AudioNervosa

Systemic Development => Speakers => Topic started by: James Edward on May 22, 2018, 02:57:29 PM

Title: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: James Edward on May 22, 2018, 02:57:29 PM
Hi All,
I have accepted a tentative but seems real offer to sell my Legacy Focus SE speakers. I have never enjoyed sound more than with these guys. My living quarters are going to change, and they are not exactly portable. I’ve had several rather ‘choice’ speakers in the house, but none that made more things listenable than these.
As soon as this offer becomes reality, I plan to order the Spatial M3. It’s a departure from the many box speakers I have owned throughout my career as a music enthusiast.
I figure what the hell, I’m 58, and should experience a few other speaker types before I go deaf or get hit by a bus... I’ve been to many audio shows, and open baffle speakers have always sounded good/great to me, such as Emerald Physics, Pure Audio Project, and of course Spatial.
Any experience here with this model, or others like it?
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: richidoo on May 22, 2018, 04:12:36 PM
Congrats on your decision James. I wish you luck in your new living arrangement and in finding your next speakers.
And thanks for inspiring me to get a pair of Focus SE for myself, I have been enjoying them immensely.

I've owned and heard a few OB speakers. It's a different sound than box speakers. Like you said, you have to experience it to know if it's up your alley.
Rich
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: tmazz on May 22, 2018, 04:34:09 PM
My first high end speakers were a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10s. They were of course limited by the quality of the drivers available at the time, but they were rather groundbreaking in terms of open baffle design and phase and time alignment. And while they certainly cannot keep up with current state of the art designs, I heard a pair not to long ago and they still sound pretty damn good.

I agree with Rich, OB speakers have a different sound that other types. I cannot say it is better per se tan box types, just different. A particular OB design may be better than a particular box, or planar or any other type of speaker, but I would never say that any one type is better overall. Each type of speaker has its own strengths, weaknesses and design challenges. and each type may be better or worse in particular rooms and with certain types of music. What is best for any particular person is a combination of what they listen to and where they listen too it, and to some extent what equipment they are going to use with it.

There are too many variables to be able to make definitive statements about anything being the best. But much of the fun of this hobby is the experimentation and mixing and matching to find out what work best for you.
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: Nick B on May 22, 2018, 04:52:48 PM
Hi All,
I have accepted a tentative but seems real offer to sell my Legacy Focus SE speakers. I have never enjoyed sound more than with these guys. My living quarters are going to change, and they are not exactly portable. I’ve had several rather ‘choice’ speakers in the house, but none that made more things listenable than these.
As soon as this offer becomes reality, I plan to order the Spatial M3. It’s a departure from the many box speakers I have owned throughout my career as a music enthusiast.
I figure what the hell, I’m 58, and should experience a few other speaker types before I go deaf or get hit by a bus... I’ve been to many audio shows, and open baffle speakers have always sounded good/great to me, such as Emerald Physics, Pure Audio Project, and of course Spatial.
Any experience here with this model, or others like it?


I’m pretty sure shadowlight had Zu’s for a while and then switched to Spatial 3s or 4s.
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: shadowlight on May 22, 2018, 06:27:08 PM
Hi All,
I have accepted a tentative but seems real offer to sell my Legacy Focus SE speakers. I have never enjoyed sound more than with these guys. My living quarters are going to change, and they are not exactly portable. I’ve had several rather ‘choice’ speakers in the house, but none that made more things listenable than these.
As soon as this offer becomes reality, I plan to order the Spatial M3. It’s a departure from the many box speakers I have owned throughout my career as a music enthusiast.
I figure what the hell, I’m 58, and should experience a few other speaker types before I go deaf or get hit by a bus... I’ve been to many audio shows, and open baffle speakers have always sounded good/great to me, such as Emerald Physics, Pure Audio Project, and of course Spatial.
Any experience here with this model, or others like it?

I have Spatial 3 Turbo S model and they replaced Zu Druid V.  I like both speakers but in my setup the Zu's sound more refined.  I would say the issue is with my room height and width.  I think it needs 2 to 3 feet in width and another 2 feet in height breathing room.  The last GTG at the house we had Spatial 4 and they were in the family room and the sound was much better.

