Author Topic: Plutone  (Read 13581 times)

Offline richidoo

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Plutone
« on: August 15, 2016, 03:51:31 PM »


From Tony Gee, humblehomemadehifi.com, in Netherlands

90dB sensitive 2 way. 8 ohm, 7 min. 45Hz F3, ported.

Custom SEAS-built midwoofer designed by Troels Gravesen for his high efficiency kits. Very lightweight paper cone. Newest version has high mechanical Q (low loss suspension) and bigger motor than the old version I used in my DTQWT12 project. I loved that mid driver, very alive, communicative, dynamic.

Scanspeak's most expensive tweeter: Revelator beryllium

Extremely simple crossover, only one coil on woofer and one coil and a cap on the tweeter. No resistors to suck the life out of the music.

Crossover is prebuilt (so parts values remain trade secret) using the very best quality crossover parts available. Large gage Jantzen copper wax foil inductors and Intertechnik Audyn True Copper Max cap, with Duelund CAST silver copper hybrid cap optional.

It's very tube friendly, and good off axis dispersion.

This speaker is calling my name. I can hear it in the distance right before I fall asleep.... richidooooo, richidoooooooo

Marketing highlights from the blurb:

The combination of tweeter, woofer, cabinet material, shape and size form such a coherent unity that we were able to design a matching crossover that consists of only three components and uses no resistors at all, not even to tame the tweeter level! The result is stunning purity combined with a very natural tonal balance and excellent dynamic expression. Add into the mix a big sound-stage and you've got probably the best two-way monitor there is! Period.

as pure reproduction as possible from a two-way loudspeaker

treble is extremely well rendered, with heaps of detail and insight into the recording and at the same time never harsh nor sharp

The tonal balance of this loudspeaker is very natural, well balanced and coherent. At no time are you thinking about how good the tweeter is or how good the woofer is, just how good the music is. The loudspeaker is also very honest, the speaker simply just plays what it is given. Feed it a poorly produced recording of 1980's popular music and you get a poorly produced recording of 1980's popular music. Feed the Plutone a nice quality recording and you you couldn't wish for anything more

the sound-stage is also big... In our demo room the speakers are about 350 centimetres apart (measured from woofer phase-plug to woofer phase-plug) and about 380 centimetres from the listening seat. This give a "being there experience" which really lets you forget everything except the music

Best part is it's free!

Raw matched drivers, assembled crossovers w/Duelund caps, everything you need except wood and finish, ~$3300 shipped to US. Add a couple hundred for 1" baltic birch plywood, veneer, finish, figure $3500.

Custom stands? Maybe a pair of similarly amazing SQ subs? Sure why not!?! Round up to $5k.

Ooooh I am so sorely tempted. Amazing really that I haven't popped for it yet. But I am also riding the Legacy Focus SE bus, and don't want to lose my seat.

Comments?  ...and Yes I already know it's expensive ;) But you can tell me again.

Offline etcarroll

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2016, 06:04:21 PM »
It was a good read Rich, rig!ht up till I hit the price!  :shock:
"...if you want to enjoy your gear, don't listen to anything that might be better."

Offline topround

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2016, 06:33:53 PM »
Save your money
buy a vintage motorcycle to leave to your kids
money well spent, one goes up in value as the other goes down, and usually pretty fast downhill
whereas the motorcycle will go fast up hill and downhill!
and your kids will have a cool toy to show off, with bragging rights that their father restored it for them.
The plutone will end up in a garage sale for $20 with some guy offering $10
System consists of an amp a preamp, 2 speakers a turntable and a phono preamp, Also some cables and power cords and a really cheap cd player.

Offline mresseguie

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2016, 09:40:58 PM »
Something tells me these speakers ought to sound wonderful. They remind me of smallish AudioNote speakers.

Hell, go ahead and buy them. Then, post about how wonderful they sound so I can flip out over them, too when my wife and I are in the area next year. [Our son just applied to the Duke Physical Therapy School.]

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Offline Nick B

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2016, 12:33:36 PM »
Rich,
It would be cheaper to count sheep when you fall asleep 😳
Nick
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Offline BobM

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2016, 12:33:45 PM »
plus ... it's upside down
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry and you'll have to blow your nose.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2016, 07:33:09 PM »
plus ... it's upside down
Right?!  I'd flip it. Woofer has to be at ear level for time alignment but I like tweeter above my ears a few inches.

whereas the motorcycle will go fast up hill and downhill!
:lol:
Quote
The plutone will end up in a garage sale for $20 with some guy offering $10
  They can put my ashes in it.  :rofl:

It would be cheaper to count sheep when you fall asleep 😳
  A lot cheaper! and these would keep me up too late!

It was a good read Rich, rig!ht up till I hit the price!  :shock:
I had the same reaction. WHAT?!? for DIY!?!  :shock: But then it kept haunting me, night and day. My wife is sick of the word Plutone, Plutone, Plutone SHUT UP!   But I can't get her to say JUST BUY IT ALREADY! A few more weeks of PlutonePlutonePlutone should make her crack. She already said put it on cc, but I'm still not convinced any unassembled speaker should cost that much, unheard, unknown. Resale will be rough. "But I'll NEVER sell these, honest!"  :rofl:


And now, finally, the correct answer:
Something tells me these speakers ought to sound wonderful. Hell, go ahead and buy them. Then, post about how wonderful they sound so I can flip out over them, too when my wife and I are in the area next year. [Our son just applied to the Duke Physical Therapy School.]
If you promise to buy them from me on your visit then the veneer is your choice. ;)

Offline _Scotty_

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2016, 08:22:31 PM »
If you check with the designer of the Plutone, I think you will find out that the speaker is meant to be listened to with the tweeter on the bottom because this compensates for the speakers vertical lobing error which aims the output from the tweeter at a downward angle.
 Turning the loudspeaker upside down directs the highs upward towards your ears, problem solved.
Scotty

Offline richidoo

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2016, 08:46:07 PM »
Hey Scotty  Yeah that makes sense, with the drivers flush on vertical baffle. There is an asymmetric crossover to delay tweeter 90 degrees at 2400Hz xo. I did ask him about running it "upside down," he said fine as long as woofer is at ear height. I'll ask him about lobing as he has not published verticals.

Offline mresseguie

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2016, 09:22:59 PM »
Rich,

This speaker and my reading/viewing the humblehomehifi.com website has rekindled my interest in troelsgravesen.dk. In fact, I sent him an email asking about a couple of his designs. I may add another email asking about a third design depending on what his kits cost.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the Plutone remind you a bit of a design by AudioNote or ART speakers? I've got a link here....okay, there are obvious differences, but I can't help but wonder about how each sounds....
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/art/emotion.html

http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/speakers/spkr_home_01.shtml

Sometimes, while I'm not actually looking at my net worth or thinking about my real disposable income (as opposed to my imaginary income), I dream about owning such speakers. :drool:
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Offline richidoo

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2016, 10:30:34 PM »
Yeah, they sure do look like Audionote speakers! Thanks for the links Michael. Devore Orangutan is similar style, a 2way with large midwoofer in large box. The large box is big enough to minimize edge diffraction of tweeter and to make decent bass from the kinda high sensitivity woofers. The prices of all these commercial speakers is really really high. Buying audio purity by the gram. I heard Audionote at RMAF. They were pushed into the corner, but they didn't do much for me.

I don't think the Plutone is like that. I know the woofer is a fast revealing alive paper cone, and I know the rev Be tweeter is damn near perfect treble so it should be anything but mellow.

The Plutone price seems high for a DIY kit, but when you compare them to those Audionotes and clones it seems pretty cheap. The Plutone drivers and crossover parts are arguably significantly better quality than the AudioNote parts.

I was grinding the numbers tonight, I nixed the Duelunds to save $800 and make it $2700 shipped to my door. The drivers bought on my own add up to $1700, and $280 is shipping and import duty. The remaining 720 covers a lot of stuff: assembled crossovers with ultra-fi parts, posts, wire, damping, flared tubes, and, of course the most valuable part: the crossover design itself. Not too terrible considering what I've spent $3000 on before in this hobby. But those mistakes were easily sold in days. Maybe some US Audionote guys will get wind of Plutone and start a fad. It is very easy to build.

The other option is to just get the woofers for about $600, add my Satoris tweeters, either passive xo like the Plutones and trying to avoid resistors, or, use JRiver and my new multichannel USB and DAC from diyinhk.com and my 4 Modulus86 amps for an all active system. No resistors! and no coils either! And no analog, until I can get a ADC going. Hmmm. I'd like to use it with Don Sach's amplifier so passive would be nice. Not sure my passive design chops are up to it, but it's supposed to be only 3 parts, that's with the Rev tweeter...

Scotty, Tony Gee emailed back to confirm that there is lobing (of course) as with any low order crossover, but it is aimed forward perpendicular to baffle. So as long as woofer is at ear height then tweeter above or below will work. If it's tilted back a few degrees or built with tilted baffle then tweeter could be put at ear height. It would be nice to see the verticals.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 05:45:57 AM by richidoo »

Offline _Scotty_

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2016, 08:13:04 AM »
Maybe we have a failure to communicate here. If the lobe is perpendicular to the baffle and does not have an angular component that deviates from perpendicular to the baffle, then it in fact has no vertical lobing error.
 I think the speaker might sound very, very good for its size and price.
It has a lot going for it, I might try Audyen caps as an alternative to Dueland to keep the price down.
Scotty

Offline richidoo

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2016, 11:57:42 AM »
Thanks Scotty I value your opinion.

Offline rollo

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2016, 12:01:47 PM »
   Richidoo that guy is into tonality and harmonic structure big time. If the money is not an issue my bet you will like them.


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Offline richidoo

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Re: Plutone
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2016, 06:36:55 PM »
  Richidoo that guy is into tonality and harmonic structure big time. If the money is not an issue my bet you will like them.


charles

That's for sure, his designs are always very minimalistic, shallow filters and series crossovers with the very best drivers. He's also a jazz bassist and an architect. Can't be all bad! ;)

I'll probably give it a go for the next project.

Nice to see you back online, Charles!   :thumb:
Rich