AudioNervosa

Systemic Development => Amplification and Preamplification => Topic started by: Nick B on October 19, 2017, 11:26:15 AM

Title: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on October 19, 2017, 11:26:15 AM
As some of you may know, my speaker experiment with the Nola’s didn’t pan out. So I’m left with my SP Tech 86 dB 2 ways for now.  I’ve been thinking about considering an integrated, but it might be a tall order to sonically match my modded McCormack.
Ideally,  the integrated would have separate power supplies and be remote controllable. As time goes by, I’m more amenable to tubes and a more enjoyable sound. I’ve grown tired of the “neutral” somewhat etched sound that I’ve lived with for years. As to the tubes, I wouldn’t want to have to retube 6-8 tubes every couple of years. As always, I have a budget and it can’t exceed $2500. Are there any worthy contenders that I can buy used for that price?
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: StereoNut on October 19, 2017, 03:00:44 PM
Maybe look into Primaluna, Nick.

http://www.primaluna-usa.com/integrated-amplifiers/

SN
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: tmazz on October 19, 2017, 03:16:06 PM
I think the biggest problem will be to find an integrated that has the same kind of output wattage as that McCormack (which id somewhere in the area of 150 wpc if I am not mistaken. ) Even in the Primaluna line the highest output you can get is 96 W and to get that will cost you $4400 for the stock amp, plus whatever it cost you to upgrade the output tubes from EL 34s to KT 150s.

Now if you can live with something in the area of 50 watts that would open up a whole bunch more possibilities.......
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: shadowlight on October 19, 2017, 06:32:41 PM
Nick,

Are you looking at tube only integrate or hybrid combination of tube/solid state?  If you are looking at hybrid some of the ones that come to mind are Peach Tree and Rouge Audio and the tubes are most likely 6dj8/6922/12au7/12ax7.  I do not have any experience with either of the brand, just going by the word of mouth on the net.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on October 19, 2017, 07:04:33 PM
I’m looking at the Prima Luna. Nice stuff.

Yes, the McCormack does a solid 150 and more. If we drop down to 50 watts, what’s out there??

Ideally, it would be all tubes or a hybrid would be fine. I really don’t know what I need to drive the SPs. Before that, I had a Metaxis ss amp that was 150 as well
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: shadowlight on October 19, 2017, 08:09:05 PM
Check in with Hugh (Angel City Audio) to see if he has anything from Melody (not sure if anything will be within your budget) or Onix.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Hugh on October 19, 2017, 08:28:37 PM
Check in with Hugh (Angel City Audio) to see if he has anything from Melody (not sure if anything will be within your budget) or Onix.

Thanks D.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Hugh on October 19, 2017, 08:32:17 PM
SP Tech at 86 dB will need lots of power.

The truth of the matter is none of the mentioned even come close to Melody when it comes to SQ.
On the other hand, quality comes with more money.

May be Onix 125W amp is the one.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on October 19, 2017, 09:17:24 PM
SP Tech at 86 dB will need lots of power.

The truth of the matter is none of the mentioned even come close to Melody when it comes to SQ.
On the other hand, quality comes with more money.

May be Onix 125W amp is the one.

Thanks, Hugh. Oh the hazards of owning poor efficiency speakers... I don’t doubt the Melody SQ. Must be very, very nice.
Hope I’ll get to hear it in person next year on one of my So California trips. On another note, I was searching online and came across some AV videos...Peter Breuninger....and it was fun seeing you, Tim, Eric Hider and Triode Pete
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: mdconnelly on October 20, 2017, 05:13:52 AM
Nick, a couple years ago I replaced all my separate components (and butt-load of power cords and interconnects) with a Devialet Expert 200.   New, that will definitely blow your budget.  Since the Expert 200 has now been replaced by the 220 Pro, you might find a good deal on a 200 (but probably still over $2500).  However, since it will replace your amp, preamp, DAC, phono pre and most of your cables, you may find it'll work.  Might be worth doing the math.   I actually came out ahead after selling all the stuff it replaced.   Sound quality has never been better!   
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: shadowlight on October 20, 2017, 05:42:55 AM
May be Onix 125W amp is the one.

I have the a120 which is my backup amp  :thumb:.  I like that it is dual mono setup.  I believe the newer one is also dual mono.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Hugh on October 20, 2017, 06:34:19 AM
Nick, a couple years ago I replaced all my separate components (and butt-load of power cords and interconnects) with a Devialet Expert 200.   New, that will definitely blow your budget.  Since the Expert 200 has now been replaced by the 220 Pro, you might find a good deal on a 200 (but probably still over $2500).  However, since it will replace your amp, preamp, DAC, phono pre and most of your cables, you may find it'll work.  Might be worth doing the math.   I actually came out ahead after selling all the stuff it replaced.   Sound quality has never been better!

