Author Topic: My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3  (Read 9359 times)

ted_b

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« on: January 18, 2007, 05:33:45 PM »
I have just installed the Transporter last week in my system. I am looking to replace the redbook capability of my modded tubed Modwright Denon 3910 (likely keep it for hirez, though) with something that gives me all the obvious advantages of hd-based playback (convenience, clutter-reduction, etc.). However, it is imperative that this step is a step forward, sonically. I am eval'ing the TP because I know that, in my system, the accompanying SB3 stock will not cut it in the sonically-equivalent department, but a RWA or Bolder modded SB3 might just be the ticket.

My system is very highly resolving, but with a tendency to get to strident if I don't watch out. My Krell KSA-100 is the original (read: highly-regarded, not the later cold, analytical ones) version of that Class A beast and is, IMO, difficult to fault in some favorite areas (iron-gripped bass control, dynamics, quietness). But it's tendency toward midrange ice requires me to feed it vacuum tubes. My front end is a tubed universal and analog vinyl fed into a Modwright tubed SWL 9.0 SE linestage. As an aside, when I recently eval'd the vaunted Moscode 401HR it's warmth and midrange bloom was too much for my front-end, so I'm happy with the balance right now. My main speakers are RSA's new Sason mega-monitors, and the lowest registers are augmented by a Paradigm Servo 15 room EQ'd by the Velodyne SMS-1. The Sason's are electron microscopes into the soundstage, and I like that. Enter the TP. I'm using FLAC album sized files with cue sheets, and sending FLAC across the wireless network. No dropouts yet, although I'm completely open to going wired if needed.

To paraphrase the latest 6 Moons review about computer audio, the insertion of the TP was one of remarkable clarity, unsurpassed levels of information, powerful bass, reference level dynamic performance and excellent transparency. This TP does very many things very very well!! Most of this is likely due to the superiority of the AKM dacs and the supposed superiority of the lower jitter due to hard-disc playback. The main criticism I have is there is some major stridency in the upper midrange and treble, and that on lesser recordings it's quite problematic. I'm not sure how much of this will "break-out" of the system as it breaks-in (I am a firm believer in break-in of components, although I've read very little discussion about the evolution of the TP break-in process here or anywhere). My modded 3910 is no slouch, and to compare it's near-SOTA vacuum-based midrange buttery smoothness (even though it's not a tube rec'd power supply yet) to the TP is looking/listening in only one aspect of the solution...but an important one. Update: after about two weeks of listening and constant burn-in, it still just doesn;t sound musical. it's way too analytical and bereft of midrange weight and necessary air and bloom. It's great food without the right spices.

This week a new contender arrived.  I bought a slightly max'd out RedWine modded SB3 (battery power, analog and digital mods, etc).  Last night, after playing the RW-SB3 for a couple nights, I synched up both players, calibrated the volumes (TP needed 5.5 db attenuation) and had an audio buddy over to somewhat blindly test the sonics.  The net is that there is a significant preference for the RW-SB3 on both our aprts, due to the better synergy with my system.  Nothing is lost expect for a slight attenuation in the lowest registers (maybe 1-2db at 20hz or so...dunno), and the strenths are a much better balanmce of weight and midrange bloom, without being too thick or syrupy.  Both players excel at dynamics and noise floor, with the TP losing nothing to the off-the-grid Sb3.  But heck, for $600 vs $2k, and a great platform for even better sonics (via a tube dac down the road) I am hooked.

One interesting note - we demo'd both players going straight into the Krell, bypassing the Modwright pre, and wow...what a drop in the already black noise floor.  Music just began!  It's not like it popped out of the dark and then disappeared, it just naturally began and then decayed into thin air.  Now don't get me wrong, the bottom-end wasn't there (no sub integration), the sound was a bit clinical (but not bad) and the midrange needed those vacuum tubes for a bit more weight, but other than that it was music reproduction and dynamics like I've never heard.  My conclusion is:  I need a pre due to all my switching and various source needs (SACD, DVD-A, vinyl, home theater bypass, etc)...but I just might take a very serious look at the Bent/Music First TAP passive TVC.  If it doesn't cut it, then Dan's new LS 36.5 is my next stop.

