Author Topic: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub  (Read 39725 times)

Offline dBe

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2017, 09:59:31 PM »
Now, AJ in Fl over on another audio site makes a damn fine speaker using a cheaper version of the LS50 driver.  KEF put him out of business, but you might contact him anyway.   
Hi Scott, I'm here too :-).
KEF indeed put the kibosh on that model, but I'm still in business. I'll have a replacement eventually (ironically, was testing a new coax driver last night). I don't do Soundfield for a living, so I move at a rather leisurely pace. :D

cheers,

AJ
Glad you are here, AJ.  Any additional info on that speaker?

Offline dBe

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2017, 10:01:42 PM »
Would Kef LS50 work?  I have not heard them but they seem to get high praise on the net :)
A friend brought his up for a weekend and compared to my GR-Research N-2X kit speaker.  I liked the GR product better, better instrument placement detail. 
Now, AJ in Fl over on another audio site makes a damn fine speaker using a cheaper version of the LS50 driver.  KEF put him out of business, but you might contact him anyway. 
Other than that, I've heard a little Revel bookshelf that were really impressive.  Detail, space, soundstage... but they weren't cheap.  I'll  find the model and get back.
Kick Danny's butt (easy on his shoulder) and get him over here!  I've tried...

Offline AJ Soundfield

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2017, 05:08:55 AM »
Glad you are here, AJ.  Any additional info on that speaker?
Just continued evolution of M1, i.e. a coax + sub in one box. The KEF driver design was SOTA, so tough act to follow. Throwing in a replacement for the sake of sales is a non option for anything carrying my name. That's why I have a real job. :D
PE dropping their square boxes for curved sides only didn't help either, when it comes to placing a plate amp on the back...and keeping a lid on costs.
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Offline rollo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2017, 12:17:34 PM »
I had AJ's design for awhile. Great speaker. Talented Man that AJ.




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Offline AJ Soundfield

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2017, 08:00:35 AM »
hi aj!

yes, i heard your m1 and the 1812 at the capital audio fest a while back; both fantastic.  glad to hear you're still doing your thing!   
Hi Doug, good to see you here (and there), thanks, glad you enjoyed them. Capfest was one of my most enjoyable shows, many friends up that way too.
I understand KEFs reasoning, the "spare" driver supply were intended for replacement parts, not DIYers! I also understand not wanting to sell competitors hard earned research technology. I respect their decision. Yep, too bad for manufacturer's like me, but DIYers can still yank the drivers from finished speakers if so desired.

but, if you're using the seas prestige coax, (looks like it in your website pic), i trust that you will still have something special for your typical "loss leader" price for that product!  :)  and, your new 1812 looks fabulous - i can only imagine how good it must be if it's better than the 1st iteration i heard.  ;)  is it coming to the dc show in the  fall?
The Seas remains in contention. It's a pretty nice driver. Biggest problem was PE losing cabinet maker, then following up by dropping straight side box for only curved narrow rear cabinet. No one made a 4.5" wide plate amp to drive the sub. We'll see later this year if one does.
Yes the final version of the 1812 sounds a bit better than the one you heard. Never say never, but no plans for DC..or any show in near future. It was fun, but a major PITA, given it is not my mainstay, but just a "side" business. I've gotten a lot busier and older/grumpy. Almost like Charles  :rofl:
The plan is to shift from shows, to producing "touring" models of each speaker. Shows are great, but they still don't tell how a speaker sounds in your room/system.