Devialet is a good and sound product.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Hugh on October 20, 2017, 06:34:42 AM
May be Onix 125W amp is the one.

I have the a120 which is my backup amp  :thumb:.  I like that it is dual mono setup.  I believe the newer one is also dual mono.

Correct.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: richidoo on October 20, 2017, 11:02:56 AM
The "neutral etched sound" is the Timepieces. The McCormack is a musically balanced amp, it's not the problem, imo. You probably would have tired of the TPs sooner without the McCormack. You can pile on distortion to try to tame the TPs, or you can move on.

SP Tech was never a final destination speaker, cuz the sound is so dominating over the music. If you can find a more musically balanced speaker I think you'll be happy, after a little jonesy.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Hugh on October 20, 2017, 05:05:55 PM
The "neutral etched sound" is the Timepieces. The McCormack is a musically balanced amp, it's not the problem, imo. You probably would have tired of the TPs sooner without the McCormack. You can pile on distortion to try to tame the TPs, or you can move on.

SP Tech was never a final destination speaker, cuz the sound is so dominating over the music. If you can find a more musically balanced speaker I think you'll be happy, after a little jonesy.

I can’t say any better.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Folsom on October 20, 2017, 05:57:50 PM
Audio Alchemy DPA-1 w/ whatever $500 buys you for a volume controller preamp. That's a very nice option. Sorry I'm not sure on integrated. If something else comes to mind I'll come back to the thread.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: malloy on October 22, 2017, 06:41:54 AM
Hi Nick,

Unless you are totally opposed to solid state, I'd recommend a used Plinius integrated - a 9100, 9200 has 200wpc and remote. Very tube-like midrange but not the bloom of tubes, of course.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on October 22, 2017, 09:54:09 AM
Good suggestions, guys......but I may have solved my issues and questions about speakers and amplification. Pls see my new post in Bipolar System Disorders.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on October 22, 2017, 10:02:52 AM
The "neutral etched sound" is the Timepieces. The McCormack is a musically balanced amp, it's not the problem, imo. You probably would have tired of the TPs sooner without the McCormack. You can pile on distortion to try to tame the TPs, or you can move on.

SP Tech was never a final destination speaker, cuz the sound is so dominating over the music. If you can find a more musically balanced speaker I think you'll be happy, after a little jonesy.

Rich,
I think you’re right re the SPs and I may have found a solution. I’m preparing a new post
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on December 27, 2017, 12:06:30 PM
Just an update. As I’m waiting for my two pair of speakers to sell, I’m continuing to look at integrateds. The integrated is appealing as it’s a one box solution which also means less wires!  I’ll be using the 6” ....or so...Mark Audio single drivers which have an efficiency of about 89 dB iirc. I think $2,000 would be my max outlay, so it would be used gear. I’m sure leaning toward the tube sound also, but not absolutely committed to it. A slight problem would be the weight, but lifting $40 - 50+ lbs of a small size is still manageable.
Sonically, from what I’ve read and Gary’s use of the Primaluna amp, that might be a good solution.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: richidoo on December 27, 2017, 12:27:20 PM
Cary SLI-80 is a nice amp, usually available used. Very good transformers, made in USA, tube rectification, 6922+6SN7+KT88 is a nice rich sound. It's all solid steel so it's heavy but less than 40#.

Edit: and it has remote VC and mute. Switchable between triode mode for more lush sound, or pentode mode for higher power cleaner sound. And it's very pretty. Looks old antique tube, excellent conversation piece for audiophobe neighbors, and high WAF. Tell them it is the ECU for steam locomotive.

Pics:  http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649394105-cary-sli80/
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: HAL on December 27, 2017, 12:59:44 PM
The Parasound Halo Integrated sounded great at RMAF2017 driving Tekton smaller speakers. 

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAHAINT&variation=SIL
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on December 28, 2017, 08:03:39 AM
Cary SLI-80 is a nice amp, usually available used. Very good transformers, made in USA, tube rectification, 6922+6SN7+KT88 is a nice rich sound. It's all solid steel so it's heavy but less than 40#.

Edit: and it has remote VC and mute. Switchable between triode mode for more lush sound, or pentode mode for higher power cleaner sound. And it's very pretty. Looks old antique tube, excellent conversation piece for audiophobe neighbors, and high WAF. Tell them it is the ECU for steam locomotive.

Pics:  http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649394105-cary-sli80/

Good info. Had never thought of a Cary. I do like the idea of triode/pentode choice. Interested in that lush sound  :drool:
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on December 28, 2017, 08:08:31 AM
The Parasound Halo Integrated sounded great at RMAF2017 driving Tekton smaller speakers. 

