ga ground wire of lower impedance than the conductors.  This is a very good thing.  Make sure that the grounding in the panel is good and well bonded to earth and water supply.

Steel cover plates are OK.  I have not been able to convince myself that the CF covers are worth it.  Still working on this one.  I have a plate I'm playing with that has a VG RFI absorber inside.  Jury is out, but I think this will be a product.  I just need access to a tool to cut the outlet holes.  The plate is wood, so maybe a laser...

Email me with specifics if you wish.

There is the current (!!!?? :duh??!!!) stream of consciousness from Dave

"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline richidoo

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2017, 03:04:48 PM »
Love it! Thanks for dumping your pile of wisdom on AN Dave!

So for "homeruns back to inlet," you mean back to the utility meter, where there is (in my case) a breaker panel with 50A airconditioner breaker etc. Install 4 more 30A breakers there?

Offline tmazz

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2017, 09:19:10 PM »

This gives a 7 ga ground wire of lower impedance than the conductors.  This is a very good thing.  Make sure that the grounding in the panel is good and well bonded to earth and water supply.



If you are going to ground to the water supply be sure you do it on the street side of the meter. That way you are assured of having a good earth connection regardless of whatever the water company may do with the meter in the future. (Remember, the water company will do what is cheapest for them and is not in the least bit concerned about preserving your grounding scheme.)

I had a customer in a commercial building who had his whole telephone system fried because it was not grounded like he thought. The contractor who installed it bonded it to the nearest water pipe and during a subsequent remodeling of a bathroom in the building the plumber ran a new home run pipe and cut out a one foot section of the pipe that the phone system was bonded to. The cut was all the way on the other side but it still left the phone equipment high and dry with respect to the ground. Had the original telephone contractor done the right job in the first place the ground would have been on the street side of the meter and unaffected by the plumbing modifications.
Remember, it's all about the music........

Nola Boxers
Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
Quicksilver Mid Monos
ARC SP-9
VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Sumiko Blue Pt. Special
EE Minmax DAC/Bluesound Node/Denon 2910
TWL Power Cords/MIT Cables

Offline rollo

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Re: How Much Power Conditionig do we Need ?
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2017, 07:34:08 AM »
Dave thanks for taking the time during your health issues. The info is priceless. Work to be done sometime next week.


charles
Free in Home demo.
 contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net
Aqua DAC- INNUOS  - Arion Class "D" Amps - Analysis Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- VU JADE -  - Kuzma - Furutech and more