Author Topic: need recommendation re integrated amp  (Read 2861 times)

Offline doug s.

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #75 on: May 27, 2018, 06:18:59 PM »
No, absolutely nothing to do with him.

Inside is just a stock module and stock wiring in a Takachi case, so nothing to see there at all. There are no reasonable mods for the 1200AS2 as of yet. They're all the same.

The connectors are Furutech FI-06NCF for IEC, FT-786F XLR, FT-807 binding posts, all Rhodium. They're just good quality parts, no idea if it makes any sonic difference from other decent quality parts. 2-3" of wire inside, very doubtful.
hi tom,

so i don't think it takes much of a stretch to conclude that you were the p/o of this amp?  or at least you heard it?  ;)  i'd love to hear your thoughts about it.

thanks,

doug s.

Offline TomS

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2018, 08:40:00 PM »
Yes, we had a few for some special projects. These were left over. They do sound quite good, very powerful and free of grain and glare, can drive most anything. They won't conquer the world and solve world hunger as some seem to think though. At Rich's GTG the amp really made the Legacy SE's come alive IMHO.

There are a lot of competitive amps out there, though at the $1-2k price point these are hard to beat. Their real utility shows when using the "hanger" modules which support bi-amp, tri-amp, etc using the existing onboard power supplies. Very cost-effective options for oems. Hypex has similar capability as well.

Note that soldering wire into a JST terminal, especially more gauge than is intended to fit will mechanically weaken the connection right at the end of the solder joint where it ends on the wire. That becomes the weakest point and may break. It's just a bad practice so I choose to avoid this. If it breaks, it doesn't matter how much better it sounds.
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Offline doug s.

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #77 on: May 27, 2018, 10:45:40 PM »
Yes, we had a few for some special projects. These were left over. They do sound quite good, very powerful and free of grain and glare, can drive most anything. They won't conquer the world and solve world hunger as some seem to think though. At Rich's GTG the amp really made the Legacy SE's come alive IMHO.

There are a lot of competitive amps out there, though at the $1-2k price point these are hard to beat. Their real utility shows when using the "hanger" modules which support bi-amp, tri-amp, etc using the existing onboard power supplies. Very cost-effective options for oems. Hypex has similar capability as well.

Note that soldering wire into a JST terminal, especially more gauge than is intended to fit will mechanically weaken the connection right at the end of the solder joint where it ends on the wire. That becomes the weakest point and may break. It's just a bad practice so I choose to avoid this. If it breaks, it doesn't matter how much better it sounds.
hi tom,

thanks for the insight.  i was really thinking about trying one of these, but if they won't conquer the world or solve world hunger, i may have to reconsider.   :rofl:

i think i am on the same page re: trying to solder wire on those built-in terminals; especially, as you said, when using a larger gauge.  i think it would be better to simply apply one of those chemical connector treatments that are available.

i am also wondering whether the lower powered as-series amps offer the same sonic qualities as the 1200as.  tho it seems the 1200as, besides having extreme power, also has much better dynamic range, which may be due to a superior control of the smps.  or maybe due to something altogether different? 

doug s.

Offline richidoo

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #78 on: May 28, 2018, 09:36:37 AM »
The 1200AS is the only B&O amp to use the new ICEedge chips. The older AS amps don't use that (yet.)

This amp is distilled water at 1000psi. It is not VSOP or hot chocolate. It will not entertain you. It is not worthy of gear worship because it doesn't cost enough and it is as sexy as a motherboard. But it's an adequate appliance in every audiophile performance parameter. It could make other "audiophile" components seem inadequate. But it doesn't "outshine" the other components or draw attention to itself.
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Offline doug s.

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #79 on: May 28, 2018, 10:58:07 AM »
The 1200AS is the only B&O amp to use the new ICEedge chips. The older AS amps don't use that (yet.)

This amp is distilled water at 1000psi. It is not VSOP or hot chocolate. It will not entertain you. It is not worthy of gear worship because it doesn't cost enough and it is as sexy as a motherboard. But it's an adequate appliance in every audiophile performance parameter. It could make other "audiophile" components seem inadequate. But it doesn't "outshine" the other components or draw attention to itself.
ah - thanks for the update.  i guess the new iceedge chipsets are available only to mfr's in lower power configurations.

doug s.

