AudioNervosa

Systemic Development => Speakers => Topic started by: bhobba on June 07, 2012, 07:23:55 PM

Title: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: bhobba on June 07, 2012, 07:23:55 PM
Hi Guys

I had tried some Bybees on the output of a friends PDX DAC and the results were good enough for me to try some more extensive use in my PDX and to have them installed in the ML2's I am having built.

What they do to my PDX will need to wait until they are fully installed but yesterday managed to hear them jury rigged into a pair of ML2's.  Wow - more detail, better bass, more liquid and fluid - in all sorts of ways better. 

Can hardly wait until they are permanently installed and to hear what they do to my PDX.

Will keep everyone updated.

Thanks
Bill 
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: StereoNut on June 08, 2012, 05:33:24 AM
Price of admission...???  :-s
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: bhobba on June 08, 2012, 05:01:24 PM
$740.00.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/bybee_speaker_kit.html (http://www.partsconnexion.com/bybee_speaker_kit.html)

Thanks
Bill
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: topround on June 08, 2012, 05:51:24 PM
what a ripoff!

This is plain ole snake oil, sorry not meaning to offend anyone, especially those that actually bought these things, but come on we as audiophiles have to grow up and learn to ignore these silly things

have a great day!

Mike
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: Face on June 08, 2012, 06:19:36 PM
what a ripoff!

This is plain ole snake oil, sorry not meaning to offend anyone, especially those that actually bought these things, but come on we as audiophiles have to grow up and learn to ignore these silly things

have a great day!

Mike
+1...
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: bhobba on June 09, 2012, 06:51:10 AM
This is plain ole snake oil, sorry not meaning to offend anyone, especially those that actually bought these things, but come on we as audiophiles have to grow up and learn to ignore these silly things

Would a blind test convince you - I suspect one can be arranged?

There are people that say Duelunds are snake oil as well.

A good audiophile buddy of mine was told of the differences in USB cables.  There could be no differences - to cut a long story short he left shaking his head after picking it blind.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss such things as snake oil.

Thanks
Bill
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: rollo on June 09, 2012, 07:28:13 AM
  Bill if there is one pair of ears I can trust it is yours. You were correct with the Lenehans, PDX and spot on with your DAC reviews. The Duelands as well. To date I have yet to experience a cap that improved my Preamp and speakers to a degree not thought possible. My buddies sonic Frontiers CDP never sounded better after VSF caps were installed. Same for his Amps and speaker crossovers. We heard a demo of Analysis speakers with three crossovers. Stock, then with Mundorf and Dueland then with Dueland. The all Dueland crossover won hands down. The Cast were used. Cost Fuggetaboutit. The result staggering. There was just no going back. Orderd a pair for my preamp and amp. Expensive yes even at OEM pricing. IMO worth every penny.
  I believe our club member Listener uses the Bybees.. Maybe he can add some comments of his hand on experience.
  I believe Mike who builds for Bybee might shed some perspective on them.
   Mikey, Mikey Mikey. We love ya !!



charles
   
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: richidoo on June 09, 2012, 10:09:54 AM
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss such things as snake oil.

Yes, snake oil is very valuable stuff... to the snake!  :rofl:

I don't doubt that Bybees work, I've been hearing good things about them for many years. I think I only heard them once on Aether Revs at RMAF in spectrons, never with a comparison of before and after, which is necessary to discern any difference. But they are pricey, so the hoped for value "if it works" and "the chances that it's not a ripoff" must be weighed before even trying them.   Lottery ticket to many people because it is still not widespread.  But then so were speaker wires at one time and we still don't know what's going on there but we all pony up.

I'd like to get the chance to play with them sometime.
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: musicfile on June 09, 2012, 02:24:33 PM
Bybee's work .. if you're settled in your electronics and have a considerable amount  invested in your system and looking for that extra 1-2 percent to bring you over the top
Try the bybees you won't go back  :thumb:

I'm a believer
For the record Dueland Cast caps and resistors are da bomb
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: bhobba on June 09, 2012, 06:00:40 PM
Bill if there is one pair of ears I can trust it is yours.

Shuks.  But take my word for it they are far from infallible - far from it - the stories I could tell.  Suffice to say I always try to get confirmation from others.

I believe Mike who builds for Bybee might shed some perspective on them.

Actually when I mentioned I wanted to try them in the ML3 Limited Edition and ML2's I am having built Mike mentioned he had some around somewhere he had been meaning to try for ages.  Got my own in anyway from a guy that deals with them here in Aus and when I took them over to be installed he did a quick jury rig on some ML2's that was burning in which is how we heard it.  Suffice to say he is now looking to be an OEM manufacturer - and count me impressed.
   
