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Author Topic: Dual Subs  (Read 6676 times)

Offline BobM

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Dual Subs
« on: February 13, 2016, 05:03:14 AM »
I've owned and integrated a REL Strata III sub into my system for about 15+ years now. As many of you know, somehow the REL sub's have a way of integrating nicely with many types of speakers. But I only had one.

I know lots of you have experimented with 2 subs, saying that using 2 help alleviate bass nodes in the room while providing still more kick and clarity to the music. Well, I finally saw a second REL Strata II sub, in cherry, on Audiogon and I bought it to match my first one. I expect it to arrive sometime next week and will be integrating it and adjusting crossover points once it arrives.

Any tips or thoughts?

- one will be placed next to each L-R Apogee Duetta Sig speaker

Thanks,
Bob
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Offline Triode Pete

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2016, 06:52:26 AM »
Nice, Bob! Way to enjoy your retirement!

Cheers,
Pete
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Offline HAL

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2016, 07:10:40 AM »
If you are able to make measurements, you might consider using Room EQ Wizard and the Dayton Audio UMM-6 USB measurement mic for sub setup. 

Once it makes measurements, it will display the frequency response.  I just move the subs until I get the flattest results measured one at a time. 

The software is free to download and the mic is about $90 from Parts-Express.  They should be having a sale about now for Presidents Day.

Here is a link to the mic.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-umm-6-usb-measurement-microphone--390-808

Just a thought.

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Offline tmazz

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2016, 08:25:06 AM »
Bob, I was thinking of doing the same thing, so I will be interested to know how it works out for you.

I have a Berringer 8024 and the matching measurement mic if you want to use them to help do the set-up. Let me know.

The mic uses an XLR connector just like the Dayton does, so you might even be able to use it with the Room EQ software.
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Offline jimbones

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2016, 10:00:26 AM »
I have the Omni Mic and frequency sweep pink/white noise discs. If you want to try that just text/pm me. Congrats.
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Offline Werd

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2016, 10:30:40 AM »
My 2 sub strategy is using a raised sub in the forward position in front and one on the floor behind me.  I use an excellent Solid Tech amp stand though and I think that helps. The two subs are not in conflict like that. The forward one fills out the sound stage better and the one behind loads the room. I have given up trying to load the room with a forward sub. It just sounds wrong..
Raised subs are really easy to phase in too as there seems to be no energy build up around the sub. I would measure if I had the gumption and its a good idea, but I would measure into a raised forward sub in mind.
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Offline BobM

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2016, 10:40:32 AM »
I have very little choice on where I can put this second sub, so no need to experiment with placement options. However, I do have a very nice NHT X1 sub crossover that sits between my preamp and amp. It is utterly transparent sounding.

This lets me cut off the bottom frequencies of my Apogees at 50-80Hz (to prevent buzzing) and also lets me dial in the subs very accurately. Lots of adjustment options on this, so I'm certain I can get this integrated to my satisfaction.

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Offline tmazz

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2016, 11:17:50 AM »
Quote from: BobM on February 13, 2016, 10:40:32 AM
I have very little choice on where I can put this second sub, so no need to experiment with placement options. However, I do have a very nice NHT X1 sub crossover that sits between my preamp and amp. It is utterly transparent sounding.

This lets me cut off the bottom frequencies of my Apogees at 50-80Hz (to prevent buzzing) and also lets me dial in the subs very accurately. Lots of adjustment options on this, so I'm certain I can get this integrated to my satisfaction.



You may have a general area that you have to work with , but I would think that just like the main speakers just moving the sub around in very small (like 1/2") increments can find you a spot where they just lock in better than the other places. At that point you if you are locked in to a general area I would think that you have a good enough sense of what your system and your room sound like to be able to dispense with the measurements and fine tune the placement by ear.

And when you move you get to do it all over again!  :D
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Offline Werd

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2016, 02:32:14 PM »
I read a really good explanation of the Fletcher Munson Curve somewhere. I can't remember where. It was titled "there are 2 sound stages in every room. One below the Fletcher-Munson curve and one above". Or something close to that.  My favourite article on bass response and level matching for subs. Dam I can't seem to find it :duh.
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Offline tmazz

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2016, 04:39:37 PM »
Quote from: Werd on February 13, 2016, 02:32:14 PM
I read a really good explanation of the Fletcher Munson Curve somewhere. I can't remember where. It was titled "there are 2 sound stages in every room. One below the Fletcher-Munson curve and one above". Or something close to that.  My favourite article on bass response and level matching for subs. Dam I can't seem to find it :duh.

Memory is the second thing to go.....  :lol:
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Offline mfsoa

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2016, 05:44:07 PM »
Fletcher-Munson says if you want more bass turn the subs up and if you want less turn them down.
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Offline rollo

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2016, 07:59:31 AM »
  If I was you I would sell the REL and make a pair of OB servo subs. Two drivers per side. Very fast to match your Apogees.
   You can also eliminate the crossover as the Rythmic subs have a superior internal crossover.
    your space is limited now however when you move your ready.


charles
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Offline BobM

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2016, 04:50:13 AM »
The sub arrived a few days ago and I have been dialing it in. The Strata III is a floor firing sub, but I've found int he past that it can sound much faster if I turn it upward firing and put a heavy cutting board on the upturned feet. This is the same theory behind raising your front firing sub off the floor and getting it out of the corner. Corners and floor do indeed give them more support, but tend to sound tubby. good for dinosaur thumps but not so great for music.

Anyway, I have been able to set the high pass filter for my Apogees at 80Hz now. This gets rid of the buzzing that happens sometimes when there are a lot of very low frequency sustained tones. The sub's are crossed at about 65 and I think they make a nice transition. Turning them upward firing speeds them up and they integrate with the very fast panels in a good way.

I can now play all those big drum tracks, and heavy pedal point pieces without any breakup. They do rattle the house though. All in all, this is working out as I had hoped.
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Offline jimbones

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2016, 05:18:01 AM »
Its all about the bass
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Offline rollo

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Re: Dual Subs
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2016, 04:40:00 PM »
  Cool enjoy !!!

charles
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