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAHAINT&variation=SIL


Thanks, Rich. Might be the poor man’s version of a Devialet... the Swiss army knife of integrateds?
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: HAL on December 28, 2017, 08:10:44 AM
Designed by John Curl and has about everything you need in an Integrated.  I have really like John's designs over the years, and probably his only integrated system.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: rollo on December 28, 2017, 09:28:47 AM
  I think your barking up the wrong tree. Your components are VG. Speakers is what you need to try.



charles
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on December 28, 2017, 12:52:45 PM
  I think your barking up the wrong tree. Your components are VG. Speakers is what you need to try.

charles

As soon as one pair of my two available speaker pairs are sold, I’m getting the new speakers. The integrated is just a little wishful thinking til I get there. As I’ll need a preamp for the phono anyway, I’m considering an integrated as its one less separate .... and cabling....to deal with. If the integrateds don’t pan out, I may look at a Tortuga. A better bang for the buck though seems to be a one chassis solution.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on December 28, 2017, 12:56:30 PM
Designed by John Curl and has about everything you need in an Integrated.  I have really like John's designs over the years, and probably his only integrated system.

Yes, the legendary John Curl. A friend has the Vendetta Research phono and will never part with it.
As I’m pretty close to Las Vegas, maybe there’s a dealer there so I can check it out
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: rollo on December 28, 2017, 01:09:12 PM
  I think your barking up the wrong tree. Your components are VG. Speakers is what you need to try.

charles

As soon as one pair of my two available speaker pairs are sold, I’m getting the new speakers. The integrated is just a little wishful thinking til I get there. As I’ll need a preamp for the phono anyway, I’m considering an integrated as its one less separate .... and cabling....to deal with. If the integrateds don’t pan out, I may look at a Tortuga. A better bang for the buck though seems to be a one chassis solution.

  Wait ! Hold them Horses. Passive preamps can be lean, especially with Phono stage. Stay with active IMHO. Lots out there to choose from all depends on budget. Check out audio Hungary APR204.
Bill Bakers as well from Response Audio. Or Melody.


charles
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on December 28, 2017, 01:42:55 PM
  I think your barking up the wrong tree. Your components are VG. Speakers is what you need to try.

charles

As soon as one pair of my two available speaker pairs are sold, I’m getting the new speakers. The integrated is just a little wishful thinking til I get there. As I’ll need a preamp for the phono anyway, I’m considering an integrated as its one less separate .... and cabling....to deal with. If the integrateds don’t pan out, I may look at a Tortuga. A better bang for the buck though seems to be a one chassis solution.

  Wait ! Hold them Horses. Passive preamps can be lean, especially with Phono stage. Stay with active IMHO. Lots out there to choose from all depends on budget. Check out audio Hungary APR204.
Bill Bakers as well from Response Audio. Or Melody.


charles

Good point, Charles. All horses on hold....Still checking what’s out there on the used ... I mean pre-owned...market for 2k or less (with a remote)
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on January 03, 2018, 06:05:58 PM
An update on the integrateds search. Have been doing lots of reading and my favorites so far are the
VPI 299D, Cary SLI-80 or the Fi version and Primaluna Dialog Premium. I’ve eliminated others that have very limited power or they’re simply too expensive, even on the used market. Another option I would consider is the Audio Hungary preamp that Charles highly recommends and Folsom’s amp.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: tmazz on January 03, 2018, 11:01:38 PM
An update on the integrateds search. Have been doing lots of reading and my favorites so far are the
VPI 299D, Cary SLI-80 or the Fi version and Primaluna Dialog Premium. I’ve eliminated others that have very limited power or they’re simply too expensive, even on the used market. Another option I would consider is the Audio Hungary preamp that Charles highly recommends and Folsom’s amp.

I have heard the VPI on several occasions and was very impressed with it, although I think you might have a tough time finding one for $2k or under.

I have not heard the Prima Luna integrated, but did like what I heard from their stand alone preamp.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on January 04, 2018, 07:25:31 AM
An update on the integrateds search. Have been doing lots of reading and my favorites so far are the
VPI 299D, Cary SLI-80 or the Fi version and Primaluna Dialog Premium. I’ve eliminated others that have very limited power or they’re simply too expensive, even on the used market. Another option I would consider is the Audio Hungary preamp that Charles highly recommends and Folsom’s amp.

I have heard the VPI on several occasions and was very impressed with it, although I think you might have a tough time finding one for $2k or under.

I have not heard the Prima Luna integrated, but did like what I heard from their stand alone preamp.

Good to know you’ve actually heard and liked it. There are actually a couple of the used VPI’s on the market for $2,000 and $2,200
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Hugh on January 04, 2018, 02:42:52 PM
Nick,

I may have a demo Melody AN211 laying around somewhere.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on January 04, 2018, 06:29:25 PM
Nick,

I may have a demo Melody AN211 laying around somewhere.

