Author Topic: Doin the Class D thing  (Read 22984 times)

Offline Werd

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Doin the Class D thing
« on: December 03, 2013, 07:59:13 PM »
I never thought I would say this but I think Class D is going to be the big force in solid state very shortly. I had a friend bring over a Chapter 250s integrated.

http://www.chapteraudio.co.uk/products/hardback/precis-250s/#/overview

He borrowed me the amp and i let him use a pair of Wharfedales opus I wasn't using. With out going into a winded review I will say this.

Like Valves amps being legendary for their midrange bloom. The class D amps I have heard all have a synthetic bloom to them that is all their own including Micromega and Devaliet . Its a very nice quality that I don't hear from regular A/B nonlinear power.  We did a full swap and I own it now. This is the nicest integrated I have heard and it literally cleans house with separates in the same price.

Anyways I thought I would share it.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 08:02:12 PM by Werd »
Nola Viper Reference iii, Nola Blue Thunder Subs, Chapter Couplet 400s, Chapter Précis 250 integrated set to pre, Bryston BDA2/BDP1.
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Offline sleepyguy24

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2013, 07:07:18 AM »
Thanks for sharing. I dabbled in Class D type amps a couple of years ago but they were lower wattage per channel amps or DIY class D amps. I just felt in my systems they were too polite. The soundstage wasn't as wide and bass wasn't tight. I strongly preferred Class A type amps or Class AB type amps like the older McCormack DNA amps. After reading more postings here I may try Class D type amps in my systems when the money allows.

I saw this write up about Crown XLS Class D amps and these are the ones I may want to try as they won't crush my wallet.

http://www.andrew-robinson-online.com/review-crown-xls-drivecore-series-amplifier/

Offline rollo

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 08:45:03 AM »
Werd could not agree more. I never thought my beloved SET amps or AR classic 60 would be replaced by class "D".
    On a whim  with a preconceived opinion of "no way" can it be better with my system. Tried one now selling the line as you all know.
    There are several contenders out there these days. Try em and be as surprised as me.
   Werd enjoy your new component.  Who knew ?  :lol:


charles
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Offline Werd

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 11:46:29 AM »
Thanks for sharing. I dabbled in Class D type amps a couple of years ago but they were lower wattage per channel amps or DIY class D amps. I just felt in my systems they were too polite. The soundstage wasn't as wide and bass wasn't tight. I strongly preferred Class A type amps or Class AB type amps like the older McCormack DNA amps. After reading more postings here I may try Class D type amps in my systems when the money allows.

I saw this write up about Crown XLS Class D amps and these are the ones I may want to try as they won't crush my wallet.

http://www.andrew-robinson-online.com/review-crown-xls-drivecore-series-amplifier/

I know what you mean. Make sure you use Xlr in. I love both presentations on this but rca does shrink the stage in the lower gain setting. I bump up the gain and it mostly comes back but not like the Xlr.  I still prefer the rca but Its probably cabling brand that I like atm.

When you find one you like its gonzo.
Nola Viper Reference iii, Nola Blue Thunder Subs, Chapter Couplet 400s, Chapter Précis 250 integrated set to pre, Bryston BDA2/BDP1.
Torus RM-20 240v

Gutwire, TWL, Wywires,

Offline Werd

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 11:48:16 AM »
Werd could not agree more. I never thought my beloved SET amps or AR classic 60 would be replaced by class "D".
    On a whim  with a preconceived opinion of "no way" can it be better with my system. Tried one now selling the line as you all know.
    There are several contenders out there these days. Try em and be as surprised as me.
   Werd enjoy your new component.  Who knew ?  :lol:


charles

We think alike as usual ..  :thumb:. What are you selling?
Nola Viper Reference iii, Nola Blue Thunder Subs, Chapter Couplet 400s, Chapter Précis 250 integrated set to pre, Bryston BDA2/BDP1.
Torus RM-20 240v

Gutwire, TWL, Wywires,

Offline JBryan

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2013, 08:02:35 AM »
I've tried several D-amps and while they never really contended with SET amps on my top horns (too 'solid-state' for my taste), they are a great match with my bass horns. I used various D-amps up to 200 watts on the bins but settled on a pr of Gainclone monos pushing @50w. They sound relaxed yet detailed and allow the bins to run fairly flat down to 32Hz with a 6dB drop below 35Hz and 10dB below 30. What I really liked about the GC more so than 100-200w tubed and SS amps was their fast, tight and visceral bass - obvious even at the lower wattage. Another BIG bonus is that I can leave the amps on 24/7 and they use the same power as a flashlight bulb at idle and so they are always ready. The other tube/SS amps I tried would take up to 2-3 hours to warm up and I just don't have that much time to wait for the bass to tighten up.

I'm still open to trying Class D amps on the top horns but I just don't see the technology surpassing the sound offered by SETs anytime soon. I'm also interested in putting more power into the bass bins and finding another D-amp that is more powerful, relaxed, tight and visceral than the GC's seems more viable.

