Author Topic: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!  (Read 7396 times)

Offline goldlizsts

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Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« on: April 12, 2017, 02:57:45 PM »
Hi guys,

Last year, I opened up my DIY preamp, built from an AES (Audio Electronic Supply, sub of Cary, no longer around) kit.  I liked the sound (tonality mainly).  But, it lacked transparency.  So, I added a Solen 10 pf cap to the output end.  It improved on transparency, but I didn't like the sound as much.  So, I want to replace the Solen 10 pf now.  Brand?  I heard much about Jupiter.  Is that the best-sounding kind of cap around?  Musicality is what I'm after, of course.  Any advice is very much appreciated.  Your experience should be fine guidance for me.  Hope my prayer gets answered.  This column is rarely visited now, I noted.   :thumb:

Shek

Offline richidoo

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2017, 07:50:42 PM »
Imo, that preamp doesn't deserve upgrade caps. It is designed for lowest possible price, and the stock cap is sonically opaque for a good reasons. The preamp is musical and coherent, but not very resolving - by design. If you peek under the long dress you might change your mind about her. Focus on her smile and sense of humor. ;)

If you upgrade forget the bypasses and just get main caps that have good highs all by themselves. I like Jantzen Superior Z for good sound and good value, but there are many similar choices.

Read this to pick the right size:
https://www.v-cap.com/coupling-capacitor-calculator.php

If you get DIY fantasy caps like Jupiter just make sure they'll fit in the small AES chassis before you buy them. Some of those boutique caps are huge.

Offline goldlizsts

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2017, 02:40:33 AM »
Imo, that preamp doesn't deserve upgrade caps. It is designed for lowest possible price, and the stock cap is sonically opaque for a good reasons. The preamp is musical and coherent, but not very resolving - by design. If you peek under the long dress you might change your mind about her. Focus on her smile and sense of humor. ;)

If you upgrade forget the bypasses and just get main caps that have good highs all by themselves. I like Jantzen Superior Z for good sound and good value, but there are many similar choices.

Read this to pick the right size:
https://www.v-cap.com/coupling-capacitor-calculator.php

If you get DIY fantasy caps like Jupiter just make sure they'll fit in the small AES chassis before you buy them. Some of those boutique caps are huge.

Yes sir.  You're right, " The preamp is musical, coherent, but not very resolving".  But I just love the musicality of it.  My personal preference is that it's more to my liking than many I've heard (tonality).  That's why I was addressing the "opaqueness" issue only last time (being lazy and not that fanatical through the years).  I've realized, there's no such thing as "BEST".  Yet we fanatics (I'm really not that fanatic, tho bad enough) keep thinking of upgrading.  You change one thing, and another issue comes around! :duh

Thanks for your suggestion.  I will look into the other cap replacements.  Just want to play with it.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2017, 07:31:03 AM »
Definitely worth a try. Have fun! Maybe you can buy from seller who offers refund, like Parts Express, then install them with clip leads for "auditioning."

Offline rollo

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2017, 04:46:25 PM »
  Shek leave the caps alone and try another more revealing cable or foote. Play around and have cheap solder-less fun.


charles
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Offline rollo

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 04:52:35 PM »
 Forgot to that you have two experts on each side of your head. EARS !


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
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Offline goldlizsts

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 07:41:02 AM »
Forgot to that you have two experts on each side of your head. EARS !


charles

Hey, Sir Charles is back.  Good to hear from ya!  I was wondering where you disappeared to.  You're now another snow bird I heard?

Anyhow, I find that playing with caps has rewards also, and also frustration.  When you change one thing, there's gotta be something else that surprises.  My little DIY AES (Cary's baby way back) I thought had good tonality, so I kept it.  Over the years, I've had a few other pre's, but never impressed.  Of course, I don't play in the league like you guys, may be that's why.  I can't afford $10K amps....

I've learned a few things along the way. That's the reason for the game.  With changing caps, I had been disappointed lately.  But, another mod last week improved it.  So, the sound is somewhat back.  But... I'm gonna do what Rich and his pal Sol showed, play with some better caps. 

IN for some more surprises.  At least I keep the game going!!! :drool:


Offline tmazz

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 05:23:51 PM »

IN for some more surprises.  At least I keep the game going!!! :drool:



As my late wife always told me, it's not a hobby, it's a sickness.   :rofl:
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Offline rollo

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2017, 08:51:07 AM »
Forgot to that you have two experts on each side of your head. EARS !


charles


Hey, Sir Charles is back.  Good to hear from ya!  I was wondering where you disappeared to.  You're now another snow bird I heard?

Anyhow, I find that playing with caps has rewards also, and also frustration.  When you change one thing, there's gotta be something else that surprises.  My little DIY AES (Cary's baby way back) I thought had good tonality, so I kept it.  Over the years, I've had a few other pre's, but never impressed.  Of course, I don't play in the league like you guys, may be that's why.  I can't afford $10K amps....