Sending a PM
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: tmazz on January 04, 2018, 07:54:48 PM
An update on the integrateds search. Have been doing lots of reading and my favorites so far are the
VPI 299D, Cary SLI-80 or the Fi version and Primaluna Dialog Premium. I’ve eliminated others that have very limited power or they’re simply too expensive, even on the used market. Another option I would consider is the Audio Hungary preamp that Charles highly recommends and Folsom’s amp.

I have heard the VPI on several occasions and was very impressed with it, although I think you might have a tough time finding one for $2k or under.

I have not heard the Prima Luna integrated, but did like what I heard from their stand alone preamp.

Good to know you’ve actually heard and liked it. There are actually a couple of the used VPI’s on the market for $2,000 and $2,200

That's a really good price.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: StereoNut on January 05, 2018, 10:21:52 AM
...Sonically, from what I’ve read and Gary’s use of the Primaluna amp, that might be a good solution.

Nick

FWIW, I have a Primaluna Prologue pre-amp in my system that sounds really good. I can't imagine their integrated sounding bad.

My 2¢

Bill
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on January 05, 2018, 12:55:06 PM
...Sonically, from what I’ve read and Gary’s use of the Primaluna amp, that might be a good solution.

Nick

FWIW, I have a Primaluna Prologue pre-amp in my system that sounds really good. I can't imagine their integrated sounding bad.

My 2¢

Bill

Bill,
AN member Gary has the Primaluna amp and loves it. I think I’d be quite satisfied if I got one. Thanks for your 2 cents
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: jbilos on January 30, 2018, 08:46:02 PM
Rogue Cronus Magnum II (auditioned this past weekend, excellent warm sound)
Primaluna Prologue
Jolida 3602s
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on January 30, 2018, 09:24:25 PM
Rogue Cronus Magnum II (auditioned this past weekend, excellent warm sound)
Primaluna Prologue
Jolida 3602s

Hi John,
I read a bit on the Cronus and it seems like an excellent integrated. Now that my new speakers are finally being made, I’ll be able to make a decision soon. I am looking for a warmer sound, but not at the expense of losing a lot of detail. What it is your opinion about that, or would you need to audition it in your home?
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on January 30, 2018, 11:02:06 PM
here's a list of integrated amps i have tried and really liked.  (yes, some quite vintage, but i'd say they're more than competitive w/the current offerings:
- revox b251 (remote available)
- sansui au11000
- sansui au717
- thule ia100 (remote)
- audio innovations alto
- alchemist (any)
i also like these, cuz they offer main ins/pre outs (except the audio innovations & alchemist).  which means you could insert an active eq in the chain, and use an outboard amp for subs, and have your mains seeing only the higher frequencies w/another (tube?) amp.  ;)  and, i also like their tape monitor loops, which allow you to hook up something like a dbx 3bx, which really is nice to have for compressed software, and can be removed from the signal path when not used.

other integrateds i would recommend based on my experience w/other product by the same mfr are
- creek (esp the 5350se)
- revox b150
- revox b250
- electrocompaniet (any)
- arcam
- mesa tigris (no tape loop, but does have a pre out)
- manley stingray

doug s.


Interesting you should mention Revox. I had one of their fine tuners years ago. There are a number of these companies I haven’t heard of and will do searches. Certainly I’ve heard of sansui, but im a bit surprised it would be included in your list. Maybe i can get my speakers in 3 weeks. Then the fun begins....
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on February 02, 2018, 10:35:05 PM
hi nick!

in my endless internet meanderings, i came across this, and it made me think of you.
(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/finale/4.jpg)

reviews:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/finale/1.html (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/finale/1.html)

http://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/finale-audios-vivace-minis-hearing-is-believing/
 (http://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/finale-audios-vivace-minis-hearing-is-believing/)
mfr:
http://www.finaleaudio.com/the-new-vivace-mini/
 (http://www.finaleaudio.com/the-new-vivace-mini/)
mfr, soon-to-be-released:
http://www.finaleaudio.com/final-voc/ (http://www.finaleaudio.com/final-voc/)

it also makes me realize that i really do need to unbox the gemme audio tanto's i bought several years ago, yet still remain in their boxes.   :roll:
and, you may want to peruse the web for used gemme audio offerings - same designer.  as well as designer of arteluthe speakers.

doug s.

