Author Topic: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub  (Read 39642 times)

Offline P.I.

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #60 on: March 20, 2018, 04:48:43 PM »
The Fritz Carrera 7BE is the finest 2-way bookshelf speaker I have ever heard. I have a pair if anyone near DC wants to give them a listen. Berylium tweeter that is detailed but not bright with no hint of sibilance. Revelator 7-inch mid woofer that goes low with authority. Clean, open midrange without of boxiness. Huge soundstage. Very nice cabinetry. And they present any easy load to the amp. Fritzspeakers deserve a lot more fame than they get. If any of the mainstream companies made them they'd get full-page ads and cost $8000 a pair.
Howdy, Scott!
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline tmazz

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #61 on: March 20, 2018, 06:50:07 PM »
The LS-50s are great speakers. I've heard them do some amazing things for something that small in size.
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #62 on: March 20, 2018, 08:54:24 PM »
The LS-50s are great speakers. I've heard them do some amazing things for something that small in size.

At a show or someone’s home? My experience is YouTube videos
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Offline tmazz

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2018, 03:58:38 AM »
The LS-50s are great speakers. I've heard them do some amazing things for something that small in size.

At a show or someone’s home? My experience is YouTube videos

In a showroom at an old fashioned brick and mortar high end audio store.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2018, 03:14:35 PM »
The Fritz Carrera 7BE is the finest 2-way bookshelf speaker I have ever heard. I have a pair if anyone near DC wants to give them a listen. Berylium tweeter that is detailed but not bright with no hint of sibilance. Revelator 7-inch mid woofer that goes low with authority. Clean, open midrange without of boxiness. Huge soundstage. Very nice cabinetry. And they present any easy load to the amp. Fritzspeakers deserve a lot more fame than they get. If any of the mainstream companies made them they'd get full-page ads and cost $8000 a pair.
Howdy, Scott!

Sigh....don’t doubt it’s superb, but $3,500 was the max I was willing to go and I wasn’t ready to pull the trigger. Fritz had a beautiful walnut BE for me and promised a follow up phone call to discuss particulars, but he didn’t call and so the momentum of the deal was lost.....
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2018, 06:54:28 PM »
Thanks, Doug. You really contributed a lot with your suggestions. Very much appreciated! If the treble is as good as you imply, I’ll definitely add a sub. Now as to subs, I still want a smaller one than the Rythmik. I am still trying to downsize. I was on the Definitive Technology site and the Supercube 2000 is just the right size and price. Only problem is the LFE connection for a receiver. I’m not a REL enthusiast...I simply like that they have a small footprint and the speakon connector and single wire and ever so simple connection to the amp is great. No extra 6’ ic’s needed. I’ll do some more searching and maybe some other companies connect the same way that the RELs do.
https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/rel-t-5i-subwoofer
As to selling my analog gear, some audio purchases have left me a bit short of funds and the sale(s) would help out. My wife would be thrilled...and actually me as well....to get rid of 500 CDs and maybe 600 albums. And the Basis TT is one heavy beast. It’s all part if the downsizing thing. The more we do it, the better we feel. Cant say I miss one thing we’ve given away, BUT the analog rig I’d miss even though I haven’t played an album in years.
Nick
PS I kept looking for a used Boenicke W5, but never came across one. That one I certainly would have bought immediately. Oh, your monitor sure looks real familiar 😃😃
re: subs, i think the def tech supercube 2000 is way too primitive in its amplification/electronics.  if you're wanting smaller than the rythmik L2, look at the def tech supercube 4000.  maybe a bit bigger than the rel's you were looking at. but still on the small side, at ~13" x 12" x 13".  rel is selling them new on their website at $600 (25%) off.

or, buy today, for $500:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/183137069274?rmvSB=true
or, used, but includes wireless kit:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/162948280334?rmvSB=true

or, get one of these sellers to accept less, based on the above, and that the mfr is asking $600 shipped:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173208794419?rmvSB=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183059879748?rmvSB=true

and, regarding subwoofer connections, an inexpensive ic to a sub's power amp is better than an inexpensive speaker wire to a sub's hi-level input.  in most cases, it will sound better using the sub's line input.  less internal electronics work needed by the sub's amp/crossover..

another non-rel/non-rythmik option:
https://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials/products/sb-1000-black-ash-outlet-1
https://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials/products/sb-1000-piano-gloss-outlet-1152
https://www.ebay.com/itm/152908215128?rmvSB=true
https://www.ebay.com/itm/352172736901?rmvSB=true
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173158485967?rmvSB=true
https://www.ebay.com/itm/162902688865?rmvSB=true (this is the cheapest, not used)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112871365176?rmvSB=true (this is the cheapest, at least so far..)

or:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Sunfire+subwoofer&_sop=15
(too many for me to search thru...)

re: speakers in general, at  some point try to listen to dennis murphy's philharmonic audio speakers.  just unreal performance for the price, as i have said before.  i heard his philharmonic audio 3's, which were truly mind blowing; as well as the phenomenal "slims tower" (no longer listed on his site).  it's my understanding that the philharmonitor has taken its place, offering pretty-much the same performance, in a smaller package w/a lower price.  retailing between $1350 & $1600 depending on cabinet, i am certain it's amazingly good.  check out the reviews, both from the pros, and from customers.
http://www.philharmonicaudio.com/reviews.html

i especially loved this one from michael barnes, former owner (and founder/chief designer) of norh audio, who reviewed the $210/pair (?!?) Affordable Accuracy Monitor (it's a long read, but worth it):
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1348949-philharmonic-audio-dennis-murphy-186.html#post46747241

now, 'scuse me, radio fip from france is playing on the grace internet tuner on the main rig in the next room, and i need to get to the sweet spot...   8)

doug s.


Well, I looked at lots of subs last night and will again tonight. Spoke with SVS and the rep said to go with the larger SB 2000. I may just buy a very cheap sub for now to see the effect it’ll have on the LS 50s performance. Also, I lost money on the sale of the Nolas and will lose on the sale of the Mark Audio single drivers. So maybe conservative for just a little while is the way to go. Maybe Blue Jeans cable or Monoprice etc will have some decent, cheap ic’s to hook up the sub. I was told I need another pre out on my dac/linestage pass thru, which I don’t have. So maybe an RCA y splitter? is what I’ll need as well.
As to the Philharmonitors, I had sent Dennis an email and was seriously considering it, but he didn’t get back to me.
I read up a lot on the Philharmonitors and iirc the tweeter and woofer were excellent and the mid driver an off the shelf inexpensive unit but was implemented very well. I may give them a listen at some point, but would you expect the performance to be a definite step up from the LS 50s with a good sub?
The Michael Barnes article was very good indeed, especially from an experienced designer like him.
It’s quite interesting to learn that very inexpensive drivers can produce good sound. I’m just not exposed to that very much, so it’s great getting that information via the forum.
I’m off to California for a few days, so maybe audio will just have to wait
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 06:57:40 PM by Nick B »
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
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JMR Voce Grande speakers
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Offline tmazz

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2018, 10:49:26 PM »
Based on my recent experience, I would strongly recommend that you put off buying a sub intil you have lived with the LS50s for a while. I ended up adding two carver subs to my Nola Boxers and after I had set them up using all of the manufacturer's recommended procedures for level setting I was absolutely shocked at how low of a volume I need to play them at to get the balance levels between the subs and the speakers that Carver recommends. (The setup was done with test CDs and an SPL meter)I don't know how much of it may be room reinforcement and how much of it is the speakers themselves, but the Boxers put out an amazing quantity and quality of bass for the size drivers that they use, and I suspect you may be in a similar situation with the LS 50s. I ran out and bought subs because I though I had to with a pair of small speakers like that, when in reality they really don't add a whole lot and I probably could have been perfectly happy without them.

Now your room and your speakers may present a totally different situation and you might get a big improvement from adding a sub. My only point is that conventional thinking for many years has been small speaker equals need for a sub (or two) and with today's speaker technologies this is not always the case, so live with the speakers a while and see if you find a hole that needs filling with a sub. Not saying you shouldn't buy a sub, just that you shouldn't automatically assume you'll need one. You might just end up saving yourself some time, trouble and $s.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline tmazz

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2018, 10:58:49 PM »
Well, I looked at lots of subs last night and will again tonight. Spoke with SVS and the rep said to go with the larger SB 2000. I may just buy a very cheap sub for now to see the effect it’ll have on the LS 50s performance. Also, I lost money on the sale of the Nolas and will lose on the sale of the Mark Audio single drivers. So maybe conservative for just a little while is the way to go. Maybe Blue Jeans cable or Monoprice etc will have some decent, cheap ic’s to hook up the sub. I was told I need another pre out on my dac/linestage pass thru, which I don’t have. So maybe an RCA y splitter? is what I’ll need as well.
As to the Philharmonitors, I had sent Dennis an email and was seriously considering it, but he didn’t get back to me.
I read up a lot on the Philharmonitors and iirc the tweeter and woofer were excellent and the mid driver an off the shelf inexpensive unit but was implemented very well. I may give them a listen at some point, but would you expect the performance to be a definite step up from the LS 50s with a good sub?
The Michael Barnes article was very good indeed, especially from an experienced designer like him.
It’s quite interesting to learn that very inexpensive drivers can produce good sound. I’m just not exposed to that very much, so it’s great getting that information via the forum.
I’m off to California for a few days, so maybe audio will just have to wait
of course svs would say get the bigger one!   :rofl:  i would, too, but you say you want small, so get the smaller one!   :D

and, re: your experience w/nola and mark audio, that's why i recommend buying used; so you won't lose any money if/when you sell.  if you recall, the 1st philharmonitor i recommended to you was used, for something like asking price of $800.  would it be better than the ls50 w/sub?  i dunno, i think you really need to hear both in your own system and in your own room, and decide for yourself.  but regardless, either one would be excellent, and buying used allows you the luxury of buying both, comparing, then selling what you don't want w/o having to lose a lot of cash.

re: rca y-splitters, i am using something like these right now, they work well.

i don't know what brand mine are, but if i were buying now, i would try to find all copper w/gold plating, instead of brass - i know more now than i did then, ha!

enjoy the trip to cali.

doug s.

I got similar Audioquest branded splitters from AudioAdvisor for $12.95 a piece

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AQM22FHRD
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #68 on: March 21, 2018, 11:15:10 PM »
Yes, I’ll live with the LS 50s for a while before thinking about a sub. It’ll be great to play my favorite tunes and go Tidal surfing again.
As to the SVS sales guy, he said the 2000 would resolve slightly better and fill the room a bit more.
So I really don’t know if he’s feeding me bs or...., but I’ll probably find out one of these days 😳
Thanks for the splitters info. That’s what I’ll need. Off to California in a few hours. A great place to visit, but an even better place to leave
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline rollo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2018, 08:05:38 AM »
   Nick enjoy ! SVS are quite good however I would recommend Rythmic instead. Servo controlled is the key word. Calif. lived in San Diego for a year. Beautiful place then [ 1970]. Now ruined by lunatic progressive BS.

charles

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Offline P.I.

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #70 on: March 22, 2018, 01:52:26 PM »
   Nick enjoy ! SVS are quite good however I would recommend Rythmic instead. Servo controlled is the key word. Calif. lived in San Diego for a year. Beautiful place then [ 1970]. Now ruined by lunatic progressive BS.

charles
  +1 on what Charles said.  The most amazing, low reaching, impactful and tuneful bass are the sensing coil servo controlled speakers there are are from Brian Ding and Danny Richie.  Accelleromaeter based servo control is always wrong sounding in the PRAT context.  They just sound slow in comparison the the Rythmik and GR subs. Open baffle is stunning in they way it doesn't load the room and sound boomy.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 01:55:16 PM by P.I. »
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Offline Danny Richie

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #71 on: March 23, 2018, 09:03:05 AM »
Thanks for mentioning us guys.

Nick, if you go servo control then you'l never go back. Give me a call if you want to talk subs and I'll give you some real options to consider.

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #72 on: March 23, 2018, 10:03:48 AM »
Well, more good information to consider. If I got a sub for the LS 50s, it would likely cross over at 80, so we’re talking 60-80 hz and then the sub bass region. As I listen to very little material below 40hz....like 1% if that...I really wonder how much of a difference it would be. BUT, other than my very limited experience with the Nola sub, I know very little about subs. SO, I’m happy to explore servo subs as well. As usual, I do have concerns about size and weight.

Danny, I’ll give you a call when I come back from California next week.
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
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Offline Danny Richie

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #73 on: March 23, 2018, 10:09:14 AM »
As much as I hate to send you to the Audio Circle from here, the information in this thread might be helpful: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155412.0

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #74 on: March 23, 2018, 11:03:58 AM »
As much as I hate to send you to the Audio Circle from here, the information in this thread might be helpful: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155412.0


Nah, that’s not a problem at all. AN exists now simply as a friendly place to exchange information and ideas. Whether it will morph later at some point, I don’t know.

Now, I did go over to AC and read that thread and there are lots of glowing comments for sure. It seems that it’s a dual 12” driver OB design and I’m not sure where I’d put it or whether I’d want to lift or move it. I believe Danny commented that it could be placed close to a side wall, but not close to the adjoining wall. So that’s potentially a big problem. Whatever my stereo system is composed of, it needs to work within the confines of my living room and not dominate it.

I was on Danny’s site and saw the one 12” driver kit, but I’m staying a mile away from any cabinet plans. I went through that whole routine with the failed single driver Mark Audio adventure.
However, maybe Parts Express has a premade cabinet that would work. Putting that together would be quite easy I’m sure.

When I get back from my trip, I’ll post a photo of my room so guys will see what I’m talking about
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS