Author Topic: Cleaning Vinyl Records  (Read 37216 times)

Offline richidoo

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Cleaning Vinyl Records
« on: May 04, 2011, 09:20:19 AM »
A new thread for discussing cleaning methods.

See previous record cleaning threads:
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2829.0
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=1983.0

I'll start by asking questions...

I have no record cleaning equipment at all. I have a couple hundred records that have never been cleaned except for some discwasher liquid drops 25 years ago. A few years ago I tried washing some in the sink with dishsoap and a sponge, with soft well water rinse and towel dry. The pops and ticks that were there before washing were not affected, but slightly quieter hiss and looked better.  With better methods is it really possible to remove these ticks and pops, or at least the ones caused by contamination after the stamper? I have read that a vacuum machine seems to do the best job. But why? What does it do that distilled water rinse doesn't?

For me, vinyl is like a glass of wine, not daily milk. I enjoy it occasionally and not yet ready to invest $1000 in cleaning equipment. Like any sane person, I love the sound of vinyl, and would consider doing more with it if I had faith that I could clean up used records to remove 90% or more of the pops. Is it possible?

Is there a manual cleaning brush that can be used with LP cleaning fluid to effectively scrub out the dirt then rinse with distilled water and air dry? I mean without a vacuum. I don't need perfect, I just need reasonably clean enough to listen to it. What about orthobiz's or MoFi's enzyme cleaners? Are they better than the usual alcohol and detergent recipes?

Someone needs to make an LP pressure washer. Hmmmm  :idea:
Thanks guys!!
Rich

Offline BobM

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 09:26:55 AM »
I've found that the Disk Doctor fluid and brushes are simple and effective, short of getting a vacuum cleaning machine. I bought these many years ago, cleaned hundreds of records and still have about 1/2 a bottle of concentrated fluid left. So it goes far for the cost and does a good job.

A clean record really makes all the difference.
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thechairguy

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 10:10:18 AM »
Beyond all logic I've found that using a vacuum cleaning machine is SO much better than any hand cleaning method.  It's often HUGELY important to the final sonic product.

I bought my Nitty Gritty Model 1, beaten but useable, for $150 on ebay a few years ago.  They're $365 new.

However, the motor inside is loud and KAB has a better answer.  They buy cut-down Nitty Gritty 1's from the manufacturer...without a motor inside...this saves the a lot and they sell their EV-1 for $159 new.

You just need to add your own vacuum cleaner (canisters best as they tend to have better suction...but, some uprights like Dyson have decent tool suction) to provide the suction.  As your own vacuum is several feet from you and many canister vacs have better motor damping than the Nitty Gritty Model 1 does...it often makes for a quieter experience overall with the same net results -scrupulously clean records.

http://kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/ (look under Record Cleaners on the top tabs)

Truly, a good deal at $159.  Rich - your vinyl listening time would probably vault skyward if you had pristine clean records via RCM.  It truly defies most logic as to how important they are to the vinyl experience  :thumb:

Ciao, John

Offline richidoo

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2011, 10:43:58 AM »
Thanks Bob and John. I believe what you are saying about enjoying listening John. I find the pops and tick and background noise to be the most objectionable part of vinyl, besides the price of gear of course. :D  The occasional LP that I own which is relatively clean and a good recording and pressing is a lot of fun to listen to. The rest I just suffer the noise because I don't have these old records on CD. I'm also confused why brand new records have pops right out of the sleeve, but record plants are not clean-rooms. While my vinyl rig is not yet as revealing or transparent as my digital, I enjoy the dense and rich sound at the expense of some ultimate detail of digital.  But the pops just ruin it. I can't concentrate deeply with the noise always pulling me back.

Last summer I bought a Miele canister. It is very quiet and has strong suction (TWHS.) So the EV-1 cleaner sounds like a good deal for me. I didn't know about that, thanks.

So is a nitty gritty cleaner just as effective as a more expensive model? Is the suction power and the cleaning fluid the two most important variables for cleaning ability? Or do these automated models do a better job, or just convenience?  I guess if it is easy you will do it more.

eleazar

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 01:32:00 PM »
Hi Rich

I've added steaming cleaning to my list of vinyl chores. I have the identical steam unit as pictured in the video.
I also use a RCM as part of the process and really enjoy cleaning my LPs. All part of my vinyl playback experience
A DIY record cleaning setup is not all that hard to do........Bill


http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/S&VVC/

Offline tmazz

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2011, 01:52:40 PM »
Rich, I think you hit the nail right on the head when you said "...is it really possible to remove these ticks and pops, or at least the ones caused by contamination..." There are two sources of clicks and pops on a record those caused by a foreign body sitting on top of the grooves and those cause by an imperfection in the grooves themselves (such as a scratch). Certainly if the pop is caused by something sitting on top of the record, cleaning the debris off will get rid of the noise. However; if the noise is being cause by any kind of surface defect, whether caused by the pressing process or some other external force, no amount of cleaning is going to get rid of that click.

That said I have to agree with Bob, there is really nothing like a clean record. While it may not get rid of all the clicks and pops, a good cleaning will lower the overall noise floor and give you a blacker background. I really don't know sonically what the difference between a vacuum based cleaner and one of the newer hand type cleaners. I heard what the VPI cleaners could do 20 years and was sold on the spot. I have been using it ever since and swear by the results. Some of the newer hand systems may come closer than the ones that were around 20 years ago, but I have never really tried them because, well, I already have the 16.5.

On a theoretical basis a vacuum system will work better for two reasons. First it will allow you to use cleaner formulas that may do a better job cleaning but would damage the record if left on for an extended period of time (the vacuum will do a better job of removing all residue of the cleaner as compared to soaking it up with some kine of rag or pad.) and secondly the vacuum will life any dirt out of the grooves instead of pushing it back down like a pad might do when it is drying a record. While all of this sounds good on paper I can't say that I have ever done any first hand A/B testing between the 16.5 and any of the currently available hand cleaning systems.

The 16.5 is bulky, noisy and not cheap, but it does a great job and if you want mine you are going to have to pry it from my cold, dead hands.  :thumb:
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline tmazz

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2011, 01:59:06 PM »
Hi Rich

I've added steaming cleaning to my list of vinyl chores. I have the identical steam unit as pictured in the video.
I also use a RCM as part of the process and really enjoy cleaning my LPs. All part of my vinyl playback experience
A DIY record cleaning setup is not all that hard to do........Bill


http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/S&VVC/

Bill,

I have always been intrigued by the idea of steam cleaning, but I am too much of a chicken to subject any of my records to that kind of heat.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

eleazar

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 04:53:47 PM »
Hi Rich

I've added steaming cleaning to my list of vinyl chores. I have the identical steam unit as pictured in the video.
I also use a RCM as part of the process and really enjoy cleaning my LPs. All part of my vinyl playback experience
A DIY record cleaning setup is not all that hard to do........Bill


http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/S&VVC/

Bill,

I have always been intrigued by the idea of steam cleaning, but I am too much of a chicken to subject any of my records to that kind of heat.

Well I did get a bit over aggressive with a $1 lp and ruined it. But on the other hand I have a Japanese Jazz Samba LP that was very noisey and the steam really really helped while just the VPI alone didn't do it.

Bill

Offline richidoo

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2011, 05:25:12 PM »
Pretty cool videos Bill. Seemed like he was just doing the first track? Does the steamer make enough steam to do the whole side at once? I can imagine how well that works. Steam cleaning is the ultimate.  I also read about some people who clean records in ultrasonic cleaner tank.

Mike C. has offered to lend me his 16.5 for a couple weeks to check it out. Thanks Mike!!

Should I order some Disc Doctor fluid?

eleazar

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2011, 05:34:58 PM »
Pretty cool videos Bill. Seemed like he was just doing the first track? Does the steamer make enough steam to do the whole side at once? I can imagine how well that works. Steam cleaning is the ultimate.  I also read about some people who clean records in ultrasonic cleaner tank.

Mike C. has offered to lend me his 16.5 for a couple weeks to check it out. Thanks Mike!!

Should I order some Disc Doctor fluid?

It makes enough steam for one side at a time. I then do a normal run thru the VPI and when I'm done the little steamer is ready for side 2. I don't do every LP mind you probably about half get steamed. I've talked to Dave W about 6 times now using Skype "which he told me about". Real nice guy and I love that British accent  :lol:

Offline tmazz

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2011, 07:36:32 PM »
Pretty cool videos Bill. Seemed like he was just doing the first track? Does the steamer make enough steam to do the whole side at once? I can imagine how well that works. Steam cleaning is the ultimate.  I also read about some people who clean records in ultrasonic cleaner tank.

Mike C. has offered to lend me his 16.5 for a couple weeks to check it out. Thanks Mike!!

Should I order some Disc Doctor fluid?

I use the VPI fluid which is now sold as a concentrate. (about $27 including shipping) in ebay. Mix the concentrate with 1 pint of 91% isopropyl alcohol in a 1 gallon jug and then top it off with distilled water. Even at the rate that I clean records a gallon lasts me over a year.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

thechairguy

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2011, 07:38:15 PM »
Rich...no difference in cleaning abilities between any of the Nitty-Gritty cleaners...your merely buying higher levels of automation as you movpe 'up' in the line.  The refreshingly candid women that now owns/runs NG even has/had stated rhat right on her site a while back  :thumb:

I've never compared a NG to VPI...but have used the VPI cleaner many many times at my old dealer Audio by DOA (Distributors of America) at the corner of Rt.110 & Jericho Tpke in Huntington some 20 years ago.  

We've got a few LI'ers here so i thought i'd mention that for Nostalgia sake  8)

I have never likely gotten goosebumps from any record that wasn't vacuum cleaned - new or well used - the effect of an RCM is pretty humongous.  Just way more than logic would dictate.  Hope you get to abundantly hear what benefit it lends to vinyl sonics that i have over the decades, Rich  :D
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 07:39:51 PM by thechairguy »

Offline tmazz

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2011, 07:41:10 PM »

I've never compared a NG to VPI...but have used the VPI cleaner many many times at my old dealer Audio by DOA (Distributors of America) at the corner of Rt.110 & Jericho Tpke in Huntington some 20 years ago.  


I remember going there. They tore the building down a few years back and built a bank on that corner.  :(
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline richidoo

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2011, 09:26:18 PM »
Hope you get to abundantly hear what benefit it lends to vinyl sonics that i have over the decades, Rich  :D

Gonna try, thanks to mdconnelly

Offline richidoo

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl Records
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2011, 09:05:15 AM »
I visited Mike today, to pick up the 16.5 and get a lesson on how to clean. We cleaned my Delightfulee LP while there. The side that Mike did sounds better. My side stil has trace of super high pitched ticks. His side is near perfect, my son thought it was a CD. I'm looking forward to getting down to business with my records.

Mike gave me some Disc Doctor to use, but I also want to try this recipe:
http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize041998.htm
It uses alcohol, Lysol, wetting agent and water. Lysol's active ingredient is a chemical that dissolves the cell walls of germs very quickly. Bacteria and mold are not just gently euthanized - they are melted in boiling acid.  :twisted:

Thanks Mike!