AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Analog Devices => Topic started by: S Clark on August 17, 2017, 06:29:05 PM
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I pulled out a copy of Dvorak's 4th (or 8th, depending on publisher) Sym in G on an old blue Angel label. Put it on and listened to the first side as I read the notes. As I read, I noticed that it was thin on bass and a bit flat sounding played with a Dynavector 10x5. As I kept reading, it stated that it was a mono recording from 1962, when most labels still had mono lathes. It had been misfiled in with my stereo lp's. I played the flip side on my mono rig with a Denon 102, and what a difference. Bass, depth, hall reverb all appeared.
I find quite few very nice mono lp's, and it's my experience that you really need a dedicated cartridge to get the most out of them.
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What about new Mono reissues? Are you noticing a difference with them as well between the 2 rigs?
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I couldn't say about new mono reissues. I don't own one nor heard one. My suspicion is that most mono newer than the late 60's would not benefit from a mono cart. But I can't say from experience.
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Hey Man I have been trying to convince the masses about great mono with a mono cart. The ones who try are just so happy. ENJOY !!!!
charles
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Charles, any input to Putz's question? What about newer reissues of mono lp's? I read somewhere that Columbia ditched their mono lathes around 1965. Don't know about the rest.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I believe '65 is correct. Modern monos are cut differently
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I have a mono cart set up on a Technics TT but sadly it's sitting in a shelf currently
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I pulled out a copy of Dvorak's 4th (or 8th, depending on publisher) Sym in G on an old blue Angel label. Put it on and listened to the first side as I read the notes. As I read, I noticed that it was thin on bass and a bit flat sounding played with a Dynavector 10x5. As I kept reading, it stated that it was a mono recording from 1962, when most labels still had mono lathes. It had been misfiled in with my stereo lp's. I played the flip side on my mono rig with a Denon 102, and what a difference. Bass, depth, hall reverb all appeared.
I find quite few very nice mono lp's, and it's my experience that you really need a dedicated cartridge to get the most out of them.
Thats really interesting!
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Reason being a stereo cart. stylus is just not the right fit in the grooves. Mono cart is wider as well as groove. The stereo cart wiggles side to side causing bad stuff like vocal distortion, weak bass and scratchy highs with lots of noise to boot.
Older mono recordings benefit from a mono cart. If mono and cut in stereo lathe stick to stereo cart. Many new mono reissues are not true mono. Hence the debate on buying them.
If you own many true mono recordings a mono cart will reap the benefit. If reissued mono save your money. Then there are the proper RIAA curves for each label. Decca, RCA are different. When one hears the correct RIAA/label with a mono cart bliss baby. I prefer many Jazz recordings in mono over stereo with proper RIAA and mono cart. Anyday.
charles
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I've also read that when RCA made mono master tapes, they used all the tape for one channel, creating less saturation and a lower noise floor. I've been buying mono like a madman over the past 5-6 years since they are usually 1/4 the price of stereo. I find that piano and concertos work well in mono.
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I've also read that when RCA made mono master tapes, they used all the tape for one channel, creating less saturation and a lower noise floor. I've been buying mono like a madman over the past 5-6 years since they are usually 1/4 the price of stereo. I find that piano and concertos work well in mono.
Agreed as well as small Jazz combos. The only thing to do if you can is but a phono pre with the proper equalization for them. If you think you heard great mono wait. :thumb:
charles
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That's an interesting response. I've got several phono pre's- a Vista, a Graham Slee Gold, and a Dodd. But none are set up to specifically play mono. I wonder if Boris can mod the Vista?
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...and I forgot a Jolida.
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Grahm Slee makes a mono PS with adj. curves. Tempo Elec makes a state of the art adj. curve unit The Vadlyd MDmk4 is a killer as well.
charles
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I'll be borrowing a Graham Slee with adjustaable RAII curves tomorrow.
Charles, if this is a big step up, I'll be singing your praises while my wife curses your name.
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I guess it depends on the mono pre you buy. FM acoustics I'm dead.
charles
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Graham Slee is OK at best
get a good mono cart like miyajima zero, that will have the biggest effect
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Graham Slee is OK at best
get a good mono cart like miyajima zero, that will have the biggest effect
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I'm sure you're right. I would certainly hope there was a big difference in the performance of a $2000 cartridge compared to a $200 one.
But it doesn't matter to since I'm not spending those kind of bucks for mono.
What options are in between?
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Check out the Graham Slee first. Oh yes the Miyajima is a great cart however the Grado at $100 is no slouch to start with. You really can get some great advice from Rob Wyatt on mono. If you speak with him mention me.
charles
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I'll contact Mr. Wyatt and pick his brain. Thanks for the tip. I emailed Boris at Vista to see if he had any interest in designing a mono pre. He has done such good work with the his stereo phono pre's at an intro level price, I thought I'd see if he might do something similar with mono. He said that the curves were so highly variable that it was hard to get good info on the early 50's to late 50's stuff. He had looked at it and decided not to pursue it. I've got the G.Slee unit coming next week and will see what it yields.
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Why can't you just use a single channel of a stereo preamp for mono carts?
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Why can't you just use a single channel of a stereo preamp for mono carts?
You can. Or in the case of the Denon 102 cartridge, the post of the cartridge are extra long to allow two leads on each post, sending the signal to both channels of your stereo phonostage. But a dedicated mono pre, or a highly adjustable stereo pre, can equalize to match older curves (in theory). My buddy's Graham Slee Revelation M phonostage has setting positions for Decca vs. Mercury vs. RCA- don't know how effective they are.
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I see! Thanks
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WELL any news or changes or anything ??
charles
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WELL any news or changes or anything ??
charles
Not directly. The Graham Slee I meant to borrow has been out of pocket. But I did read an interesting article the other night about the Denon 102. One of the reasons it rough records more cleanly has to do with the orientation of the magnets in the Denon only pick up in one plane (horizontal) and most scratches result in vertical displacement. On an older mono vinyl, there is no music information vertically. A stereo cart has magnets oriented in such a way that they do pick up a scratch vertically.
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"One of the reasons it rough records more cleanly "
What I meant to say was it PLAYS rough records more cleanly.
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WELL any news or changes or anything ??
charles
Not directly. The Graham Slee I meant to borrow has been out of pocket. But I did read an interesting article the other night about the Denon 102. One of the reasons it rough records more cleanly has to do with the orientation of the magnets in the Denon only pick up in one plane (horizontal) and most scratches result in vertical displacement. On an older mono vinyl, there is no music information vertically. A stereo cart has magnets oriented in such a way that they do pick up a scratch vertically.
Exactly why one needs to be careful when buying a mono cartridge that it is a true mono design. A number of the carts sold today as Mono are simply stereo carts that are wired to sum the outputs of the left and right channel into a single mono signal. A summed mono cart will read the scratch as the stereo inards are reading in the vertical direction. Of course the advantage of a summed mono cart is that it will give you a mono signal that contains both channels if you are playing a stereop record. But if you already have a stereo cart and are buy the mono one as a second unit just for mono records, be sure that whatever you pick is a true mono design. Like everything else, you need to match the tool to the task at hand.
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Correct Tom. Can you say Myajima ? If one owns numerous mono LPs get another TT or second arm and use a mono cart. No turning bach ! Such a staggering difference especially with respect to noise NONE ! Music is deep in groove not on sides like stereo.
charles