Hello Doug,
Interesting that you would send info on this speaker. It’s rather amazing it can perform this well with
2 3/4” drivers. My new Mark Audio drivers are a whopping 4 1/2”. My cabinet size will be similar, but not as deep. As I’m trying to accommodate my wife’s wishes, I came across this cabinet which we both liked.
http://frugal-phile.com/

The shape looked quite nice and it has a small footprint. It will likely be bamboo and don’t know about the stain yet. The tweak in the design will allow the cabinet to be placed near the rear wall to increase the bass. To me, it’s a toss up whether this will compare with the lower end of my just sold SP Techs. That speaker had quite a “presence”. Although i prefer not do, I am prepared to use a sub if necessary.
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on February 03, 2018, 09:41:30 AM
Hello Doug,
Interesting that you would send info on this speaker. It’s rather amazing it can perform this well with
2 3/4” drivers. My new Mark Audio drivers are a whopping 4 1/2”. My cabinet size will be similar, but not as deep. As I’m trying to accommodate my wife’s wishes, I came across this cabinet which we both liked.
http://frugal-phile.com/

The shape looked quite nice and it has a small footprint. It will likely be bamboo and don’t know about the stain yet. The tweak in the design will allow the cabinet to be placed near the rear wall to increase the bass. To me, it’s a toss up whether this will compare with the lower end of my just sold SP Techs. That speaker had quite a “presence”. Although i prefer not do, I am prepared to use a sub if necessary.
Nick
nick,

curious which cabinet are you planning to use - the link you sent goes to a plethora of cabinets!

re: bass, i suspect that you will be wanting subs, regardless of which single-driver speaker you go with.  and i say subs, not sub.  you really do need a pair, set up in stereo just like the mains, in order not to degrade the soundstaging; regardless of what anyone says re: bass not being directional.  it's also much easier to integrate two (or more) subs into a room due to lessening of room node issue vs one sub.  and, summing bass to mono typically also introduces signal cancellation, meaning you are not always getting the full reproduction of what's on the recording.  if you have to do mono bass, my experience is that the least worst option is to have the sub directly in the middle of the two speakers, and nearfield is best.  even if it means having to move it during listening sessions.

doug s.

Doug,
The plan was to use a modification of this cabinet. As to the subs, I understand exactly what you’re saying. Per a recent email from the designer, there are some issues to be worked out. At least I hope we can work them out.....
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on February 03, 2018, 04:06:27 PM

Doug,
The plan was to use a modification of this cabinet. As to the subs, I understand exactly what you’re saying. Per a recent email from the designer, there are some issues to be worked out. At least I hope we can work them out.....
Nick
so, the cabinet is to be like the one shown in the pic - much wider than deep?  since you said it was similar to the vivace mini, i assumed it was one of the other cabinets from that site, as the vivace mini's cabinets are barely wider than the drivers.

i hope you work out the issue - those cabinets in the pic look cool...

doug s.

Yes, a bit wider than deep. That is/was the plan anyway. More to follow....soon
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on May 12, 2018, 10:13:08 AM
Now that I’ve purchased and am quite happy with the kef LS 50s, I’m again considering an amp or integrated. I’ve read all the recommendations and am also considering class D or the new ice 1200as module amps. Rich raves about his custom made unit and I’ve looked at the Nord website and also Bellissimo, Apollon, Rouge and Mivera.
https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/products
https://www.apollonaudio.com/apollon-audio-as1200-class-d-ice-power-based-amplifier/
https://www.rougeaudiodesign.com/1200as-en
https://www.miveraaudio.com/product-page/purepower-standard-icepower-1200as2-2-channel-amp
https://www.facebook.com/BellissimoAudio/posts/392672937831624
So there are lots of choices and the icepower amps are very reasonably priced. I’m looking for an integrated icepower amp, but haven’t looked at the sites closely enough and haven’t found anything via a search. Seems the ideal combination would be an icepower 1200as would a tube pre in ine chassis.
It would be interesting to know the differences in these amps vs Rich’s tweaked ice 1200.
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: TomS on May 13, 2018, 01:21:42 PM
I don't know about all of the other amps, but I do know a bit about Rich's, as I have a few which are identical to it. In terms of "tweaks", it has all Furutech Rhodium connectors - FI-06 NCF IEC inlet, FT-807R binding posts, and FT-786F XLR . Everything about the module is bone stock. The wire is, well, just very short pieces of wire 8)
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on May 13, 2018, 01:49:43 PM
I don't know about all of the other amps, but I do know a bit about Rich's, as I have a few which are identical to it. In terms of "tweaks", it has all Furutech Rhodium connectors - FI-06 NCF IEC inlet, FT-807R binding posts, and FT-786F XLR . Everything about the module is bone stock. The wire is, well, just very short pieces of wire 8)

You have a couple of these? Based on my reading, it appears some icepower modules were used for custom amps, but apparently modules are no longer sold individually.
As to the Furutech rhodium, I have no experience with it, but am a believer as I read Dave E’s recent comments about it. I’ve given a lot of thought recently as to tube vs ss amps and I have no real preference either way. I just want excellent sound. Depending on the amp, I’d consider matching it with a tube pre.
If you have an extra icepower amp you want to part with, send me a pm. Or if you know of someone who has the modules and can build me one, do let me know as well. Otherwise, I’ll do more research on the companies I’ve listed and keep looking at the ads for used gear.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: TomS on May 13, 2018, 02:26:00 PM
Replied by PM
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on May 13, 2018, 02:44:54 PM
Replied by PM