Net/net, although the TP is going back to Slim Devices, the RW-SB3, and computer audio in general, is here to stay, in my system at least.  The sound, the convenience, the lack of clutter, the selection, the comfort, the technology, the seemingly effortless presentation....it's all there!    8)

Ted

Marbles

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2007, 05:40:29 PM »
I love your speakers..heard them 3 times and all 3 times they were great.

I heard TomS's system and he has a Bolder modded SB2 w/ultimate PS and BEL 1001 amps (SS)  a Sonic Euphoria pre and he had the new Ronin speakers.  His system sounded very liquid with no stridency at all.

He needed the Sonic Euphoria to add some DB's to his SB as it only outputs 1v or so after mods.

ted_b

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2007, 05:46:30 PM »
Rob,
Yeah, the RW-SB3 is pretty much max'd out volume-wise (like 95 out of 100) for a decent room-filling volume through the Krell.  As I said, I won't be doing that, and the TAP has at least 6db gain once you reach unity gain I believe.

Thanks for the kudos on the Sason's.  I love 'em.  Steve's gonna build me a center next (then a pair of music surrounds).  iI will be a floor stander but squatty, with the bottom section of the standard Sason removed.  The crossover will be in a small box external.  I need this cuz my video screen begins at 30 inch off the floor.

Offline Bemopti123

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2007, 05:58:17 PM »
Sorry if I seem to be taking the conversation sideways, but is there a better alternative to the SB2 or SB3 in terms of software management?

I used to have a SB2, until about last year, but the unreliability of its operating software and akwardness in navigation left me wanting more than it could ever provide?  Is the control situation of the software on the SB3 better than the Sb2?  I wonder.

Offline TomS

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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2007, 06:32:16 PM »
I'm running Clarkconnect Linux with the 6.5.x Slimserver and it's been running totally unattended since I built it a few weeks ago - no glitches.  The SB2 and SB3 user interfaces are the same as the firmware is the same.  Since the server is open source software there may be a lot of alternatives out there.  You might take a look at www.slimdevices.com to look at the latest addons and enhancements (not from Slim).  I plan to use the pocket interface on a Dell Axiom to make it more usable myself.  Tom
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zybar

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2007, 07:47:07 PM »
FWIW, Stereophile (Wes Philips) just gave the Transporter a pretty good review in the latest issue from a sonics point of view and especially from a techy point of view.

George

ted_b

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2007, 08:27:18 PM »
If by software managment you mean the music server software, then I agree with Tom, the latest Slimserver 6.5.1 is very stable.  I'm having a few glitches with playing around in the album art area (I am planning on using a nokia 770 or 800 as a internet tablet remote, like Sonos, and want the skin to include album art, etc) but otherwise is quite stable.  Although I've only had the players for a week or so I've grown used to the menus, and even the readout on the front panel is viewable from across the room (and I have 53 yr old eyes).

Offline TomS

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2007, 08:48:17 AM »
Quote from: "ted_b"
If by software managment you mean the music server software, then I agree with Tom, the latest Slimserver 6.5.1 is very stable.  I'm having a few glitches with playing around in the album art area (I am planning on using a nokia 770 or 800 as a internet tablet remote, like Sonos, and want the skin to include album art, etc) but otherwise is quite stable.  Although I've only had the players for a week or so I've grown used to the menus, and even the readout on the front panel is viewable from across the room (and I have 53 yr old eyes).

Ted - roger that on the SB display being viewable in the BIG size from listening position.  My 50 yr old eyes love it.  Scrolling and searching isn't the best, but I don't have thousands of CD's on the drive yet.  I'm still learning how to organize them for my own convenience at this point too.  Overall I can't bring myself to slide a silver disc into anything but the computer reader drive anymore.
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Double Ugly

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2007, 12:31:41 PM »
Quote from: "Bemopti123"
Sorry if I seem to be taking the conversation sideways, but is there a better alternative to the SB2 or SB3 in terms of software management?

