Author Topic: Schiit Bifrost Upgrades  (Read 15269 times)

Offline Nick B

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Re: Schiit Bifrost Upgrades
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2014, 08:26:28 PM »
Over a year ago, I spoke with Jeff at Sonic Craft and he said he was doing some mods on the Bifrost. Costs were reasonable ...maybe $500 IIRC. Is anyone aware of a Sonic Craft modded Bifrost?
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
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DaveC

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Re: Schiit Bifrost Upgrades
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2014, 09:12:40 AM »
Yes, Sonicraft does Bifrost mods but I think to the regular (non-uber) Bifrost...

I still like mine, it is a nice DAC for the cash, but I have had the Auralic in my system and in direct comparison, well... the Bifrost loses out badly. There are 2 main reasons.

- The soundstage of the Vega is wide, deep and steady. It is detached from the speakers to a greater degree than the Bifrost and makes my system sound LARGE, when in fact it is SMALL.  :)

A lot of folks think the soundstage from small speakers need to be small, but the Vega proves otherwise. It may just be folks don't use a source of this quality on smaller less expensive speakers. With the Vega in my system the Omega single drivers perform at a ridiculously high level, and not just "for the price". The mids and highs are far better than average, and it takes some serious high-level drivers to top them that cost many times the price.

- The Vega's sound is absolutely free of any grain or harshness, it is relaxed and easy to listen to. In contrast the Schiit does produce some high frequency garbage typical of PCM audio and to be fair most DACs have this signature regardless of price. It may not be noticeable until you use a DAC that does not do this. It's not something that can be picked out, but it adds a tension to the music that is absent with the Vega.

These are the 2 major differences that I noticed. Together, they add up to a rather massive difference in experience and in my system the sound goes from pretty good to world class going from the Bifrost to the Vega.

The one positive thing about the Bifrost is it is neutral and very detailed. Just not perfect... of course price is 6-7x higher for the Vega.  :lol:

I would like to try the new Sony HAP1, $2k for a server and DAC is a bit more realistic budget-wise, I have a hard time justifying the Vega... and Mike G also recommended the Yulong as being fairly close to the Vega for about 1/3 of the price.

Offline sleepyguy24

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Re: Schiit Bifrost Upgrades
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2014, 10:01:53 AM »
Good to know about the SonicCraft and their ability to upgrade a non-uber BiFrost. I checked their site yesterday after reading Nick B's post and didn't find anything noted on their site. They do have lots of nice parts.

Also Dave thanks for the the detail about the BiFrost. I'm hoping new member Williewonka can chime in. He has extensive experience with the BiFrost. I'm on overload with auditioning different DACs in the same price range in my system.

Offline Nick B

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Re: Schiit Bifrost Upgrades
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2014, 10:10:31 PM »
Good to know about the SonicCraft and their ability to upgrade a non-uber BiFrost. I checked their site yesterday after reading Nick B's post and didn't find anything noted on their site. They do have lots of nice parts.

Also Dave thanks for the the detail about the BiFrost. I'm hoping new member Williewonka can chime in. He has extensive experience with the BiFrost. I'm on overload with auditioning different DACs in the same price range in my system.

There's never been any info re the Bifrost mod on Sonic Craft's website. I only learned of it from Jeff when I brought up the subject of dacs
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

DaveC

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Re: Schiit Bifrost Upgrades
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2014, 09:51:47 AM »
I also got feedback that the Sony HAP1 is a little better than the Auralic Vega's RCA outs but the Vega's balanced outs are better...

It seems like the Sony is a good value for what it does and the price is easier to swallow than ~$5k for an Auralic streamer + DAC.

My feeling is the Bifrost is good for the money but IDK... it's really pretty far from the Auralic even using it's RCA outs as I did when it was in my system. When I was at Mike G's he had a HiFace DAC that at $300 seems like it was very close to the performance of the Bifrost, and both were better than TEAC's DSD DAC.

I would be tempted to say a lot of these mid priced DACs like the Bifrost and others in the $500-1000 range aren't really worth it, and if I were buying today I think I would go with a lower end DAC like the HiFace or a higher end unit like the Sony or better. All the DACs in the under or near $1k range just seem too similar, or rather they are just lateral moves, and don't get you near the performance of higher end units so I'm not sure I see the value in spending $1k vs just a few hundred, as the performance may not be that much different and ultimately it won't really come that close to a higher end source anyway.

Sorry to be a buzz-kill on the lower end digital stuff, but those are my observations... and I still think my Bifrost is a decent DAC but today I would buy the HiFace for 1/2 the price and put the rest in the bank to save up for a better source.