cheers,

AJ
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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2017, 12:34:04 PM »
I have been laying very low for some time as I had a complication from knee surgery the beginning of August. I would not wish this on my worst enemy. But the rehab....getting my range of motion back...is getting better. So yesterday a friend Gary drove up from Las Vegas to hook up the Nola’s for me. The instructions are sparse. Both Gary and I commented on that. The placement is not ideal as I have a big cabinet right now and the sub is supposed to be placed about 38” behind the front of the Nola satellites. Initially, we weren’t as precise with placement and it appeared the sound was coming from a tunnel. We then tried to get max distance of maybe 18” and it sounded better. Playing them this morning, the top end is a bit hot, so I’ll keep putting lots of hours on them. I must say they present a large soundstage and sound pretty good. It also makes me appreciate how good my SP Techs are. Also, I now have one 8” woofer vs the two 8” drivers I had with the SP Techs. Lots to think about
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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2017, 01:35:25 PM »
Putting more hours on the Nola’s. That upper midrange glare is still present. Harshness on violins, female vocals....it’s just too much. After I installed the Uber, that tendency was gone with my SP Techs. The Nola’s are placed similar in the room. I haven’t really fiddled with the sub gain and crossover controls. I would think that would not have any effect on this problem.
Does anyone know the particulars on the 3.5 inch drivers in the Nola satellites? ....who makes them, what are the break in characteristics.....
I’ve reread this thread a few times...some speakers are too big like the SP Techs, too heavy 65 lbs etc
I am intrigued with the Boenicke W5s and the Legacy Calibre. Only way to swing that is buying used.
The Danny Ritchie NX 2 is intriguing...great price, better than my SPs per Danny and he was buds with Bob Smith, the SP Timepiece designer.
I should mention that I like to crank ‘em up....high 70s to mid 80s at about 10 feet.
Any comments appreciated
Nick
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Offline Scottdazzle

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2017, 04:30:36 PM »
The Fritz Carrera 7BE is the finest 2-way bookshelf speaker I have ever heard. I have a pair if anyone near DC wants to give them a listen. Berylium tweeter that is detailed but not bright with no hint of sibilance. Revelator 7-inch mid woofer that goes low with authority. Clean, open midrange without of boxiness. Huge soundstage. Very nice cabinetry. And they present any easy load to the amp. Fritzspeakers deserve a lot more fame than they get. If any of the mainstream companies made them they'd get full-page ads and cost $8000 a pair. 
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Offline richidoo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2017, 07:06:38 PM »
Putting more hours on the Nola’s. That upper midrange glare is still present. Harshness on violins, female vocals....it’s just too much. After I installed the Uber, that tendency was gone with my SP Techs. The Nola’s are placed similar in the room. I haven’t really fiddled with the sub gain and crossover controls. I would think that would not have any effect on this problem.
Does anyone know the particulars on the 3.5 inch drivers in the Nola satellites? ....who makes them, what are the break in characteristics....."

They look to me like the same Tymphany TC9FD18 coated paper cone drivers that I'm using in my line arrays. Mine are 8 ohms with foam gasket on the frame. The Nola drivers are, according to this thread, the 16 ohm version without foam gasket.

As for break in, the treble shouldn't change much and will settle down quickly. The bass is what takes some time (50hours) to sound loose and open, as well as getting the deepest bass. These drivers are known to sound pretty good top to bottom as single drivers or multiple drivers per speaker. They don't have a reputation for rough treble. You can do a quick experiment by putting a couple small pieces of blue tape on the center dust caps. I think the blue tape will peel off easily without damaging the driver paint. That will damp any high frequency misbehavior of the dust cap if it's bending, but I doubt it, Tymphany (formerly Peerless, Vifa) is solid engineering.

Quote
I’ve reread this thread a few times...some speakers are too big like the SP Techs, too heavy 65 lbs etc
I am intrigued with the Boenicke W5s and the Legacy Calibre. Only way to swing that is buying used.

Calibre is just as big as Timepieces. Calibre will bring upgraditis. It's not available used yet as it is too new, and there are few Legacys are available used now anyway, they're keepers.

Quote
The Danny Ritchie NX 2 is intriguing...great price, better than my SPs per Danny and he was buds with Bob Smith, the SP Timepiece designer.
...not

Quote
I should mention that I like to crank ‘em up....high 70s to mid 80s at about 10 feet.
Any comments appreciated
Nick

Keep the SPs!