Mikey, Mikey Mikey. We love ya !!

Just love guys that speak their mind as well.

Thanks
Bill

Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: topround on June 09, 2012, 06:55:19 PM
Yes, I must speak my mind!
I am sure they make a difference, everything makes a difference. Whether for better or worse that will have  to be heard in the system and just like everything in audio it can't  always be for the better. (or could it).
The problem I have is that it costs so much, if we didn't buy into this stuff we could have tweaks that work for $1.38, but no we fall into the trap and pay big bucks for nonsense.
C'mon $1500 for a power cord! When you put your head on your pillow just before you sleep you must know that this is just wrong!
$740 for some resistors?

How about if you had a headache and I gave you advil and it worked! your headache was gone! but I told you the price was $300 per pill, you would gag and complain, but you would have to admit the pill worked, the pain was gone.
If no one bought my Advils, I would be stuck with them, eventually lowering the price to what the market will bear, 20 cents each!
The market had reached equilibrium and a fair price was found, 20 cents. We have altered that market, messed with it, and allowed these anomolies to exist, $740 resistors, $2000 caps, $1500 power cords, we owe it to ourselves for these prices, don't buy the Bybees and watch good ole Jack Bybee lower the prices, but no why do that? Lets just feed the machine...I can't wait to pay $1500 for resistors!
Now if I SOLD Bybees I would of course have a very different story than the one I am putting down here right now, but I don't and am just speaking my mind..

we are so naive sometimes
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: _Scotty_ on June 09, 2012, 07:07:22 PM
All I know is that I am not a member of the "we" you referred to. That "we" has a great deal more money to spend on the hobby than I do. Mind you, I have no objection to the existence of this market, I just don't support it.
Scotty
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: bhobba on June 09, 2012, 08:03:15 PM
Hmmmm.  Interesting view Mike.

Lets take Duelunds for instance and look at my ML3's.  Without Duelunds they cost $6,500 but with them they cost well over twice the price at $15K.  There are a couple of differences other than Duelunds such as better internal wireing but the vast bulk of the difference in cost is in the Duelund parts - particularly the VSF Copper Capacitors with each capacitor costing many hundreds of dollars, compared to the Earse in the base model that cost a few dollars.  A manufacturer would have to have rocks in their head to offer speakers with such a huge price difference unless it really did make a big difference.  Anyone that compared the two would soon pick up any shenanigans.  Yet many people, myself included, despite the huge price difference, opted for the much more expensive Duelunds - they are simply that much better.

Guys selling stuff with these uber expensive parts IMHO would not be in business long if it was all just playing to peoples gullibility - some sure - but I find it hard to believe all is.

Regarding your Advil analogy my mum suffered terribly at one time from migraines and she would lie moaning in her bed and take painkillers like Advil by the bucket-load to no relief.  Then this new drug hit the market, I forget its name, that was supposedly extremely effective against migraines - trouble is a shot cost $100.00.  I said to mum get the doctor down and get a shot for heavins sake.  What - I am not going to pay $100.00.  Anyway I couldn't take it one time and got the doctor down to give her an injection - all up cost including the doctors visit over $150.00 that I paid.  Instant cure - since then every time she got a migraine she forked out for it and they thankfully went away after a while.   The moral is I don't think stuff should be dismissed just because of cost - it may be like the migraine drug - well worth it.

Thanks
Bill
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: musicfile on June 09, 2012, 08:10:50 PM
I'm on the same wavelength as Bill
Yes this stuff is expensive but in my case and for my needs the improved sonics is well worth the price of admission especially if you can source out the parts and do the work yourself.
Bybees in my system transformed a very good sounding system - I'm getting more of everything with no apparent drawbacks except my bank account is lighter
It may not work for everyone but i'm happy and that's the key
 
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: bhobba on June 09, 2012, 08:37:50 PM
Yea thats correct.  Very few manufacturers put Duelunds in speakers - in fact apart from my Lenehan stuff I have only heard of one other manufacturer in Switzerland that does it - the cost is just so huge.

Heard of those Sassons - they are supposed to awesome speakers.  Spoke to Eric Hider about them and he has a pair - very impressive - very impressive indeed according to him.

I promised to see if I could get my ML2's out for him to compare - very interesting to see the outcome of that comparison.

Thanks
Bill
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: topround on June 10, 2012, 05:27:35 AM
never mind. I give up :duh
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: satfrat on June 10, 2012, 03:29:43 PM
This is plain ole snake oil, sorry not meaning to offend anyone, especially those that actually bought these things, but come on we as audiophiles have to grow up and learn to ignore these silly things

Would a blind test convince you - I suspect one can be arranged?