Offline richidoo

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #80 on: May 28, 2018, 12:00:03 PM »
As I understand the new ICEedge chip is only available on the 1200W amplifier at this time. But the other AS amps will hang on the 1200AS.

All ICE products are only available to manufacturers. Anybody who sells them as modules or amp kits gets a spanking. This is why bavmike stopped selling $900 kits. No ICE DIY, it's always been like that.
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Offline doug s.

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #81 on: May 28, 2018, 12:13:33 PM »
As I understand the new ICEedge chip is only available on the 1200W amplifier at this time. But the other AS amps will hang on the 1200AS.

All ICE products are only available to manufacturers. Anybody who sells them as modules or amp kits gets a spanking. This is why bavmike stopped selling $900 kits. No ICE DIY, it's always been like that.
well, mfr's must be able to buy the iceedge chipset separately; from their website:

"The flexibility and features of ICEedge enables designs from 50 W to 7 kW and from 1 to 20 channels...."

and in the brochure, they say:

"The ICEedge chipset consists of a dual channel Controller IC
and two Driver ICís. It is the only chipset in the market enabling
amplifiers that range in power from 50W up to 7kW into 4
Ohms. ICEedge is our finest achievement yet in terms of audio
performance and functionality, and likely to be the worldís most
advanced Class D chipset."


so, i guess the mfr's can create what they want, by purchasing separate modules.

doug s.

Offline richidoo

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #82 on: May 28, 2018, 01:19:28 PM »
Yeah, sorry doug, I misread what you meant. I thought you meant their other ICE modules. 

I can imagine that happening, buying just the chips and hiring engineering support from B&O to develop their own amp designs using ICEedge controller. If they want to do their own circuit layout using their high end design philosophies and make their own decisions for high end audio. It would be interesting to compare a 1200AS to a Sim Audio or mark Levinson version of it.
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Offline doug s.

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #83 on: May 28, 2018, 01:32:57 PM »
Yeah, sorry doug, I misread what you meant. I thought you meant their other ICE modules. 

I can imagine that happening, buying just the chips and hiring engineering support from B&O to develop their own amp designs using ICEedge controller. If they want to do their own circuit layout using their high end design philosophies and make their own decisions for high end audio. It would be interesting to compare a 1200AS to a Sim Audio or mark Levinson version of it.
no, rich, you didn't misunderstand me.  apparently, for the complete amp module, the 1200as is the only one w/the iceedge chip.  but, you can get that chip w/other lower-powered icepower amps, i guess...  i suspect they will offer complete iceedge packages like the 1200as in lower power iterations at some point...

doug s.

Offline richidoo

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2018, 03:54:25 PM »
Their advertisement sure implies that ICEedge will be available in different power ratings. But a month ago I thought only 1 was yet available. 300W would have been enough for my speakers. I think they have to spread the tech over their whole line to recoup the development costs. Else why bother if the previous ICE technology was "good enough"
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Offline Nick B

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2018, 07:22:36 AM »
I have been quiet as Iím still in the midst of the painting and flooring project. Itís not something Iíd ever want to repeat. That 1200as amp is sitting ďon iceĒ awaiting the completion of this project. Have yet to play even one note. Maybe by this weekend itíll happen.
McCormack DNA 1.0 Gold amp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Antelope Audio Gold dac
Auralic Aries Mini - Tidal
Roon Labs (upsampling to 24/192
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline P.I.

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #86 on: June 18, 2018, 10:01:53 PM »
I have been quiet as Iím still in the midst of the painting and flooring project. Itís not something Iíd ever want to repeat. That 1200as amp is sitting ďon iceĒ awaiting the completion of this project. Have yet to play even one note. Maybe by this weekend itíll happen.
Hang in there, Brother!
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Offline Nick B

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Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
« Reply #87 on: June 18, 2018, 10:10:17 PM »
I have been quiet as Iím still in the midst of the painting and flooring project. Itís not something Iíd ever want to repeat. That 1200as amp is sitting ďon iceĒ awaiting the completion of this project. Have yet to play even one note. Maybe by this weekend itíll happen.
Hang in there, Brother!

Dave,
Iím hanging by a thread. Maybe, please please, the guy will be done tomorrow or Wednesday 🙏🙏
Nick
McCormack DNA 1.0 Gold amp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Antelope Audio Gold dac
Auralic Aries Mini - Tidal
Roon Labs (upsampling to 24/192
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A