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2017, 08:07:12 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  Much appreciated. Thanks for finding the driver info, Rich. Not sure why it all didn’t work out, but with much effort, I got my SPs back on the pedestals and we are happily coexisting. In addition to the harshness, I wasn’t a fan of having a sub...more wires, power cord etc. Fiddling with adjustments I can’t easily see. But I’m glad I tried the Nola’s.
It was interesting looking up the various recommended speakers. I read up on each one. I’ve heard of Fritz stuff for years and the write ups on the Carrera 7BE are great and the description regarding tonality and vocals is enticing. Maybe down the road when the used price is reasonable..... Really hadn’t heard of the Philharmonic Audio stuff. Will read a little more about them.
Anyway, that’s the scoop.
Now to evaluate my amp and dac.....
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
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Offline AJ Soundfield

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2017, 06:45:10 PM »
They look to me like the same Tymphany TC9FD18
If that is the case and they didn't use a notch and/or shelving filter, the peak between 8-9k would add an edginess and sibilance on some material.


Keep the SPs!
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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2018, 05:22:57 PM »
Well, I bought used KEF LS 50s for a great price of $750 including shipping. Seems the guy is moving overseas and didn’t want to incur the shipping costs. I also saw a used ATC SCM 19 for $2,500, but that’s way more of a risk. Both are Stereophile Class A LF (limited frequency) fwiw.

My thought regarding the KEFs were that they will likely be similar in performance to my old SP Techs, but probably not have quite the bass response. They are also inefficient at 85 db and I may be stuck needing the power of my McCormack DNA 1 Gold. But that is not a bad amp to be stuck with.....

After all the searching, emails and phone calls that I made, I did make the decision that I wanted exemplary treble. My hunch is that the LS 50s won’t quite hit the mark in that regard. If they do, I may add a compact sub. REL does have a chart what sub to mate with the LS 50s and that’s at least a starting point. Buying these also allows me to sell my turntable and maybe my phono preamp to free up some cash. If I do audition new stuff, it would likely be the Aurum Cantus and/or the Evolution Acoustics Micro Ones. I sure like the idea of a trial period. I learned a lot about subs and tweeters during the search time. I’ll likely make separate posts about those under a different category later.

To all those who chimed in with thoughts and suggestions, I really appreciate the help
Nick.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 08:07:03 PM by Nick B »
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
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Offline richidoo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2018, 08:00:27 PM »
Congrats on the LS50s Nick. I've been curious about those, but never heard them. You will like the coherency or coax driver, and the clean bass of the very optimized reflex port. It is a VERY high technology design. With enough power they always seem to impress. Your amp will be perfect for those.

Did jbtrio have the MicroOnes? I think we talked about those here in AN a couple 3 years ago, do a search.

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2018, 08:56:37 PM »
Congrats on the LS50s Nick. I've been curious about those, but never heard them. You will like the coherency or coax driver, and the clean bass of the very optimized reflex port. It is a VERY high technology design. With enough power they always seem to impress. Your amp will be perfect for those.

Did jbtrio have the MicroOnes? I think we talked about those here in AN a couple 3 years ago, do a search.

Thanks, Rich. I read a couple of threads that mentioned the Micro Ones back in 2011 and 2013 iirc. I think that jbtrio did have them as it appears he made a recommendation to another member. I’m looking forward to the LS 50s and just having some decent sound....sorry YouTube.
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #59 on: March 19, 2018, 10:17:45 PM »
Well, I bought used KEF LS 50s for a great price of $750 including shipping. Seems the guy is moving overseas and didn’t want to incur the shipping costs. I also saw a used ATC SCM 19 for $2,500, but that’s way more of a risk. Both are Stereophile Class A LF (limited frequency) fwiw.

My thought regarding the KEFs were that they will likely be similar in performance to my old SP Techs, but probably not have quite the bass response. They are also inefficient at 85 db and I may be stuck needing the power of my McCormack DNA 1. But that is not a bad amp to be stuck with.....

