Author Topic: Folsom Lillies  (Read 2550 times)

Offline Folsom

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Folsom Lillies
« on: August 10, 2017, 03:34:39 PM »
Hi guys, I'm happy to be offering these here, first. They are meant for dealers (welcome to inquire) but until there is a dealer in your area they will be available through me. There is no comparative product in competition to this anywhere. I accept Paypal & Litecoin.




*Note: the potting material I use now is black.

Folsom Lilies

Folsom works hard to make all of our devices capable of their maximum potential. In order to reach the full potential within any electronics it is key to have the incoming AC power at its highest ability to deliver. This starts at the breaker box.

The AC power grid within our home is an ecosystem. It has a diversity of life that comes from our A/V equipment, lights, appliances, and what's floating in the air. The complex-system under goes constant shifts where different devices and signals in the air disrupt the balance, shuffling the complex impedance around. In order for the system to deliver power correctly it has to recover from each and every change fast enough to meet the demands of a high fidelity system. The Folsom Lilie works to keep the complex impedance optimal by compensating for these changes.

The problem being addressed exists no matter how big of wire, type of wire, type of conditioners/transformers, or type of electronics you use simply because power is used dynamically in all settings. When they are addressed we feel the existing beauty in music becomes much more alluring, as the qualities we listen for reach out that extra mile to us, with our Lilies. Our experience wouldn't be complete without them.




*Can be installed in a few minutes by a qualified electrician.
*Compatible with all breaker boxes.
*Can be used on existing or new breaker set.
*Made with UL & AC line approved parts & materials.
*Special unit offered if you use Equi=tech balanced transformer installed in your place, that goes along with standard units.



MSRP: $270ea ***Availability to EU is pending upon figuring out whether they require CE or not.



Use:
1. It is recommended to use one per phase in the main breaker box – even when your equipment is only on one. This is because a balance is achieved on the neutral by having a Lilie on both phases. That balance is important because the neutral is used by the phase that your system draws power from.
2. Effectiveness is increased with distance from the audio system so both should be located in the main panel, not in a dedicated sub-panel.




Ok but is anyone using them, do they sound like anything?

Yes I have sent out some demo's and got positive review. Perhaps one fellow who is a member here will chime in.

Will they make MY stereo sound better?

First they cannot do any negative things from an engineering standpoint. From a subjective standpoint I would say 95%+ will benefit. When won't someone? When their stereo benefits from complex impedance problems. And that means? Here's a scenario, you've got vintage speakers that are softer on the highs so the added uplift to the frequencies affected by the complex impedance issue is imperative for balance, but adding Lillies will essentially "detune" your stereo's natural balance. How do I know? Well, if zero forms of noise reduction have ever done anything beneficial for you then that would be a good indicator in conjunction with vintage speakers. But also it's a matter of taste, as I firmly believe we don't all have the same ears so some people are never warded off by higher frequencies. (I am, I can get fatigued, some people don't)

So what about the Equi=tech special unit?

The transformer will behave better if the complex impedance is friendly on both sides, not just one, as it forms a sort of barrier so complex impedance changes can occur on both sides. This unit is meant for the ones installed in a home, as if it's too close to the stereo it will not be very effective. It also has an added benefit for the ground that is in the Equi=tech units; because the enclosure of them allows some parasitics, which is not (nor can be) an issue for the regular Lillies in a breakerbox. Ok, I get the technical side, but will this actually benefit me? Considering it's been tested, yes. The stereo where it was tested 2/3 people knew immediately that there was an improvement, and it was confirmed later again by removing and reinserting. The hardest part was trying to describe the improvements as not everyone is use to the experience that better power can bring. Personally what I heard was less homogenized highs that gained some timbre, became easier on the ears (was a little bit of an issue for me before), and spatial ques where much easier to read. I suspect different stereos will benefit in varying ways, but all will get the benefit.

Is there anything I have to worry about interfering with it?

The only thing that I know of is the EP-2050. It claims to have sonic benefits but no one has ever heard it. I've seen the patent. There is zero relation between it and the Lillies.

Wait so are the Lillies just a power filter? (NO)

No, they are not. But they do help your equipment naturally reduce noise based on their design because they are not in such high tension with the complex impedance; while also allowing it to operate for better power delivery.

They sound pretty special, what do these bad boys look like?




« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 03:41:53 PM by Folsom »

Offline Folsom

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Re: Folsom Lillies
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2017, 03:41:15 PM »
DaveC of ZenWave did a pilot use of them for me, his feedback:

"I have a pair and they work for me. They did seem to reduce noise with the accompanying increase in clarity, resolution and soundstage. No downsides either. Very nice... Specifics about what's in them and exactly what they do is a mystery, which I don't like, but I can understand wanting to keep IP private.

I was currently using one of my modded SurgeX power distributors when I installed the Lillies, which does have an emi/rfi filter that makes a noticeable improvement. This seemed to be the same sort of improvement, it was like the power filtering got even better.

In short, good job! "

Offline Nick B

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Re: Folsom Lillies
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2017, 03:41:52 PM »
Can your devices work in conjunction with an Uber that PI Audio produces? Do your devices work best counteracting the effects of high current items like air conditioners or can a combination of smaller devices cause negative effects?
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Folsom

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Re: Folsom Lillies
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2017, 04:05:01 PM »
They are compatible with all conditioners. They help all of them work better, as well as amps etc. So long as you are the type of person that enjoys power conditioning and such. There is another group of people that hate all forms of power conditioning etc, as they hear differently and appreciate differently. I will certainly console on if I believe someone to be one of those people. But since you use a Pi Uber, you wouldn't have anything to worry about.

Are you having voltage fluctuation problems?

They help the complex impedance recovery in higher frequencies, but not the low ones like near 60hz, so it depends a lot of the type of noise your A/C unit is creating, voltage fluctuations or RF.

*They cannot have a negative effect in engineering terms, only subjective for people that prefer the hardened high frequencies from complex impedance being poor. They can be nullified by a Environmental Potentials EP-2050, which have no benefit to sound that has ever been noted, but that's it.

Offline Nick B

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Re: Folsom Lillies
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2017, 05:43:08 PM »
They are compatible with all conditioners. They help all of them work better, as well as amps etc. So long as you are the type of person that enjoys power conditioning and such. There is another group of people that hate all forms of power conditioning etc, as they hear differently and appreciate differently. I will certainly console on if I believe someone to be one of those people. But since you use a Pi Uber, you wouldn't have anything to worry about.

Are you having voltage fluctuation problems?

They help the complex impedance recovery in higher frequencies, but not the low ones like near 60hz, so it depends a lot of the type of noise your A/C unit is creating, voltage fluctuations or RF.

*They cannot have a negative effect in engineering terms, only subjective for people that prefer the hardened high frequencies from complex impedance being poor. They can be nullified by a Environmental Potentials EP-2050, which have no benefit to sound that has ever been noted, but that's it.

I've never had any obvious fluctuating voltage issues. no rolling blackouts, etc.  The extent of my attempts at any type of conditioning over the years until now has been the use of a grounding rod and little black receptacle plug ins called Quiet Lines. The rod did nothing, but the Quiet Lines actually worked.
i try not to have preconceived notions about audio or tweaks. if it works, great. There's also always the bonus of knowing why something works  :thumb:
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Folsom

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Re: Folsom Lillies
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2017, 06:18:46 PM »
Understanding why these work flies over most EE's heads. Which makes explaining to most people even a bit more challenging. The other problem is IP. I could have made up something that would fit the change in sound that occurs, but I am not big on that.

What is very serious is that what they do to improve the complex impedance recovery, no one or any system is immune that is on any form of 115/230v AC. Batteries would be the only exception, and only so long as they are near the stereo.

The difference on a friends system using an Equi=tech balanced transformer (300lb wall mount) was me being able to listen regularly and getting fatigue right away. They also made spatial cues much better, and stopped the one-note issue.

Offline _Scotty_

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Re: Folsom Lillies
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2017, 09:17:23 PM »
Postulating that using an oscilloscope, I can see HF noise appearing as "fur" on the 60Hz waveform when looking at the voltage supplied at the wall receptacle and it looks about equal to 250mv magnitude.
 Would I be able to see a visible reduction in the amount of fur on the 60 Hz sine wave after placing the Lillie
between the wall and the scope?
 No big deal if I can't, I use Paul Kaplan's Waveform Fidelity power cords and you can't "see" what they do either.
Scotty

Offline Folsom

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Re: Folsom Lillies
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2017, 10:41:36 AM »
I'm not sure if you could see it. They are not a noise filter themselves, but do attenuate a little bit due to their nature.

They loose effectiveness with proximity, they get trumped, and the complex impedance recovery doesn't improve.

The best way to measure would be put them in the breaker box as designed. Now make a jig or sorts to measure complex impedances all over the house off of many outlets, while all your electronics are still plugged in and going. Connect network analyzers to all of the impedance measuring jigs you made.  :thumb:  :rofl: Ya, there is a reason I just use the subjective results. Even if I measure it, no one is going to understand what I show them.

Offline rollo

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Re: Folsom Lillies
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2017, 08:34:11 AM »
 A bit confused. Install in panel only ? Could thy be installed in a component ? Could they be installed before or in a power conditioner ? Is $270 retail price ?
May be interested in being a dealer.


charles
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Offline Folsom

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Re: Folsom Lillies
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2017, 12:04:08 PM »
That is MSRP, and they are priced to be sold by dealers.

They won't do anything if they are near the power conditioner. They get more affective with distance from the stereo, hence the breaker panel being best place.