 

geowak

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Re: Schiit Bifrost Upgrades
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2014, 07:29:47 PM »
It's understandable that the Auralic Vega sounds better than the Schiit Bifrost. I think the Vega is $3500.00 and the Bifrost Uber is $600.00 for all the upgrades. That is a very big price difference. But keep in mind that few, if any, DAC manufacturers build a device and they offer upgraded boards. This is a plus, since the technology changes so rapidly. Schiit Audio has done this for the audiophiles who cannot drop a few thousand every two years for a better DAC.

If I were to spend that kind of money to get an Auralic, I might switch back to turntables and get a nice VPI and cartridge. There are many more choices for a source at that price point.

DaveC

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Re: Schiit Bifrost Upgrades
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2014, 11:28:29 AM »
Don't get me wrong, the Bifrost is still a very good DAC for the money, just not in an absolute sense.

I DO understand the comparison with the Vega is kind of ridiculous, but for me, it's the difference between a very good system and a truly world-class system. And if I have to pay $3k more to get there it's worth it FOR ME. If the Sony HAP1's RCA outs are better then the Sony would work for me at $2k, and I can add my own mu-follower tube output at my leisure as well, which is what I'm leaning toward.

That is why I said if I was buying right now and had $1k or less I would but the HiFace, that is so I could save the money for a much more expensive unit.

I also hear you about the changing technology, and I DO NOT have the cash to put thousands down for a new source every couple years, and this does make the issue more difficult. The Vega has been out for a while, I wonder how long until it's successor is announced?  And Sony will have a 10 TB SSD hard drive in the unit out next year... ;)

williewonka

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Re: Schiit Bifrost Upgrades
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2014, 08:32:03 AM »
Having read through this thread it seems there is consensus on the excellent price/performance of the Bifrost.

I have the model with the Uber Upgrade and the USB input and I am streaming from my iMac using iTunes with Audirvana to bypass the crappy apple coding - all controlled remotely from my droid tablet using Retune app.

My own experience with this little DAC has also been excellent, especially after I upgraded the power cables and the interconnects. It's the little DAC that just keeps on giving.

I have upgraded the power cables and interconnects several times and each time the DAC has revealed more details, faster dynamics and wider and deeper image.

Here's a list of the various upgrades for anyone who's interested

Interconnects....
- initial cables were standard Stager Silver Solids with RCA plugs
- upgraded the RCA's to Eichman Silver Bullet RCA's
- Upgraded the RCA's to KLE Innovations Copper Harmony RCA's
- upgraded the RCA's to KLE Innovations Silver Harmony RCA's
- upgraded the interconnects to KLE Innovations Essense gZero3

Power Cables - I construct my own power cables using bulk cable from DH Labs and Furutech using Sonar Quest silver plated copper IEC and mains connectors from eBay.

Cables used
- DH Labs Encore
- Furutech FP-314Ag
- Furutech FP-314Ag (braided)

Upgrading the RCA's/interconnects provided noticeable improvements and for the price I consider them worth it.

The power cable improvements were not as noticeable at first - untill I braided them, which elevated the performance of the Bifrost to a whole new level.

Braiding the Furutech required the removal of the outer sheath and shielding to get to the internal conductors. Once braided, a protective expandable sleeve was used to cover the conductors.

This is now my default power cable design across my entire system - using the Furutech FP-314Ag for sources and the FP-3TS762 for the amp and power distribution centre.

I have also braided the DH Labs bulk power cables with similar success and for the price (1/3 the cost of Furutech) they are very competent performers, but the Furutech just has the edge

But you can take an even more affordable approach - I first used a piece of 12 gauge extension cord from the hardware store with gold plated copper Vanguard IEC/Mains connectors from eBay - I'm told by an acquaintance  that also tried it that it outperformed his Gutwire power cable

The changes to cabling allows the outstanding abilities of this very affordable DAC to really shine.

What other DAC's have I tried?
• Wadia 121 decoding computer
• Mytek Stereo 192 DSD DAC
• Chord QuteHD DAC

I prefer the sound of the Bifrost - it's more dynamic and detailed than the Wadia and more natural sounding than the Chord. It compares very favourably to the Mytek and is around 1/3 the price.

My system...
- Custom Turntable with Audiomods arm and Denon DL-103
- Simaudio Moon LP 5.3RS phono stage
- Imac streaming via DH Labs USB cable into the Bifrost
- Naim 5i integrated amp
- Gershman Acoustics Sonogram Speakers with Essence gZero2 speaker cables

Apologies for the length of the post - Hope you find it useful

Regards
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 12:58:22 PM by williewonka »