After all the searching, emails and phone calls that I made, I did make the decision that I wanted exemplary treble. My hunch is that the LS 50s won’t quite hit the mark in that regard. If they do, I may add a compact sub. REL does have a chart what sub to mate with the LS 50s and that’s at least a starting point. Buying these also allows me to sell my turntable and maybe my phono preamp to free up some cash. If I do audition new stuff, it would likely be the Aurum Cantus and/or the Evolution Acoustics Micro Ones. I sure like the idea of a trial period. I learned a lot about subs and tweeters during the search time. I’ll likely make separate posts about those under a different category later.

To all those who chimed in with thoughts and suggestions, I really appreciate the help
Nick.
congrats on the purchase!  i think that, in general, especially if you're not exactly sure what you want, that buying used is always the best bet, because you won't ever take a big financial bath.  re: subs, give serious consideration to the rythmik L12's, at your  size/price point.  here's one case where it may not be so bad to buy new, just because of the price/performance ratio, and you may have a long wait to find a used L12.  spend twice as much on a rel - even used - and i doubt you will get performance as good.  and, you can buy from ascend acoustics and and get free in-home trial.  you'd be out return shipping, if you decided to send 'em back.  the oak finish is the same price as on rythmik's site; but the matte finish is a little cheaper on the rythmik site.  not sure if buying direct from rythmik will give you the in-home trial.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/l12.html

also, for used, i would look into the newer definitive technology subercube line of subs.  again, good performance for the price.  and relatively common enough that you could find a nice one used for not a lot of $$$.

and, coincidentally, i think you might enjoy checking out this pic - just last night, i finally got my system set up in the main room.  no, the oris horns and custom modded klipsch lascala bass-bins are still in the basement.  no, the piega's are in the bedroom.  no, the gemme tanto's are still in boxes, in the basement, as well.  no, i haven't set up the deqx; i am using my marchand outboard active x-over.  but the recently refurb'd and porzilli-modded ma333r is up, the vmps larger's are in place being driven by my electrocompaniet aw75dmb's, the Cinepro PowerPro 20 (never before used!) is sending balanced power to the amps and x-over, which frees up the furman balanced power conditioner for the preamp and front end gear, (along with other misc lab grade isolation transformers and a custom felix). and the mesa baron is running, set at 80wpc - 1/3 pentode - 2/3 triode setting, with 0db negative feedback.  check out the main monitors being used, that the baron is driving...   8)


enjoy the new speakers; i really think you will.  i'll be surprised if you don't find need for a sub.  but i will also be surprised if you think they're deficient in any other area - including the treble.  all the hype about 'em is not just hype, imo.  not sure why this allows you to sell your turntable and maybe your phono preamp, tho - i'd think that it would make you want to buy more vinyl!   :D

doug s.

Thanks, Doug. You really contributed a lot with your suggestions. Very much appreciated! If the treble is as good as you imply, I’ll definitely add a sub. Now as to subs, I still want a smaller one than the Rythmik. I am still trying to downsize. I was on the Definitive Technology site and the Supercube 2000 is just the right size and price. Only problem is the LFE connection for a receiver. I’m not a REL enthusiast...I simply like that they have a small footprint and the speakon connector and single wire and ever so simple connection to the amp is great. No extra 6’ ic’s needed. I’ll do some more searching and maybe some other companies connect the same way that the RELs do.
https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/rel-t-5i-subwoofer
As to selling my analog gear, some audio purchases have left me a bit short of funds and the sale(s) would help out. My wife would be thrilled...and actually me as well....to get rid of 500 CDs and maybe 600 albums. And the Basis TT is one heavy beast. It’s all part if the downsizing thing. The more we do it, the better we feel. Cant say I miss one thing we’ve given away, BUT the analog rig I’d miss even though I haven’t played an album in years.
Nick
PS I kept looking for a used Boenicke W5, but never came across one. That one I certainly would have bought immediately. Oh, your monitor sure looks real familiar 😃😃
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS