Author Topic: Digital speaker crossovers and room correction discussion  (Read 629 times)

Offline doug s.

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Re: Digital speaker crossovers and room correction discussion
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2017, 10:34:00 PM »
hi rich,

i think i am going to have to hold off for now - it sounds even more complicated than the deqx.  having to take measurements and then send them to you doesn't sound workable for me.  i have several speaker systems that i need measured, and they will get changed every so often.  maybe when the next generation is released, it will be integrated like the deqx, so speaker measurements can be taken, corrected on the spot, and then a room correction can be run?  as far as i can tell, the deqx uses your home computer to run the programs, so its own memory isn't an issue.

it seems there would be more that i would need on hand to be able to run everything myself than just the $2k for the dspmusik.  ~$600 for the Audiomatica CLIO pocket system.  and then, once i have the dspmusik programmed, i the  have to use something like the mathaudio room eq to do the room correction?   is this more complicated to program the dspmusik, and then the room than it is w/the deqx?  and, when the mathaudio room eq is run, i have to run my system thru the computer, i can't load that into the dspmusik? (or at least not until the next generation ADSP21469 dspblock is available from Danville?)

do you have any experience w/pro audio gear (other than behringer) like the dbx 4820 drive rack, or similar?  if you know of any other hardware w/similar or easier operation than the deqx that offers 4 channel, and you think the sound quality is as good or better, i'd love to hear about it.

thanks,

doug s. 

Offline HAL

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Re: Digital speaker crossovers and room correction discussion
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2017, 05:14:04 AM »
The dspMusik system will not be automated like DEQX.  That is why I got involved to be the measurements person to work with the system and customer.  After all the DEQX work, still just sounded ok.  Same with the Behringer DCX2496. 

DEQX 2.6 does both the speaker crossover and room correction.  The PC program does the measurements and calculations to program the unit. You just had to have the calibrated mic and program for the installer to do it.  I have it here for my unit.  Cost $500 for that for my system and then more for the Earthworks M30 calibrated mic as the ECM8000 mic measurements for corrections did not sound very good.

If you have multiple speakers that change, then you would need a measurement system to work with the system.  About the same price as DEQX for the 2.6.   Crossover diagrams have to be build for each speaker, which I do for the customers.

RoomEQ uses a calibrated Omni mic from Dayton Audio to make the room measurements with the speaker.  Very easy to run compared to DEQX.  Runs from inside Foobar2000.  Fully automated measurements and the user decides the correction type and level with a single slider for both channels that are measured independently by the program.   This runs on a Windows PC for file based music replay. I just setup the measurement mic at the center of my listening chair.  RoomEQ can also do multipoint room correction with up to 20 mic positions if needed. It does not run on the dspMusik.   The next generation dspblock version and room correction are not even started at this time until the hardware upgrade is available.

Sorry, no experience with pro gear other than the stock Behringer DCX2496. 

Danville Signal, DSP Concepts and HAL want a customized system delivered to the customer to make sure it sounds good.   That is why we are all involved.

Rich

Offline rollo

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Re: Digital speaker crossovers and room correction discussion
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2017, 09:14:26 AM »
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Offline doug s.

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Re: Digital speaker crossovers and room correction discussion
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2017, 11:35:31 AM »
hi rich,

thanks for all the info.  i think i have to stick w/the deqx for now.  or look into something like the dbx driverack 4800/4820.  not sure i am ready to have a pc in the loop on my system.  maybe it will get so that the next generation dspmusik hardware is a one-box solution that can be implemented in-home by end users.  it's just way too user-unfriendly for me to have to get something in the mail, take measurements, send it back out, then have it re-sent to me to test it in my system to see how it is, then perhaps have to send it back-n-forth again; then to use a separate system to do room eq.  and then have to repeat the entire process to get another speaker into the rig...

it sounds like i could actually do the speaker correction myself pretty easily with the dspmusik and the Audiomatica CLIO pocket system, but then i am left w/the need to implement room correction thru another piece of hardware.  it would be great if the room correction, after it's run, could be loaded back into the dspmusik.  hopefully, that's on the dspmusik upgrade agenda.  folks could still mail measurements and equipment back-n-forth if they didn't feel comfortable loading the programs themselves...

doug s.

Offline HAL

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Re: Digital speaker crossovers and room correction discussion
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2017, 01:48:12 PM »
For the speaker measurements, there is no need to send the measurement system back to get the data.  You just send the measurement files and I create the program to load on the dspMusik that comes with the measurement system.  Once it is running then you just send back the measurement system if you are keeping the dspMusik after the demo. 

Since file based playback is becoming a big part of music systems, this just integrates the PC into the setup.  Maybe not for everyone, but that is why there is an A/D converter for analog playback in the dspMusik.  No other DAC's are needed with the dspMusik system, so digital is a cleaner path.

Never heard a CD/DVD-A/SACD transport that beats file based playback to date.  That is why I build Music Servers. 

Good luck!




Offline doug s.

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Re: Digital speaker crossovers and room correction discussion
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2017, 02:21:24 PM »
i can't imagine ever using a computer music server.  and i can't imagine ever not using my analog tube preamp.  luddite, i know...   :mrgreen:

all i want is something similar to what my deqx does - active eq & x/over to be used between my analog preamp and amps, but w/4 channels instead of three; if it sounds better and is easier to set up, all the better.  i've never heard any digital system, regardless of its hardware/software make-up or cost that holds a candle to a good analog system, so i don't really care; it's splitting hairs at that point, as far as i am concerned.  and, i prefer the sound of a good quality analog tube preamp, even if it means an additional ad/da conversion between my digital source and my dsp active x-over.

i'm curious - i know you set up rim's system, but since i got booted from a/c, we've lost touch and i haven't heard his system lately.  where/how is his dspmusik inserted into his rig?  he's still using his purity audio preamp, yes?  and he still has a separate digital rig going to the preamp?

thanks,

doug s.

Offline HAL

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Re: Digital speaker crossovers and room correction discussion
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2017, 06:48:35 PM »
Rim was using the dspMusik RevC for crossover from the mains to the subs with time delays to keep the subs from cancelling at his listening position.  Crossover to the subs was at 50Hz.

He still used his preamp, Marchand crossover, analog and digital rigs with the RM40 system.  It is the hybrid that he wanted. 

That is as of the last time I was at his place. Have not talked to him in awhile.

Offline HAL

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Re: Digital speaker crossovers and room correction discussion
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2017, 04:08:19 AM »
Will be trying out a new room EQ curve in work for the dspMusikLCD.  After some listening trials, looking to see if it can be done in Audio Weaver for use with analog sources as well.   

This one is in work at Danville Signal.   Should be interesting to test with The Megaliths.

Have an idea of how to improve room correction measurements for improved sound quality.  This idea was started by DEQX with offering a standard and upgrade microphone with the 2.6p system.  Taking it to the next stage with a better mic and mic preamp for measurements at 24bit/192KHz via the new ADC module. 

This maybe a very automated process if the latest versions of a few different programs work well.