Offline rollo

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2013, 08:18:28 AM »
  Horns mostly sound better with SET, however there are exceptions. Hybrid class "D" has a chance but not a cure all nothing is.
   On Klipsh the class "D" hybrid was really good. But as we all know personal taste rules over any component.
    Werd we sell Arion class "D" mono blocks the HS500 hybrid version and the non hybrid version. prices range from $3400 to $7200 a pair. Top of the line features Duelund CAST output caps and JPS internal wire.


charles
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Aqua DAC- INNUOS  - Arion Class "D" Amps - Analysis Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- VU JADE -  - Kuzma - Furutech and more

Offline bhobba

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2013, 03:38:54 PM »
IMHO Class D is already the big thing.

I own 2 - The Arion HS-500 with Cast Rollo mentioned and the little S-250 Rollo didn't mention:
http://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/Amplifier-SS/Arion-Audio/S-250/250-watts-per-channel-stereo-amplifier/70729

At our recent amp GTG the Arion went neck to neck with a $35K Gryphon, with the Gryphon just pipping it.

Overall, for all types of music and 2 channel home theatre, the best value IMHO was the S-250 for me.  And it will drive anything.

The interesting dark horse though was a very heavily upgraded Leak.  Wild sound - just had to get one myself for upgrade.

Thanks
Bill

Offline Triode Pete

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2013, 04:03:42 PM »

The interesting dark horse though was a very heavily upgraded Leak.  Wild sound - just had to get one myself for upgrade.

Thanks
Bill


The Leak gear from England was always well "laid-out" and well made with point to point wiring. It was always great gear & great sounding"... similar to the old tubed McIntosh & Marantz gear...

My $0.02,
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Offline Response Audio

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2013, 09:42:37 AM »
I agree with all the comments here about Class D being the future but still find that a hybrid design is very much needed. I have been using our hybrid design for a couple years now. I still very much enjoy tubes, especially SET but for everyday listening, I use the Class D hybrid.

There are some new Class D ODM manufacturers that seem to really have their act together. Stay tuned aa

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Offline DaveC

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2013, 09:49:50 AM »
Yeah, D is improving and will offer high quality amplification at lower prices eventually. For now, I don't think it can keep up with the best class A amps, tube or SS, but it's close and getting closer everyday.

One thing about D amps is it seems they require more tweaking to get the sound right and they react more strongly to changes in wiring, caps, etc...

Re that Leak amp above, Solen caps combined with Duelund...  :lol: Might try the Clarity TC caps there instead.


Offline Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2013, 03:03:16 PM »
The nice thing about class D is that it's cheap. Those of us less fortunate that see this as the most "plentiful and financially attractive forms of amplification" might be worried that the audiophiles of the world find out what we've known all along and jack the price up.

So....In closing....I'd like to say that class D sucks, and y'all shouldn't buy into this theory that you will like it.

Don't even audition it, it really sucks. Keep your toobs.

Bob
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Offline topround

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2013, 03:52:03 AM »
Bob,
you don't find the tonality of class D to be a bit off?

Of all the class D I heard I was always impressed by what so little parts could do, but in the end it was the tonality that had me scratching my head why I ultimately did not like it.

I think a tube pre in front would have to be a neccessity with a class D amp.

and I agree in the future it will be all class D
I am a vinyl guy but I know in the future it will all be digital downloads, especially as the bit depth increases you get closer to the resolution of vinyl
System consists of an amp a preamp, 2 speakers a turntable and a phono preamp, Also some cables and power cords and a really cheap cd player.

Offline Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2013, 06:16:31 AM »
Honestly, the only class D I've ever heard used above 100-120 Hz was in some four thousand dollar "audio chair" that Scott F had in his house. The nearfield mounted speakers sounded amazing, even Scott and his trained ear thought it was fantastic.

Other than that, I've only heard it used for subwoofer duty.

My earlier post wasn't entirely .....shall we say......"accurate".
I had a few cocktails and was feeling feisty.

Bob
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Thanks for the trumpet Rich!

Offline Werd

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2013, 07:04:40 AM »
Bob,
you don't find the tonality of class D to be a bit off?

Of all the class D I heard I was always impressed by what so little parts could do, but in the end it was the tonality that had me scratching my head why I ultimately did not like it.

I think a tube pre in front would have to be a neccessity with a class D amp.

and I agree in the future it will be all class D
I am a vinyl guy but I know in the future it will all be digital downloads, especially as the bit depth increases you get closer to the resolution of vinyl

From what I've noticed Class D is all about noise. If its too noisy then your back in time. if you can keep the noise down there is synthetic bloom thats really engaging. This integrated specs at 125db and that's amazing for an integrated and it explains all the air I get.

You have to cable into it too.
Nola Viper Reference iii, Nola Blue Thunder Subs, Chapter Couplet 400s, Chapter Précis 250 integrated set to pre, Bryston BDA2/BDP1.
Torus RM-20 240v

Gutwire, TWL, Wywires,