Author Topic: AC Quality improvement  (Read 6293 times)

Offline tmazz

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AC Quality improvement
« on: October 22, 2015, 09:30:34 PM »
A while back the Pumpkinman recommended to me an industrial vibration absorbing pad that is sold  through commercial HVAC houses. At the time I was running an ARC VT-200 tube amp that had a reputation for overheating. A chat with ARC tech support revealed that most of the overheating was cause by user placement errors. The amp cooled itself by pulling air in though the bottom plate and past the tubes out the top. When people placed the amps on a carpeted floor it often sunk into the carpet (the amp weighs 135lbs), which block the airflow from the bottom and bingo, overheating problems. Now I had mine on a large slab of maple but figured it could not hurt to raise it and let the air flow even freer through the  bottom. I dropped the amp on Bills magic squares and wow, in addition to just raising the amp it did sound better.

The squares come in cork and a man made product called EVA (Extreme Vibration Attenuation). I thought the cork sounded better so I used that (of course this could vary in other systems or enven under different units in the same system. I don't have enough data to conclusively say that one is "better" than the other for audio purposes.
Info here-

The blue one:

http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8

And the cork one:

http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2C-Rubber-Cork-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8

Well over the summer my wife was complaining that the central air unit right outside our family room was getting too loud. So last weekend I was thinking, "I have a bunch of those blue squares in my Misc Stereo Cr@p draw why don't I try to use them for what they were meant for in the first place. So I went outside and slipped some under the compressor and son of a gun, the ambient noise coming out of the compressor dropped from 59db to 55db. Hey, these things actually work for what they were designed to do. (I picked the blue ones not because of their vibration control steps, but rather because I felt the synthetic material would stand up to the weather better than the cork.) 4 dh may not seem like a lot, but I immediately heard the difference, even before I measured the SPLs.

Are we a sick bunch or what? Now I am going around measuring the audio response of my air conditioning units.  :duh

And you thought this was going to be a thread about looking for better commercial A/C power for you audio system........

« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 09:35:21 PM by tmazz »
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Offline rollo

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2015, 08:07:14 AM »
   Ya never know until you try. Nothing lose everything to gain. Good find Tom.


charles
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Offline jimbones

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2015, 09:26:01 AM »
Does this make you an "air conditionerphile"?
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Offline tmazz

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2015, 10:10:04 AM »
Does this make you an "air conditionerphile"?

No, I think it just makes me a nutjob!  :rofl:
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline rollo

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2016, 06:36:17 AM »
  Further experimentation shows that a simple isolation transformer also makes the AC quite. Actually gets more efficient.
   Who knew ? Try it. Especially if on same line as your audio system.


charles
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Offline tmazz

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2016, 09:10:26 AM »
  Further experimentation shows that a simple isolation transformer also makes the AC quite. Actually gets more efficient.
   Who knew ? Try it. Especially if on same line as your audio system.


charles

I anyone has their A/C unit on the same electrical circuit as their Audio gear IMHO their number one priority should be to run a separate line to the audio gear. Refrigeration compressors, whether they be in an air conditioner a freezer of a frig, generate all kinds of noise back into the electrical grid and should be kept as far from the audio gear as possible. How many times have you heard guys talk about how their systems don't sound good in the summer?
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline richidoo

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2016, 12:38:31 PM »
Central AC compressors are 220V so both legs are polluted, nowhere to connect a truly separate circuit. Distribution transformer only has one secondary, so your neighbors' AC units will get you even if you shut off your own AC.

Remember that story last year about the Japanese audiophile who had his own utility pole?  :thumb: 

A good passive filter, or regenerator, or iso-tranny should cure the AC noise.

Funny, I don't hear noise even when fridge and both ACs are running. They are all cheap 11yo whirlpool and carrier compressors.

I've noticed that people having noise or other AC problems are often in houses older than mine (11yo,) or in more urban areas. Could there have been changes in the electrical code over the years, like improved grounding or something, which have since stopped appliance noise from polluting other circuits?

Offline Werd

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2016, 02:17:31 PM »
Anyone that has their audio gear on the same circuit as their air condition are completely retarded. Like seriously Trump retarded.

Haha, hey how is it hanging here?
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Offline tmazz

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2016, 09:58:15 PM »
Central AC compressors are 220V so both legs are polluted, nowhere to connect a truly separate circuit. Distribution transformer only has one secondary, so your neighbors' AC units will get you even if you shut off your own AC.


Agreed, I was thinking more of 120v wall units. AC problems are strange and sometimes make no obvious sense. I know that a lot of people I know who complain about noisy AC problems also live close to industrial or commercial areas and who knows what kind of hash they are pushing back into the grid and how it travels in comparison to where their homes sit. But they certainly complain about their systems sounding significantly worse during cooling season.

Luckily for me I have not experienced that kind of problems in either of the two house I've lived in since taking up this hobby...... knock on wood.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• Quicksilver Mid Monos
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Sumiko Blue Pt. Special
• EE Minmax DAC/Bluesound Node/Denon 2910
• TWL Power Cords/MIT Cables

Offline jessearias

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2016, 01:38:33 PM »
Proper grounding of all equipment, lights and devices on the electrical system in your house is essential.

Most newer homes are 3 wire (hot, neutral, ground) systems, so everything should be properly grounded in the system. Assuming the electrician properly grounded everything.

The problem comes in older homes with two wire (hot, neutral) systems. Ungrounded equipment, lights and devices can cause all sorts of hum and noise in the system. Plus older knob and tube wiring insulation can break down creating RF issues and other hazards. 

I have a 100 year old home and re-wired it completely. Everything is properly grounded and the music room is on its own circuit. I have no issues with noise or hum in the stereo system even when running a vacuum  cleaner or the AC. Any residual is cleaned up by the Uberbuss.
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Offline rollo

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2016, 08:25:14 AM »
  Guys my comments were based on an Apt. system where one only has one dedicated duplex outlet which feeds the air conditioner.
    My buddy says his AC is more efficient after installing a Isolation Transformer. Sounds much better as well.



charles
   
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Offline rollo

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2017, 07:15:06 AM »
Making the plunge installing a new dedicated 100Amp panel to feed the main system. Square "D" panel with 20Amp magnetic breakers. Copper buss bar and ground bar.
All copper contacts will be cleaned with deoxit polished with steel wool and treated with Pro-gold.
Receptacles will be cryo treated Furutech fed by cryo treated 10ga Romex.
Then an Uber buss for each outlet and Digibuss for digital.


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Offline richidoo

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2017, 07:47:47 AM »
Nice upgrade!

Is it a sub-panel off the main, or a new main off the meter?

Offline rollo

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Re: AC Quality improvement
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2017, 07:48:42 AM »
Nice upgrade!

Is it a sub-panel off the main, or a new main off the meter?

  Off the Meter. Ehhhh!


charles
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