PM sent
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on May 14, 2018, 10:19:08 PM
Now that I’ve purchased and am quite happy with the kef LS 50s, I’m again considering an amp or integrated. I’ve read all the recommendations and am also considering class D or the new ice 1200as module amps. Rich raves about his custom made unit and I’ve looked at the Nord website and also Bellissimo, Apollon, Rouge and Mivera.
https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/products
https://www.apollonaudio.com/apollon-audio-as1200-class-d-ice-power-based-amplifier/
https://www.rougeaudiodesign.com/1200as-en
https://www.miveraaudio.com/product-page/purepower-standard-icepower-1200as2-2-channel-amp
https://www.facebook.com/BellissimoAudio/posts/392672937831624
So there are lots of choices and the icepower amps are very reasonably priced. I’m looking for an integrated icepower amp, but haven’t looked at the sites closely enough and haven’t found anything via a search. Seems the ideal combination would be an icepower 1200as would a tube pre in ine chassis.
It would be interesting to know the differences in these amps vs Rich’s tweaked ice 1200.
Nick
nick,

i did some investigation, as i followed the initial mivera thread, as i was interested when at ~$800 for a kit.  and, i'd have been interested in the full-monty mods - if the original case was still offered in that configuration in kit form, which would have kept the costs down.  but for $1500 for the standard build in a fancy case, and $1800 for the mods in the fancy case, i lost interest.  even if it's still a bargain, relative to other "name" offerings.  because i know if the performance is really there, like everything else, the price will be even less than the initial $800 in short order.  because it's apparent that there's really not much to these amps:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jUwJC6wq__5W7JOu0dPoWTsK2R6nFvMs7FGBz0A7V40w6cz8tAfa4zOe0Wq0k9DfYWm95F22x24G-fUQHnNvjjl82FxWD0kqNlUv6KZA3vlHPsaxU2hIVibBBcDOOAyJs6dkZHk3ryvQ0OwjYnZuH7879l64tMdi0ycJs7URBidKT4Ov7h01-p9raEFpqfqQMOBHvXKWeUXqB66pod1wWN2j3AGXIsXF3V6hFlGHSr0ju1ACp4gQgw66fzzc11APZrKRicfEnrz_GQ6T-7qKtPMyyXQD-GADLkBTAzJeF2qMqbQ1Mz4HpqL0Go6UJlxbXbFD5KzDIACOZYWMv8HuuaUVFfbYJHm-ouWOiypJNa6MCjZBXFsVjGPOuWq3VnltR0R4we5u_BwpB7vrHNkHvzA18mUYCElKg0y0bc88s_QhigMiWT-vpp2fEAaflJ5lfNv77VSVwwe5BYQvjMPpaAJzMgauagwlCgJRVhtWoAy2M6L3D_6Y6zt9hH88UAl7bebiUO4cYNU09p40Y8qvJgDFite4ET8SRbmS05C6XQc05KItYB5Zg_k6iWa_AS0UtMcUstlOWCK8DJ0aZ1htt8pcqKDba-CDx7dcIZQ=w711-h679-no) 

and, it's not like i'm lacking in the amp department presently.   :lol:

anyway, i've had some back-n-forth w/jared from bellissimo, and initial feedback is he'd do a full-monty build, like mivera's, but in a standard case, for $1300 shipped.  considering mivera will cost another ~$100 for shipping, that may be something worth considering.

doug s.


Doug,
Thanks for your investigation and input on the 1200as amps. I’m intrigued with these new icepower models and I might soon be able to get my hands on a stereo amp with the Furutech rhodium goodies....and for a darn good price.....at least imho. It was built when the modules were available for diy. So I look forward to that opportunity if it arises.
Now, if that doesn’t pan out, then I have the list of recommendations and will pursue some of those and others.

I must say I’ve been following the Mivera threads and all the  changes along the way. I’ve also been fascinated with Mikes work on his dac which will be similar to the MSB Select which retails for $90,000. I’ll likely start a thread on that shortly.
Now, my beautifully thought out sub first, then amp/integrated next strategy has been turned upside down because Emil offered his Border Patrol SE coax version for sale yesterday....and I bought it!
I’ve wanted to try the BP SE version for quite some time and the price was pretty good. So next Monday, it’ll be here and it’s either the Antelope or the Border Patrol.
Now as to the sub situation, Enrico from Rythmik subs has answered a couple of my emails about their subs and also recommended their LS 22, which is a dual driver 98 lb beast. I explained that my intent was not centered on filling the entire 15x29 room with thunderous bass, just my listening environment 11’ from the speakers. I’ll be in touch with him again tomorrow.