There are people that say Duelunds are snake oil as well.

A good audiophile buddy of mine was told of the differences in USB cables.  There could be no differences - to cut a long story short he left shaking his head after picking it blind.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss such things as snake oil.

Thanks
Bill

Topround is the last person you need to please Bill,,, your ears are the only thing that you need to please IMHO.  :thumb:

That said, I'm in full agreement with you as my system is teaming with Bybee's from the power through to the speakers. I've had Bybee Speaker filters on all 7 loudspeakers (subwoofer inc.) for about 8 years now. Years ago, I would routinely take them out just to reaffirm how much I desire their presence. For me, Bybee's add depth to the music and I find their addition very addictive,,, even for video! I've got 20-something Bybee's (both large/small) in my whole A/V system and they will never leave,,,, only cuz I don't have the finances to upgrade them to todays Super Effect Bybee's.  :rofl:

Many folks either don't like them (say they roll off the highs) or just won't accept them like Topround. But I know what I hear and what I like,,, and I like me my Bybee's! It's good to hear someone else feels the same as myself.  :thumb:

YMMV 8)

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: topround on June 10, 2012, 04:53:42 PM
Robin, my only gripe is that they charge so much, ..they take advantage of our audio insecurity.
You should do what we all do once in a while,  take out all that power conditioning you have and see what your system sounds like.

Its an excercise in perspective

You might be suprised by what you hear

Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: Carlman on June 10, 2012, 08:50:36 PM
Mike... It's not worth arguing what something costs in audio land.  I realize we all have those frustrating moments when we just don't understand why something costs what it does... And maybe that's what this is for you.

To take this 1 item and use it as your snake oil analogy is stretching it to say the least.  If you knew what it cost and could show how someone was being manipulated, that'd be worth mentioning... but so far, it's just breast-beating loudly with unsupported opinion... repeating it different ways each time.  WE GET IT!  Enough already. sheesh! ;)

In any case, I've suspected JPS of using Bybee's in their speaker cables... there are these little cans sealed up in their terminations.. that get bigger as the cost of the cables go up... hmm... I always wondered if that's what they were.  I'm too chicken to cut them up and find out... but maybe one day.

Bybees always seemed like the real deal to me... and used as described, for that last 1-3% smooth and natural sound.

-C
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: tmazz on June 10, 2012, 09:49:25 PM
While I have never used Bybees I did have one inline with the AC input for the power supply for my Bolder cable Mensa modded Art Di/o. Unfortunately one of the leads into the bybee snapped right even with the end of the can such that it could not be repaired. I didn't have another one to replace it with so I just took it totally out of the circuit and I have to say that the Di/o has never sounded the same since. it just lost that last little edge of SQ. it was a small bybee so to replace it would only be only around $100, not the $700 you guys were talking about for the speaker unit. I definitely thought it was worth that amount of money give the amount of SQ I lost when it went bad. (Unfortunately I nave not done the repair, but that is more due to a lack of time as opposed to a lack of finds or desire.)
I I can attest to the fact that they do do something. Now whether that something that they do justifies the price they are asking for the ones you need given your system and your ears is a question tat we could easily pose for an high end audio purchase at all. And have people arguing both sided of that decision, not matter what the pending purchase was. It is just the nature of the hobby.
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: topround on June 11, 2012, 02:08:56 AM
Carl,
I was not breast beating, I was just doing my part to help the original poster.

This thread was about to die the minute it was posted,
but I will keep my mouth shut


thanks
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: Carlman on June 11, 2012, 06:20:09 AM
Really?  Doing your part? The thread was going to die?  Sounds like you're still saying the same thing, that this tweak is not a good value.. and that you (wished?) this thread would die.  It's on page 2 now.

I do appreciate where your heart is, but there is no saving us.  And I, and probably many, do not like being saved.

Sorry I had to call you out on this but you kept berating an important point here at AN... Please treat us all like equal adults - We can make our own decisions... regardless of how much money we have, don't have, or care to spend... This has enabled us to have some pretty serious discussions without the shackles of cost around everything.  Let's dream big!
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: BobM on June 11, 2012, 07:41:50 AM
I agree that the Bybees are expensive, but lots of people swear by them. Then again, Peter Belt is still selling his stuff too.

OK, that's not quite fair. The Bybees actually "work". The story I heard is that you too could order the Bybee parts, but there is only one supplier and he will only take the order if you know the exact part number. And the part is government developed and not in any catalogue. The seller of Bybees worked for the government and has this information, so even though the part costs him a few bucks, he can charge what he charges for his proprietary knowledge. At least that's the story I heard.