I used to have a SB2, until about last year, but the unreliability of its operating software and akwardness in navigation left me wanting more than it could ever provide?  Is the control situation of the software on the SB3 better than the Sb2?  I wonder.
As far as I can tell, the software  - at least from a navigation perspective - is the same for all Slim Devices products.  I've owned two SB2s and now use a modified Transporter, and I've yet to discover any meaningful differences between the software versions I've tried.  The version I'm using now (6.5.0) has been running for months w/o a single hiccup.

As for awkwardness, what specifically did you find awkward about it?  I have my CDs grouped by genre in subfolders within my Music folder, and I can locate anything in my collection in a matter of seconds.  Granted, it took a little time and patience to figure out precisely where I wanted everything (genre-wise), but it's a breeze to navigate.

-Jim

randytsuch

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2007, 12:39:40 PM »
The display on my SB2 does not work all the time anymore  :( .

But, for me it is not a big deal.  I use my laptop as a "remote", and just run the slimserver software on the laptop.  This makes it very easy to navigate.

Randy

ted_b

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2007, 12:40:19 PM »
Jim,
Who modded your TP?  RAM?  Anthony?  Tell us about it vs stock and any other (hi-end cd players, etc.)

Double Ugly

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2007, 01:54:20 PM »
Hi Ted,

Anthony did the work.  

Frankly, I'm still sort of surprised I asked him to do it because the other Aberdeen/Maui stuff I auditioned (SB PS and full-up TacT pre-) did not perform as well as I'd hoped.  But most everything I saw and read about the TP made it seem a great foundation, and I figured Anthony was just the man to find the electronic nooks and crannies that could benefit from his 'measurements first' approach.

So that's what I had him do, and he added a few extras like replacing virtually all the capacitors with top-of-the-line Black Gates and replacing the op-amps w/ a couple generally considered the best sounding.  He also put in a filter network that he seemed genuinely surprised wasn't factory-standard.

As for comparisons, about all I feel comfortable saying is that I don't miss my tricked-out "Ultimate" PS any more.  I won't say that my TP is better than the Bolder SB (it's been too long since I heard it), but if it isn't, it's awfully close.  What I *can* say is that it's the quietest transport or player of any type I've had in my system.  With the TP connected directly to the Butlers, I'm not sure I can hear anything from the Timepieces when the music is paused.  

So in summary, the Bolder significantly outperformed the tricked-out RWA SB I owned, and I believe the TP is at least the sonic equal of the Bolder, but it is quieter, better looking and takes up less space.  I'm happy!  :D

I may have someone else try to tweak it further someday, but it will be the result of the usual neurosis because I'm quite satisfied with it as of this moment.  If nothing else, with Anthony having done the mods, I'll bet it measures better than any TP on the planet.  :lol:

-Jim

PS - If Dan ever decides to tackle a TP, I'll be first in line to have him sprinkle some of his famous modding fairy dust on my unit!

ted_b

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2007, 12:43:09 PM »
Well I have but one negative to say about the RW-SB3.  My forgetfulness!!!  I left the damn thing on battery power all last night and today.  The battery is now too low for the recharger to even see it.  It's dead.  Vinnie will replace it this week, but it's a hassle to pack up and send.  A couple more of these and it's no longer a great used "find" (nothing against Vinnie or design...everything against me and the family lifestyle).  I will learn from this....I really will. :(

Ted

Offline bpape

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My take on Slim Devices transporter vs RWA SB3
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2007, 02:17:51 PM »
This is exactly why I won't ever get any piece with a purely battery supply that doesn't automatically switch over to charge mode when not in use.  I'm quite sure there are audible advantages but I know either me or my wife will leave it on at some point and kill the batteries.  Good batteries and shipping are just too expensive to keep replacing.

I'd think there would be a non-intrusive way to leave the power connected but out of the loop while in use.  One could use a trigger circuit to kick back and forth based on the presence of a music signal.

Bryan
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