If you are in the NY/NJ area you are more than welcome to come over and have a listen to them.
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: jimbones on May 22, 2018, 06:30:46 PM
I live on Long island I may take you up on the offer to hear them  8)
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: mfsoa on May 23, 2018, 05:25:20 AM
I would very much like to hear them too. I don't know if you care to swap any gear out but I just picked up a Megaschino from Tommy and the thing is freaking killer.
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: shadowlight on May 23, 2018, 05:59:43 AM
I live on Long island I may take you up on the offer to hear them  8)

I would very much like to hear them too. I don't know if you care to swap any gear out but I just picked up a Megaschino from Tommy and the thing is freaking killer.

I am more than happy for anyone who wants to have a listen come on over.  I also do not have any issues in swapping gear out. 
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: James Edward on May 23, 2018, 03:09:43 PM
I would like some impressions, negative or positive. To be honest, I love the Legacys, but space and moving constraints are an issue. I never do sweet spot or critical listening anymore, but as I’ve said, I do like the ability of a speaker to play quite loudly and sound great when doing so.
I am assuming, rightly or wrongly, that the Spatial M3 will afford me that.
I also will continue to use my Luxman 30wpc class A amp, as I love the sound. Therefore, I need a pretty efficient speaker for my loud listening.
So fire away with any impressions please.
Thank you Shadowlight for your invitation. I will contact you after the next several hectic weeks for an audition. I really appreciate the gesture.
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: James Edward on May 23, 2018, 03:50:48 PM
I will add this - I have been an avid show attendee, and for the most part, the only high efficiency speakers I’ve like have been open baffle designs; Pure Audio Project, Emerald Physics, and Spatial. The offerings from JBL, Zu, and some others I can’t recall, have left me wanting.
I also have auditioned the Zu Def in my home, and returned it. Not my cup of tea.
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: richidoo on May 28, 2018, 11:51:53 AM
I've rarely been impressed by Legacy show demos either, although the clearest most convincing bass I ever heard was from Whisper XD at the show in DC, ~2013?

Sometimes I've even been turned off by Legacys at shows (original Focus SE with planar midrange at Axpona Atlanta trying to play Dizzy Gillespie harmon muted high notes - total failure!)

Doug Brown, the former Legacy VP of Sales told me that the demos at shows are always brand new speakers, never broken in. Add brand new electronics also and you have a constipated confused hot mess. It's actually surprising how good it does sound considering that.

When I got my Focus SEs they were 4 years old, I am 3rd owner, but they still needed 20+ hours of hard beating to break in (again?) I thought they were damaged when I first got them because I assumed they were already broken in and they sounded like crap. Once they were fully broken in they are very rewarding, a great value, imo, especially for symphony music there's nothing can touch them under 10k.

But nothing's perfect, they have 4th order crossover filters throughout, typical of all modern speakers. Focus 2020 had shallower filters on mid/tweets and was more harmonically transparent despite having far lower resolution drivers. Steep filters mask some harmonic and spatial details, but today's contemporary music requires it to protect the drivers. And it's 30 something DINKs that buy the new high end speakers, and they listen to rap, powerpop and EDM. Sell 'em what they want.  But despite similar flat FR, steep slope modern speaker design formula, Legacy's comparatively larger drivers and larger boxes make them sound more musical than those who target WAF buyers.
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: richidoo on May 28, 2018, 01:06:58 PM
Apparently it is de rigeur for most manufacturers to demo brand new gear.

I hope you get a chance to hear some well massaged Legacys someday. I think you'd like them.  The drivers are really excellent. 
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: Nick B on May 28, 2018, 01:08:31 PM
I've rarely been impressed by Legacy show demos either, although the clearest most convincing bass I ever heard was from Whisper XD at the show in DC, ~2013?

Sometimes I've even been turned off by Legacys at shows (original Focus SE with planar midrange at Axpona Atlanta trying to play Dizzy Gillespie harmon muted high notes - total failure!)

Doug Brown, the former Legacy VP of Sales told me that the demos at shows are always brand new speakers, never broken in. Add brand new electronics also and you have a constipated confused hot mess. It's actually surprising how good it does sound considering that.