As for price vs performance considerations - would you pat $3600 for a phono cartridge that sounds amazing, or only pony up $700 for a different phono cartridge that gets you 90% of the expensive one? At least with Bybees we are only speaking about a few hundred $ for a change.

Different strokes. Different pocketbooks. Different priorities. Varying degrees of nervosa/psychosis/boredom.



Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: richidoo on June 11, 2012, 08:27:29 AM
And the part is government developed and not in any catalogue.

Added bonus: When the mothership arrives it will pick you up first.
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: mdconnelly on June 11, 2012, 03:57:23 PM
If I knew for certain that I was being totally ripped off on price -- even if I believed there was high value in it -- I would likely choose not to support that manufacturer/vendor/dealer/etc...

But hey, to each his own.   I have absolutely no problems (well, other than envy) if someone is willing to spend outrageous money in this hobby.  Just wish maybe you lived next door  :rofl:

Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: bhobba on June 13, 2012, 05:19:34 PM
Hi Guys

Myself and a number of other guys did some more listening tests with others present, including a blind one with one person, and verified it was definitely better - more detail, better bass, more analogue like, liquid and fluid - I thought it removed a certain starkness to the sound but one person described it as removing a whiteness - it did sound 'darker'.

Bybees were also installed into my PDX - one in the output, on the power into the DAC and into the battery power supplying the USB converter.  We also heard that and while not as big as the effect on the speakers produced similar results.  It definitely was the best PDX anyone there had heard.

Thanks
Bill    
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: topround on June 13, 2012, 05:50:46 PM
Bill,
 You may want to try IV transformers. Much cheaper than the Bybees and can probably garner much greater results. They won't be subtle and you won't need a team of people to help ascertain the differences.

Whether you like the differences.....well that is a topic for another thread.

Mike
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: MrAcoustat on September 25, 2012, 07:45:17 AM
what a ripoff!

This is plain ole snake oil, sorry not meaning to offend anyone, especially those that actually bought these things, but come on we as audiophiles have to grow up and learn to ignore these silly things

have a great day!

Mike

Hi Mike, you have every right to THINK that they are snake oil, but i know MANY that think different and i am one of them this is a pair of Acoustat Spectra 6600s that belong to my friend and i can assure you that the bybee's made a HUGE difference maybe you could not hear it but that does not mean others can't.

PS: The second photo is my Acoustat 1+1s also rebuilt and modified by him.

(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz61/MrAcoustat/Jocelyn600x450.jpg)

(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz61/MrAcoustat/KeepItSimple760X570.jpg)

Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: Response Audio on September 25, 2012, 09:53:29 AM
I have been using Bybees for many years. Mostly internal pieces in electronics and speakers. I will admit that [some] use them as band-aids but even in a properly designed product, they can provide very beneficial results.

They are standard equipment in our upper end Purity preamps.

When offering them in modification/upgrade work, I never pushed them. I always asked the customer to do their own research and come to their own conclusions. If they wanted them....fine, if not, that was also fine. In the end, it was the customer that made their own educated decision on whether or not they would be used in his product.
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: BobM on September 25, 2012, 11:55:29 AM
I picked up a Bybee some years ago to try out on a digital cable from transport to DAC. I can;t say that it made much of a difference there. When I got rid of the 2 box thing and went to a 1 box solution I had to figure out what to do with this single, leftover Bybee.

So I put it on the incoming + power wire in the preamp. Can't say that I heard much, if anything, but I figured it couldn't hurt. Too much trouble A-B'ing that so I really can't say what it did. Is there somewhere else that you think this little black slug would be better suited?

Thanks,
Bob
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: satfrat on September 25, 2012, 06:39:16 PM
I too tried them on digital cables and it was hit & miss. On less expensive digital cables & gear like my C-band 4DTV satellite receiver, I liked Bybees and I'm currently liking them on my DirecTV DVR too. But on my Crystal Cable Digit connected to my Empirical Off-Ramp 3, it clouded the highs too much. I've never liked Bybee's on IC's. But I've always liked them in many power applications(BPT conditioner, power cord, IEC adapter, AC adapter), video cables and RF adapters also. But hands down, I like them best on the loudspeaker end. All I have are the older Bybee Ultra Speaker Filters w/ribbon connectors. What I'd really love are today's (way too expensive) Bybee speaker bullets that attach to the terminals, had I the finances that is. :duh

Just my opinionated experiences, YMMV.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: MrAcoustat on September 26, 2012, 02:45:19 AM
I too tried them on digital cables and it was hit & miss. On less expensive digital cables & gear like my C-band 4DTV satellite receiver, I liked Bybees and I'm currently liking them on my DirecTV DVR too. But on my Crystal Cable Digit connected to my Empirical Off-Ramp 3, it clouded the highs too much. I've never liked Bybee's on IC's. But I've always liked them in many power applications(BPT conditioner, power cord, IEC adapter, AC adapter), video cables and RF adapters also. But hands down, I like them best on the loudspeaker end. All I have are the older Bybee Ultra Speaker Filters w/ribbon connectors. What I'd really love are today's (way too expensive) Bybee speaker bullets that attach to the terminals, had I the finances that is. :duh

Just my opinionated experiences, YMMV.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin

Hi Robin like you i believe in the Bybee's speaker bullets but in my response to Mike i'm sorry that i forgot to mention i don't agree that it's snake oil BUT i do agree that they are expensive but that's normal when you don't have ANY competition your price is THE PRICE.

(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz61/MrAcoustat/BybeeSpeakerBulletts.jpg)
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: bhobba on September 26, 2012, 05:17:02 PM
Hi Guys

Yea the speaker bullets seem to provide the biggest benifit although my now fully bybeed up PDX definitely sounds better than one without them.

The guys ar Lenehan found it a bit difficult to put them in some of their smaller speakers so went the route of putting them on the end of speaker cables instead.

Here is what I guy I know who got some cables with them in posted:

'Had the chance to put the regular RibbonTek and the Bybeed ones through some music this morning. I was able to keep the volume the same and used the Mute button on the power amp while swapping cables. Like in the showroom, the music had a more immediate feel to it. Less laid back. More energetic. I think in my room, I thought there was an improvement in the soundstage width and depth as well. The RibbonTeks, even without the Bybee steroids had more of a bass impact than my Silversmiths as well.'

Interstingly the guy, who posts under Doggihowser our here in Aus and on a forum in Singapore, didnt like the terminiators on his Silversmth cables and got some Eichman spades installed instead.  That improved their bass for some reason.

Thanks
Bill
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: satfrat on September 28, 2012, 10:23:33 AM
Hi Guys

Yea the speaker bullets seem to provide the biggest benifit although my now fully bybeed up PDX definitely sounds better than one without them.

The guys ar Lenehan found it a bit difficult to put them in some of their smaller speakers so went the route of putting them on the end of speaker cables instead.

Here is what I guy I know who got some cables with them in posted:

'Had the chance to put the regular RibbonTek and the Bybeed ones through some music this morning. I was able to keep the volume the same and used the Mute button on the power amp while swapping cables. Like in the showroom, the music had a more immediate feel to it. Less laid back. More energetic. I think in my room, I thought there was an improvement in the soundstage width and depth as well. The RibbonTeks, even without the Bybee steroids had more of a bass impact than my Silversmiths as well.'

Interstingly the guy, who posts under Doggihowser our here in Aus and on a forum in Singapore, didnt like the terminiators on his Silversmth cables and got some Eichman spades installed instead.  That improved their bass for some reason.

Thanks
Bill

Yep Bill, I fully agree with your Bybee speaker comments. For me, it's the depth aspect that has me loving the Bybee's. The Bybee Speaker Filters especially add a depth to the soundfield that's 3D-like. I can only imagine today's ultra-expensive speaker bullets compound on this depth, be it at a price of diminishing returns.  :duh  I especially like the combination of Bybee's and Z-Sleeves together in my system, both in audio & video applications, FWIW/YMMV.  :yay2:

I also have to detract my "no Bybee's on IC's comment". Bill's comment on bass made me realize that I do infact have an RCA Bybee adapter(along with  a Z-Sleeve) at the end of my subwoofer cable to good effect. But that's the only one, my Ridge Street Poiema!!! IC's between my processor and Butler amps are Bybee free.

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: MrAcoustat on October 02, 2012, 08:47:12 AM
MrAcoustat with the modified Acoustat Spectra 6600s

(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz61/MrAcoustat/AcoustatSpectra6600MrAcoustat.jpg)

Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: jimbones on October 09, 2012, 05:14:48 AM
Cue up 2001 A Space Odyssey   :rofl:

Dayum those speakers are big!
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: rollo on October 09, 2012, 07:23:44 AM
WOWIE !!!! Holy mackerel their Andy. I can hear Amos telling Andy. NOW that there is a speaker. Enjoy .


charles
Title: Re: Bybee Speaker Upgrade
Post by: jimbones on October 09, 2012, 10:20:13 AM
Just a pair of sattelites!  :rofl: