Author Topic: Modified SB3  (Read 9478 times)

Dougie085

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Modified SB3
« on: October 04, 2008, 08:49:21 AM »
I've been looking at options for getting my music to my stereo without an HTPC. I just don't like the HTPC approach its just to noisy and to much hassle. I also would rather not have my TV on every time I want to listen to some tunes. So I've been thinking about buying a Squeezebox 3 and modifying it. Building a better PSU to replace the SMPS and then work on the output stage. Of course then I would feed this into either my dual mono wolfson DAC or the new Sabre DAC I've had my eyes on. This is going to be down the road a few months as I'm still working on my speakers. But basically looking at these threads I'm quite interested.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=45330.msg407006

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=203374&postcount=60

Here is a slideshow of the super squeezebox. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp1tKd1vFYo include internal pics.

Offline Carlman

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Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2008, 07:38:36 AM »
If the SB3 approaches the cost of a Modwright Transporter, I'd suggest just doing the TP and forget about all the mods to the SB3...  Just my thoughts..
-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

mgalusha

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Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2008, 08:43:51 AM »
As someone who has done more mods to a Squeezbox than should be allowed by law I can say the effort to re-case and modify it does pay off. I agree with Carl in that if you're going to spend the kind of money a ModWright Transporter costs just buy that.

My SB has 5 power supplies, lives in a new case and has a tube output stage and bears little resemblance to what Slim Devices originally sold. Does it sound good? To me it does and I don't have much money invested but I do have a LOT of time invested. Does it sound as good as a ModWright Transporter? I don't know as I've never had to opportunity to compare them and of course the Transporters support high bit rate files which a Squeezebox will never do regardless of modifications.

Perhaps Slim Devices/Logitech will deliver something between the price of a Squeezebox and a Transporter that will play 24/96 (or higher) files but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I don't know offhand if the Sonos will play high bit rate files but that is something to consider as well. If you can DIY it's worth it, if not the costs can add up quickly.

Mike

Dougie085

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Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2008, 09:38:08 AM »
It should be quite a bit less then a grand so nowhere near the cost of a transporter. Especially the modwright.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2008, 09:48:49 AM »
Sonos limited to 48kHz sample rate. No mention of bit depth, and I haven't tried any 24 bit files yet.

Dougie085

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Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2008, 12:56:28 PM »
Yeah that's a big reason to go with the Transporter but I don't think I can spend 2k... And I'd like to use my DAC so the nice internal DAC's on it would be wasted. I like to try and keep my sound the same between CD's and my digital stuff lol.

Dougie085

  • Guest
Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2008, 01:30:49 PM »
Mgalusha, do you have any pictures and info on your modded SB? Love to see it :)

mgalusha

  • Guest
Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2008, 02:34:52 PM »
Dougie, Sure - I posted about it on audiocircle when I built it

Original Thread http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=47094.0

Tube Addition http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=57068.0

Mike

Dougie085

  • Guest
Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2008, 03:44:42 PM »
I was thinking about maybe using a couple PSU's from Twisted Pear Audio their LCDPS. They are regulated and fully adjustable. Do you think they would work ok?

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/power/lcdps.aspx

They also have a Bipolar PSU but I'm not sure I'd need that for the SB3.

What do you think the tube output added to your setup? I'm not sure its something I'd want to do but I'm not sure either. A lot of people like tubes and I have heard some tube systems that I really like but at the same time I'm somewhat of a person that likes to not muddy up the signal. Not saying tubes make things sound bad but they change the sound.

mgalusha

  • Guest
Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2008, 04:29:13 PM »
The "Low Current" part of LCPS is of some concern. I don't see what it's rated at but you need a full amp of current at 5V and 1.5A is better, providing less stress on the PSU components. You don't need a bipolar PS unless you build an output stage that requires one. Note that most of the Squeezebox mods involve removing the stock op-amp output, which cleans up the signal path considerably but causes some other problems such as the absolute phase is now inverted, the signal level is about 1/2 of standard and driving long cable runs is out. Which is why I used the Burson Buffer modules originally and then designed a tube stage later.

As for the tubes, I like what they do and the sound is far from muddy. Tubes in a line stage can be very linear unless designed not to be. IMO most "muddy" tube sound is tied to power amplifiers that have a fairly high output impedance and don't control the woofers very well. Not all tube amps are like this and some folks are very happy with the compromises of those that are. I have both tube and SS amps in my system and I like them both, they just do things differently. One of my amps is an OTL which is lousy at driving high current loads like 4 ohm woofers but it excels in the middle and high frequencies, which is where I use it. I like what it does so well I can accept the drawbacks. It's all about compromise, every component has some, the question is which ones can you tolerate.  8)

Those that have heard my tube out SB have all been very positive in their comments. I am very happy with it but you can be sure some time in the future I will change it again. I simply can't leave things alone. Hell I modified my wife's clock radio this morning to disable the alarm. :)

Dougie085

  • Guest
Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2008, 04:51:39 PM »
Well I'm guessing the op amps don't mess with the digital output at all? Most of what I'll be doing more then likely will be effecting the digital output stage which is the reason I want to swap out the SMPS as it creates a lot of the jitter and other issues that are present on the digital output of the SB3. If I don't plan on using the analog output of the SB3 is the 1amp of current really needed? I mean these are the PSU's I use with my DAC and I couldn't imagine the SB3 draws more then that. Of course there is the wifi built in and all that. I'm not really sure. If you really don't feel that the LCDPS will at least work for the digital section of the SB3 (clock and what not) is there some sort of PSU kit or PCB that you would feel would be an improvement?

Offline richidoo

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Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2008, 06:15:25 PM »
The flourescent display draws a lot. Networking, memory, processor, it all adds up. Actually an analog output SB makes a big improvement wiith 2+ amp fast quiet supply.

JoshK was working on SB PS's too. He too did the separate power supply per section thing. Search AC for JoshK Squeezebox, or maybe it is inside Mike's links above...

mgalusha

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Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2008, 06:22:33 PM »
A Squeezebox with a wireless card draws just over 1A of current at full brightness. Any good linear PS will be an improvement over the switcher. I took a full set of measurements to answer this very question.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=24771.0

A company called Acopian makes some very nice linear power supplies. http://www.acopian.com/store/9-(7).aspx?min=1.5&max=5
A B5G210 is a 5V @ 2.1A and is not excessively expensive. It's not cheap but is really well made and has a 5 year warranty.

Dougie085

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Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2008, 09:12:51 PM »
Well I would probably just find something to build if I had to spend that kind of money...after all this is DIY :)

Offline richidoo

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Re: Modified SB3
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2008, 06:06:29 AM »
You'll have a hard time building from scratch as cheap and good as these:
http://www.power-one.com/chassis-mount/open-frame-linear.html

You can get different voltages on one PS or just 5V/3A from digikey for $52
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=179-2316-ND

mfg
http://www.power-one.com/cgi-bin/acdc_search.cgi?volts_1=5&ref=linear&lid=37948&LINEAR=f&x=63&y=21

You can find PS like this on surplus sale too. There is another brand for whom power-one builds supplies on contract, can't remember the name, Conrad? often they appear on surplus sale. I used this on my SB with excellent results. Regulation is very good, I think 0.05% of regulated voltage at max current. Not bad for 50 bucks. It is stripped though, you supply everything to get power in and out of it.
Rich


Here's another seller for $37 for the 3A
http://www.flw.com/olpow2.htm

« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 06:08:24 AM by richidoo »