When I got my Focus SEs they were 4 years old, I am 3rd owner, but they still needed 20+ hours of hard beating to break in (again?) I thought they were damaged when I first got them because I assumed they were already broken in and they sounded like crap. Once they were fully broken in they are very rewarding, a great value, imo, especially for symphony music there's nothing can touch them under 10k.

But nothing's perfect, they have 4th order crossover filters throughout, typical of all modern speakers. Focus 2020 had shallower filters on mid/tweets and was more harmonically transparent despite having far lower resolution drivers. Steep filters mask some harmonic and spatial details, but today's contemporary music requires it to protect the drivers. And it's 30 something DINKs that buy the new high end speakers, and they listen to rap, powerpop and EDM. Sell 'em what they want.  But despite similar flat FR, steep slope modern speaker design formula, Legacy's comparatively larger drivers and larger boxes make them sound more musical than those who target WAF buyers.

As to the lack of breakin issue, I have always respected Bill Duddleston and  the Legacy brand, but why in the heck would a manufacturer subject the public...and themselves....to a less than optimum presentation at a show?
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: richidoo on May 28, 2018, 04:15:56 PM
You're not alone, Legacy is a different kinda hifi brand, never really been audiophile approved. When I was first researching buying my Focus 2020 in 2005, someone on audiogon forum called them "the ultimate rock speakers", which he meant as a veiled insult. They were the ultimate rock speakers, I still remember playing the new Chris Daughtry record on them. But jazz trio and symphony orchestra also very good. :D
Different strokes for different folks.  :beer:
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: James Edward on May 29, 2018, 02:16:44 PM
Well then I guess I’m an outlier in this hobby. I think they sound excellent, with the right balance of virtues. Many systems sound too lean and unforgiving to me. I’ll take a dash more meat on the bones; whether it’s accurate or not, I don’t care.
I also like the unbridled ability to play loudly and without distortion at those levels. I’ve not heard the poor sound at shows that others have experienced. I will say this- just to show that I’m not a fan boy- I did not like the ‘V’ model that debuted several years ago at RMAF. Bloated and overwrought come to mind. I also find Bill Dudleston to be one of the less approachable owner/manufacturer/designers at shows.
To each his own I guess; if my situation changes, I’d go back to a Legacy speaker unless something really catches my ear in the meantime.
I have a few days left before the purchaser picks them up. I think I’ll go and turn it up.
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: djdube525 on May 29, 2018, 08:18:34 PM
Any experience here with this model, or others like it?

I got a chance to hear the Spatial X2s w/some Vinni Rossi gear at RMAF'17... for me... one of the best rooms I had the chance to listen to. That said, I only spent 1 day there, so didn't get a chance to listen to a ton of equipment.
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: rollo on June 05, 2018, 08:48:01 AM
  James consider Fritz Carerra speakers. rock and roll baby. no sub required can be put close to wall as well. Look at  JBL as well with class "A" amp.
Spatial will not go right in your room.


charles
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: Emil on June 05, 2018, 11:05:54 AM
  James consider Fritz Carerra speakers. rock and roll baby. no sub required can be put close to wall as well. Look at  JBL as well with class "A" amp.
Spatial will not go right in your room.


charles

Or Ryan R Series Speakers. Neil is or was a dealer for them
http://ryanspeakers.com/Products/R%20Series/R610/R610.html

The R610 is a stand mounted bookshelf that goes for $2k. Less used of course
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: James Edward on July 06, 2018, 02:09:05 PM
Well, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. I’m into my third week with the Spatial M3 Turbo S speakers, and I’ve yet to find fault with them. Yes, as expected, the bass does not shake the house as the Focus SE’s did, but it seems to have more ‘texture’, for lack of a better word.
The tonal signature of the Legacy and Spatial are quite similar. A full midrange, along with a non-aggressive treble.
Title: Re: Call Me Crazy- Selling My Favorite Speakers
Post by: rollo on July 07, 2018, 10:45:21 AM
Enjoy, now you need to hear an Audio Hungary A20i or A50i integrated or the new mono blocks oh my ! Great combo as we have shown with Spatial.


charles