Finally, I recently saw a Melos 333 for sale....maybe $1,300. But it’s a two chassis, would cost a lot to upgrade to Porzilli’s latest and I don’t have an unlimited bank account.
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on May 15, 2018, 03:04:31 PM
Hello Doug,
Had a nice reply typed up and it’s gone. Oh well....
The stereo 1200as amp is a diy unit from a guy at another forum. I have no idea how he got those modules and I’ve been asked to keep the information private. I’m quite interested and the price of admission seems reasonable to me.
I’m not really a flavor if the month kind of guy, but Rich’s glowing comments have me interested as do comments from others who’s postings and associated gear I’m familiar with.
Some glowing reports or recommendations obviously don’t pan out like my adventure with the Nolas and those little Mark Audio Alpair drivers, but some recommendations like those of the kef LS50s do!!

As to the pesky sub situation, my wife and I have guidelines as to size and placement and that’s the way its gotta be. Heck, I was happy with the bass from my SP Tech drivers...but yeah, I’d like a little more.

As to the Melos, I’ll take a peak again. Don’t recall seeing any mention of phono and I do have a Don Sachs phono here...never played yet and gathering dust. But I’m holding on to that baby right now. Don’s stuff has nothing but very positive comments.

That’s it for now. Need to call contractors to do work on the house. I’m lucky to get a 50% response from these guys
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on May 15, 2018, 11:11:57 PM
nick,

another interesting avenue to explore - while i was exploring the schiit eitr (nice name, eh?) , i also happened to take a gander at its other schiity offerings.  it was interesting to note, in the reviews of its (relatively) reasonably priced integrated amp and its power amp, that besides pretty-much universally excellent reviews, several of the reviewers used the gear w/ls50's and really liked that combination...

http://www.schiit.com/products/vidar
http://www.schiit.com/products/ragnarok

doug s.

Doug,
Nice pieces for quite good prices and good comments about the raggie as well. But no remote?? I use that thing all the time!  Other than having heard of Mike Moffatt from the old Theta days and his partner Stoddard from ??, I don’t know much about Schiit. Some years back,
I was considering finding old Golden Tube Audio amps and having Jeff from Sonic Craft mod them. During that conversation, he commented on the Bifrost dac and that he could mod it into an exemplary unit. But I never took him up on it. Don’t know anyone who has the Sch... stuff either.

Now as to “approved” locations for subs, I may turn that part of the discussion over to my wife......
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: tmazz on May 16, 2018, 08:12:14 AM
Nick. FWIW, two of our AudioSyndrome members, who have been die hard tube guys since the 1980s recently switched over to Peachtree integrateds and are very happy with them.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: shadowlight on May 16, 2018, 09:40:16 AM
Nick. FWIW, two of our AudioSyndrome members, who have been die hard tube guys since the 1980s recently switched over to Peachtree integrateds and are very happy with them.

Tom, which Peachtree integrated?
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on May 16, 2018, 10:46:54 AM
Nick. FWIW, two of our AudioSyndrome members, who have been die hard tube guys since the 1980s recently switched over to Peachtree integrateds and are very happy with them.

Tom,
Haven’t looked at Peachtree in ages. I must say I don’t recall their products being as stylish. It sure is another Swiss army knife type product. In addition to the Parasound, the other manufacturer that gets rave reviews is Hegel....from Norway I think.
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: rollo on May 16, 2018, 10:59:30 AM
Nick. FWIW, two of our AudioSyndrome members, who have been die hard tube guys since the 1980s recently switched over to Peachtree integrateds and are very happy with them.

 For what its worth the reason was my suggestion since one owns maggies which love current and quads which also loves current based amps. The Maggie guy was using 70W amps the Quad guy using mushy VTL amps oye !. Cost was a huge factor for them, they are quite frugal.
Peachtree is a VG amp in certain systems One can do so much better if willing to spend a tad more.

charles
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on May 24, 2018, 11:26:39 PM
Well,
I bought an icepower 1200as amp from member TomS and it arrived today. It was not made by Mivera Mike. The Takachi case is beautiful and I really wonder why Mike went to all the trouble of the super fancy other case.
Anyway, the amp will have to sit for nearly a week as we’re having some painting and flooring done.
Yes, it’ll be a very sad week.......
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on May 25, 2018, 07:27:30 PM
Well,
I bought an icepower 1200as amp from member TomS and it arrived today. It was not made by Mivera Mike. The Takachi case is beautiful and I really wonder why Mike went to all the trouble of the super fancy other case.
Anyway, the amp will have to sit for nearly a week as we’re having some painting and flooring done.
Yes, it’ll be a very sad week.......
can you pull the lid and take pics?  it wasn't made by mike, but it's one of his kits, correct?

doug s.

