Author Topic: Tidal and Roon.... a wonderful combination  (Read 1291 times)

Offline richidoo

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Re: Tidal and Roon.... a wonderful combination
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2017, 09:06:32 AM »
Can the Hifi/Masters quality Tidal come through Roon? Or have to use Tidal Desktop app to get MQ?
Thanks

Offline RichardS

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Re: Tidal and Roon.... a wonderful combination
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2017, 09:36:22 AM »
Hi Rich
To your first question:
I'm using Room Essentials through an Elac Discovery, so not sure if it's the same, but with mine, if I look up an artist, first it displays frequently listened to tracks, then under that the 'main albums' (with a white background). These are a combination of my music and Tidal albums that I've added to my library. Under that is main albums with a black background. These are Tidal's options that aren't library-added.

But back to the white background main albums: to distinguish, the Tidal ones have the Tidal logo in the upper left corner of the album. Also, if you click on the albums, below the album it will say 'Tidal' and show the logo, whereas my personal albums don't show this but show the recording's info (i.e., Flac, 24 bit, 96kHz, etc.).

At least that's how it shows on my setup--hope that helps... and I'm loving Tidal...

Offline richidoo

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Re: Tidal and Roon.... a wonderful combination
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2017, 02:46:43 PM »
Thanks Richard, that is helpful! I see the Tidal emblem on the album pics.

I've been enjoying Tidal much more after I shut off the SRC.  :-P

Offline tmazz

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Re: Tidal and Roon.... a wonderful combination
« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2017, 07:53:51 AM »
Thanks Richard, that is helpful! I see the Tidal emblem on the album pics.

I've been enjoying Tidal much more after I shut off the SRC.  :-P

OK, I'm having a brain fart.  :roll:

What is SRC and are you turning it of in Tidal or in Roon?
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline tmazz

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Re: Tidal and Roon.... a wonderful combination
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2017, 09:27:38 AM »
Can the Hifi/Masters quality Tidal come through Roon? Or have to use Tidal Desktop app to get MQ?
Thanks

Tidal Masters files are MQA encoded. You can listen to them with any DAC and according to MQA, an MQA encoded file will sound better than a file that was not MQA encoded , even when played through a standard redbook DAC. (This is the same kind of claim we got when HDCD was introduced). To get the true benefit of MQA you need to decode it . The Tidal App will decode MQA in software. I do not believe that Roon has any MQA software built into it, but there is no reason that an MQA file could not be passed through it and decoded further on down the chain. For example my Bluesound Node does software MQA decoding so if  I was using Roon in conjunction with the Node  I cannot see any reason why I would not get the 24/96 quailty that comes from MQA software decoding. And likewise, if I had a DAC with MQA hardware decoding I should get the 24/192 like resolution that it is capable of providing. As long as Roon does not alter the redbook signal it is passing through there should be no reason why it cannot be used with a downstream MQA device.

Roon is supposedly working on incorporating a MQA software decoder in a future release, but I have yet to see any kind of schedule for it's availability.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/mqa-decoder-needed-in-roon/19297/22

On another note check out the latest Tidal releases in the Masters section. Over the past few weeks they have started to release a number of albums  from the early Blue Note catalog. Good stuff.  :drool:
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline richidoo

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Re: Tidal and Roon.... a wonderful combination
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2017, 11:08:42 AM »
Thanks Tom, will check out the MQAs on Tidal. I can connect my laptop with Tidal desktop app direct to my DAC to compare the sound with MQA and without, through Roon.

Roon's DSP section has a component called SRC, or Sample Rate Conversion. It allows selecting which sample rate to upsample to, as well as what filter should be applied to the upsampled data. I had SRC cranked up all the way to the "Max 2x" setting. There is no DSD setting appearing on mine despite my hardware is DSD capable.

The 4 filters in Roon SRC are Precise Linear Phase, Precise Minimum Phase, Smooth Linear Phase, Smooth Minimum Phase. You must choose one, there is no option for no filter, and all of them mess up the tone to my ears in some way. ymmv

Offline tmazz

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Re: Tidal and Roon.... a wonderful combination
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2017, 08:43:42 PM »
Thanks Tom, will check out the MQAs on Tidal. I can connect my laptop with Tidal desktop app direct to my DAC to compare the sound with MQA and without, through Roon.

Roon's DSP section has a component called SRC, or Sample Rate Conversion. It allows selecting which sample rate to upsample to, as well as what filter should be applied to the upsampled data. I had SRC cranked up all the way to the "Max 2x" setting. There is no DSD setting appearing on mine despite my hardware is DSD capable.

The 4 filters in Roon SRC are Precise Linear Phase, Precise Minimum Phase, Smooth Linear Phase, Smooth Minimum Phase. You must choose one, there is no option for no filter, and all of them mess up the tone to my ears in some way. ymmv

OK, it's a Roon thing and not something in Tidal. That's why I didn't recognize it.

One of these days I will get around to playing with Roon.
Remember, it's all about the music........

Nola Boxers
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Quicksilver Mid Monos
ARC SP-9
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Offline richidoo

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Re: Tidal and Roon.... a wonderful combination
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2017, 07:01:23 PM »
I am enjoying having the Tidal albums available to hear new music. My friend Steve brought over dozen new CDs yesterday, and I get email newsletter pushing new albums, I can hear them all for "free" and no waiting for shipping.

I noticed that you have to do a "+Add To Library" command on the Tidal album before Roon will bling it. It doesn't download the flacs, but it incorporates the metadata into the Roon database so it can do the metadata magic.

I got the DSD upsampling working in Roon with help from a Roonmaster. So now I can send DSD256 to my DAC through the NAA. Sounds very smooth and refined, very hifi. But the life is stripped out of the music, same as with the slower sample rate upsampling. Maybe it is the nature of the SRC, or maybe it is Roon's version. To be honest, with jitter eliminated I have no problem with redbook. It sounds better than DSD SRC to me. The SRC kills transients, leading edge attack, removes air and spatial cues, and ruins the natural complex tone and the harmonic resonances of acoustic instruments like piano and strings. The rawness is gone. I can understand how some people want some vaseline on the lens, but I prefer to hear the full complexity of the tone and have the feeling of life that come with the faster sound. ymmv

Offline richidoo

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Re: Tidal and Roon.... a wonderful combination
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2017, 07:46:36 PM »
To clarify, it's not miserably awful as I made it sound, but on well recorded acoustic albums it's obvious.

"Produced" albums don't sound any different from turning on roon SRC. I had the idea that maybe they have already been exposed to SRC during mastering, etc.

I can easily hear the affects of switching on roon SRC on these two albums
Bud Powell - Time Waits (RVG remaster)
Jupiter Quartet - Shostakovich #3

I can't hear the affect with most pop records and this otherwise extremely well recorded bluegrass
Tim O'Brien - Memories and Moments