I've learned a few things along the way. That's the reason for the game.  With changing caps, I had been disappointed lately.  But, another mod last week improved it.  So, the sound is somewhat back.  But... I'm gonna do what Rich and his pal Sol showed, play with some better caps. 

IN for some more surprises.  At least I keep the game going!!! :drool:



   Well you heard wrong. own a place in Flor. however just for vacation.
   Go to the Humble Hi fi site for cap reviews. Your unit may do well with V-Cap or Clarity MR cap. PIO caps are generly o the rich and warm side. Not a good match with Carey sonic character IMO.
  Silver caps from Audio Note and Duelund however may be cost prohibitive. Jupiter silver or Duelund Hybrid[ copper/silver] are among the best sounding caps around. I use them.
   Come on over and hear what they do. Just call me or PM me.


charles
 
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2017, 09:21:07 AM »
The stock preamp has Audio1 2.0uF output coupling caps and Kimber 0.22uF interstage coupling caps. The power supply is 4x100uF Nichicon electrolytics + 1 Solen 10uF bypass.

Shek already replaced the Solen bypass with AuriCap for a modest improvement in SQ. Sol said that the filter caps are so small that the effect of the smoothing bypass should be significant.  Other modders on the web have found good improvements with fancy LC type power supply filters. topround found similar improvements years ago when he was experimenting with intactaudio inductors in his 26 preamp.

Sol is a Cary Audio expert and knows the B+ is ~275V, so he recommended a MKT polyester Roderstein 400V 2.2uF film cap from Mouser to replace the Audio1s. $8 each. :)  There is a enough space for more exotic output caps if shek wishes to keep fiddling in the future.

I had a pair of used Jantzen SuperiorZ 0.22uF caps that I sold to shek cheap to replace the Kimbers.

Now we just wait for the solder to cool!  :drool:

Offline Brap

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2017, 12:03:21 PM »
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Offline topround

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2017, 06:22:03 PM »
would love to hear how this turns out!
modding is hit or miss I found out. Sometimes better parts don't make for better sound, sometimes it is something else in the circuit that needs a tweak than the usual cap change.
I think with modding there is a bit of luck involved :thumb:

good luck...let it burn in...and be honest....we all make mistakes, and we all learn from them!
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Offline goldlizsts

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2017, 04:07:06 AM »
I have to say "Thanks a million" to Rich (Richidoo), my divine hi-fi guidance counselor.  He, along with his pal Sol, gave me expert advise.  I threw out the Solen 10 uf, replaced the Audi 1 2 uf caps by a pair of cheap Vishay Rodenstein 2.2 uf.  It immediately improved on transparency and warmth (tho I still miss the mushy old sound of old!  I kept saying, I miss its tonality!).  Then, I replaced a pair of Kimber .22 uf with a pair of Jantzen Z caps.  It's now a brand new ballgame.  The soundstage, imaging are much, much better, with good "shine" on the sound.  However, that tonality of old is no longer.  I'd say I got back 3/4 of that.  It's a good tradeoff though.

Well.... I knew that's how it'd be. A little twist will cause changes somewhere else...  But, I love the new personality.  I'll live with the tradeoff.  It's definitely a good thing.

Thanks Rich! :thumb:  :yay2:

Offline goldlizsts

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2017, 04:12:27 AM »
Rich,

Aren't you one of the directors (whatever!) of Audionervosa? 

See, I just made 2 postings, and the 1st one disappeared already.  ONLY the MOST CURENT item is listed.  Audionervosa DEFINITELY should consider expanding (hard in this current climate, the state of the audio business?), somehow show more of current postings.  I know, it's not easy, but computer wizs should be able to do it? 

Thanks.

Offline tmazz

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Re: Asking Experts AGAIN! Caps!
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2017, 05:11:13 AM »
I have to say "Thanks a million" to Rich (Richidoo), my divine hi-fi guidance counselor.  He, along with his pal Sol, gave me expert advise.  I threw out the Solen 10 uf, replaced the Audi 1 2 uf caps by a pair of cheap Vishay Rodenstein 2.2 uf.  It immediately improved on transparency and warmth (tho I still miss the mushy old sound of old!  I kept saying, I miss its tonality!).  Then, I replaced a pair of Kimber .22 uf with a pair of Jantzen Z caps.  It's now a brand new ballgame.  The soundstage, imaging are much, much better, with good "shine" on the sound.  However, that tonality of old is no longer.  I'd say I got back 3/4 of that.  It's a good tradeoff though.

Well.... I knew that's how it'd be. A little twist will cause changes somewhere else...  But, I love the new personality.  I'll live with the tradeoff.  It's definitely a good thing.

Thanks Rich! :thumb:  :yay2:

Unfortunately balancing tradeoffs is part of this game. But is is also a big part of what keeps things interesting.

Don't give up on that tonality just yet, you may still get it back. Caps are funny things and often take a considerable amount of break in time before the settle down and sound their best. try to avoid making any final decisions or conclusion until the caps have a few hundred hours on them. It is very likely would will hear the sound evolve until then.
Remember, it's all about the music........

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