Doug,
Unable to do much of anything right now. Due to the painting etc stuff  is covered with drop cloths etc  Really doubt it was a Mike kit. Don’t know how it was sourced and put together.
Nick
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: TomS on May 27, 2018, 08:12:32 AM
Well,
I bought an icepower 1200as amp from member TomS and it arrived today. It was not made by Mivera Mike. The Takachi case is beautiful and I really wonder why Mike went to all the trouble of the super fancy other case.
Anyway, the amp will have to sit for nearly a week as we’re having some painting and flooring done.
Yes, it’ll be a very sad week.......
can you pull the lid and take pics?  it wasn't made by mike, but it's one of his kits, correct?

doug s.
No, absolutely nothing to do with him.

Inside is just a stock module and stock wiring in a Takachi case, so nothing to see there at all. There are no reasonable mods for the 1200AS2 as of yet. They're all the same.

The connectors are Furutech FI-06NCF for IEC, FT-786F XLR, FT-807 binding posts, all Rhodium. They're just good quality parts, no idea if it makes any sonic difference from other decent quality parts. 2-3" of wire inside, very doubtful.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Folsom on May 27, 2018, 04:54:11 PM
It would be a bigger upgrade to make a gap between the binding posts that isnt metal. It can be fairly small. This would be better than the silliness of trying to use uber wire. Furutech makes great connectors. The only change I might consider is an NCF IEC inlet, cheap and audible.

Oh wait, if there are any Y caps from line to ground, they sould be removed. And maybe a couple other possibilities... oh gawd, am I getting myself into something?
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: TomS on May 27, 2018, 08:40:00 PM
Yes, we had a few for some special projects. These were left over. They do sound quite good, very powerful and free of grain and glare, can drive most anything. They won't conquer the world and solve world hunger as some seem to think though. At Rich's GTG the amp really made the Legacy SE's come alive IMHO.

There are a lot of competitive amps out there, though at the $1-2k price point these are hard to beat. Their real utility shows when using the "hanger" modules which support bi-amp, tri-amp, etc using the existing onboard power supplies. Very cost-effective options for oems. Hypex has similar capability as well.

Note that soldering wire into a JST terminal, especially more gauge than is intended to fit will mechanically weaken the connection right at the end of the solder joint where it ends on the wire. That becomes the weakest point and may break. It's just a bad practice so I choose to avoid this. If it breaks, it doesn't matter how much better it sounds.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: richidoo on May 28, 2018, 09:36:37 AM
The 1200AS is the only B&O amp to use the new ICEedge chips. The older AS amps don't use that (yet.)

This amp is distilled water at 1000psi. It is not VSOP or hot chocolate. It will not entertain you. It is not worthy of gear worship because it doesn't cost enough and it is as sexy as a motherboard. But it's an adequate appliance in every audiophile performance parameter. It could make other "audiophile" components seem inadequate. But it doesn't "outshine" the other components or draw attention to itself.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: richidoo on May 28, 2018, 12:00:03 PM
As I understand the new ICEedge chip is only available on the 1200W amplifier at this time. But the other AS amps will hang on the 1200AS.

All ICE products are only available to manufacturers. Anybody who sells them as modules or amp kits gets a spanking. This is why bavmike stopped selling $900 kits. No ICE DIY, it's always been like that.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: richidoo on May 28, 2018, 01:19:28 PM
Yeah, sorry doug, I misread what you meant. I thought you meant their other ICE modules. 

I can imagine that happening, buying just the chips and hiring engineering support from B&O to develop their own amp designs using ICEedge controller. If they want to do their own circuit layout using their high end design philosophies and make their own decisions for high end audio. It would be interesting to compare a 1200AS to a Sim Audio or mark Levinson version of it.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: richidoo on May 28, 2018, 03:54:25 PM
Their advertisement sure implies that ICEedge will be available in different power ratings. But a month ago I thought only 1 was yet available. 300W would have been enough for my speakers. I think they have to spread the tech over their whole line to recoup the development costs. Else why bother if the previous ICE technology was "good enough"
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on June 13, 2018, 07:22:36 AM
I have been quiet as I’m still in the midst of the painting and flooring project. It’s not something I’d ever want to repeat. That 1200as amp is sitting “on ice” awaiting the completion of this project. Have yet to play even one note. Maybe by this weekend it’ll happen.
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: P.I. on June 18, 2018, 10:01:53 PM
I have been quiet as I’m still in the midst of the painting and flooring project. It’s not something I’d ever want to repeat. That 1200as amp is sitting “on ice” awaiting the completion of this project. Have yet to play even one note. Maybe by this weekend it’ll happen.
Hang in there, Brother!
Title: Re: need recommendation re integrated amp
Post by: Nick B on June 18, 2018, 10:10:17 PM
I have been quiet as I’m still in the midst of the painting and flooring project. It’s not something I’d ever want to repeat. That 1200as amp is sitting “on ice” awaiting the completion of this project. Have yet to play even one note. Maybe by this weekend it’ll happen.
Hang in there, Brother!

Dave,
I’m hanging by a thread. Maybe, please please, the guy will be done tomorrow or Wednesday 🙏🙏
Nick