Author Topic: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub  (Read 39663 times)

Offline rollo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #105 on: April 19, 2018, 08:35:53 AM »
  Nick do not forget PSB or Elac. We demonstrated the 20W integrated with 86db speakers playing Joey Bonnamassa and blew the house down at one of the Audiosyndrome meetings. No break up whatsoever.


charles
 
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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #106 on: April 19, 2018, 09:25:50 AM »
  Nick do not forget PSB or Elac. We demonstrated the 20W integrated with 86db speakers playing Joey Bonnamassa and blew the house down at one of the Audiosyndrome meetings. No break up whatsoever.


charles
 

Charles,
I looked at Elac before, so will do so again. As to the PSB, am not familiar with any of their models. Right now, I’m using my trusty McCormack with very good results. It’s just a different presentation from Gary’s class A Pass. Over the years, I’ve probably had more inefficient speakers than not, so going to a small watt amp is more of a risk than I’m willing to take right now.
Are you talking about an Audio Hungary integrated??
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
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Offline rollo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #107 on: April 19, 2018, 09:44:37 AM »
  Nick do not forget PSB or Elac. We demonstrated the 20W integrated with 86db speakers playing Joey Bonnamassa and blew the house down at one of the Audiosyndrome meetings. No break up whatsoever.


charles
 

Charles,
I looked at Elac before, so will do so again. As to the PSB, am not familiar with any of their models. Right now, I’m using my trusty McCormack with very good results. It’s just a different presentation from Gary’s class A Pass. Over the years, I’ve probably had more inefficient speakers than not, so going to a small watt amp is more of a risk than I’m willing to take right now.
Are you talking about an Audio Hungary integrated??

  Yes the Audio Hungary was used. The A50i is the 50W version. Not trying to sell you an amp just saying that the 20W class"A" shook the dam house. We used Fritz BE that day.
   You know what your doing no schooling from me just conversation.

charles
 


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #108 on: April 19, 2018, 12:36:49 PM »
Hi Doug,
Was wondering where you’ve been. Enjoy reading your posts. Hope all is well for you. Is the notification issue resolved? I was going to give an update on the LS 50s, so I’ll do that now.
I like these speakers and like them more than the Nolas and my single, full range drivers. They are fun to listen to. But there  are two things that I’ve noticed: the resolution doesn't appear to be quite as good as my old SP Techs and the midrange appears to be slightly veiled. Now the resolution issue I’m pretty sure of, but as to the slightly veiled midrange, I’m not as sure. It’s just more of an impression. Now these are slight issues and I may be all wet, so to speak, but heck, this isn’t an exact science.
So part of me wants to get a small sub and maybe talk to Danny about upgrading the crossover as was mentioned on a thread at AC. But....the other part of me wants to try a Philharmonitor BMR or a ?? not sure haha. But I will say the longer this goes on, the less likely I’ll want to spend the money on the new Fritz BE or the Aurum Cantus Vola 3 (I believe that’s the model).
Anyways...that’s my situation right now
Nick
hi nick,

well, i got notification for this last post, so ya, i guess the problem self-sorted itself out!   :D

i don't think the ls50's are lacking in resolution or veiled anywhere, (sort of the same issue, imo), but they may not be the last word in these areas; ie: while not having done a direct head-to-head comparison, i suspect my piega's might have the edge here.  but, at retail price ~6 time more, i'd hope so, ha!

also, regarding running a sub (or two); w/them, if you were to actively cross over the ls50's so they don't see the lowest octave or two, it's likely that, whatever the resolution is now, it will get better.  and, you may also find they will do better w/less power if actively crossed over to subs.  i am also interested in the ls50 internal x-over mod thing; it seems there may be something to gain there.

regarding something different; i am likely a retailer's worst nightmare!  unless it's something that's a freaking bargain brand-new, i'd never recommend buying anything except used.  the only exception (besides bargain, and maybe even if it's a bargain) is if it's rare on the used market.  example:  the philharmonitors are rare on the sued market, because they're not that well-known, and i think folks have a tendency to hold on to them.  tektons, on the other hand, seem to be a bargain, but patience may actually reward you w/being able to find a used pair.  so, unless you've extensively auditioned something in your own system, and you know it's a long term keeper, i'd be reluctant to be shelling out serious coin for new gear.  but that's me, ever the cheapskate.

doug

Doug,
Being a cheapskate has it’s rewards! I did send Danny an email today about the LS 50 crossovers. To me, it might be worth, say, a $300 experiment. I’d be fine with that. For fun, I’ll keep an eye out on the used speaker market. At least I’m at a point where I can really enjoy these KEFs
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #109 on: April 19, 2018, 12:45:38 PM »
  Nick do not forget PSB or Elac. We demonstrated the 20W integrated with 86db speakers playing Joey Bonnamassa and blew the house down at one of the Audiosyndrome meetings. No break up whatsoever.


charles
 

Charles,
I looked at Elac before, so will do so again. As to the PSB, am not familiar with any of their models. Right now, I’m using my trusty McCormack with very good results. It’s just a different presentation from Gary’s class A Pass. Over the years, I’ve probably had more inefficient speakers than not, so going to a small watt amp is more of a risk than I’m willing to take right now.
Are you talking about an Audio Hungary integrated??

  Yes the Audio Hungary was used. The A50i is the 50W version. Not trying to sell you an amp just saying that the 20W class"A" shook the dam house. We used Fritz BE that day.
   You know what your doing no schooling from me just conversation.

charles
 

charles

That must have been wonderful sound!! I have a hunch the Audio Hungary integrated would be a wonderful piece. I never did find prices on the 20i and 50i today, but I vaguely recall they were at least in the 3k and 6k range. An integrated would certainly give me a lot of flexibility. As to affordability, I’d need to skip a lot of lunches and collect lots of aluminum cans :)
Nick
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 07:57:44 AM by Nick B »
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline gander

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #110 on: April 19, 2018, 08:42:38 PM »
nick, sorry, i wasn't ignoring this thread; for some reason i never got notifications of new posts - this thread or any other, either.   :shock:  i just decided to check in to see wazzup.  i hope you're enjoying the ls50's. 

doug s.

Hi Doug,
Was wondering where you’ve been. Enjoy reading your posts. Hope all is well for you. Is the notification issue resolved? I was going to give an update on the LS 50s, so I’ll do that now.
I like these speakers and like them more than the Nolas and my single, full range drivers. They are fun to listen to. But there  are two things that I’ve noticed: the resolution doesn’t appear to be quite as good as my old SP Techs and the midrange appears to be slightly veiled. Now the resolution issue I’m pretty sure of, but as to the slightly veiled midrange, I’m not as sure. It’s just more of an impression. Now these are slight issues and I may be all wet, so to speak, but heck, this isn’t an exact science.
So part of me wants to get a small sub and maybe talk to Danny about upgrading the crossover as was mentioned on a thread at AC. But....the other part of me wants to try a Philharmonitor BMR or a ?? not sure haha. But I will say the longer this goes on, the less likely I’ll want to spend the money on the new Fritz BE or the Aurum Cantus Vola 3 (I believe that’s the model).
Anyways...that’s my situation right now
Nick

 Nick, I seriously think if you put tiny self stick silicon bumpers on the underside of the speakers and on the platforms like I talked about with you, so that the speakers can’t roll off of the plattforms, and put my rollers under the speakers, your bass and mid range should tighten up and sound more detailed and at least some of that veil will go away. Try it and let me know what happens.  Also instead of using the rollers I gave you, try 1 inch diameter rollers. Those are a little bigger and they may sound better.

Gary
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 08:58:19 PM by gander »
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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #111 on: April 19, 2018, 11:09:21 PM »
nick, sorry, i wasn't ignoring this thread; for some reason i never got notifications of new posts - this thread or any other, either.   :shock:  i just decided to check in to see wazzup.  i hope you're enjoying the ls50's. 

doug s.

Hi Doug,
Was wondering where you’ve been. Enjoy reading your posts. Hope all is well for you. Is the notification issue resolved? I was going to give an update on the LS 50s, so I’ll do that now.
I like these speakers and like them more than the Nolas and my single, full range drivers. They are fun to listen to. But there  are two things that I’ve noticed: the resolution doesn’t appear to be quite as good as my old SP Techs and the midrange appears to be slightly veiled. Now the resolution issue I’m pretty sure of, but as to the slightly veiled midrange, I’m not as sure. It’s just more of an impression. Now these are slight issues and I may be all wet, so to speak, but heck, this isn’t an exact science.
So part of me wants to get a small sub and maybe talk to Danny about upgrading the crossover as was mentioned on a thread at AC. But....the other part of me wants to try a Philharmonitor BMR or a ?? not sure haha. But I will say the longer this goes on, the less likely I’ll want to spend the money on the new Fritz BE or the Aurum Cantus Vola 3 (I believe that’s the model).
Anyways...that’s my situation right now
Nick

 Nick, I seriously think if you put tiny self stick silicon bumpers on the underside of the speakers and on the platforms like I talked about with you, so that the speakers can’t roll off of the plattforms, and put my rollers under the speakers, your bass and mid range should tighten up and sound more detailed and at least some of that veil will go away. Try it and let me know what happens.  Also instead of using the rollers I gave you, try 1 inch diameter rollers. Those are a little bigger and they may sound better.

Gary

Ok, Gary, you prodded me to do it without the little bumper stops. I did not do an A/B, just put them in and enjoyed a few hours of great listening. AC grunge was minimal and yes, I turned off the fridge.
I heard a slightly cleaner, tighter presentation and it was very enjoyable. I don’t know that I got extra detail, but I’ll mess with the rollers on/rollers off scenario tomorrow night.
Roon was behaving, so it was a great night!
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline rollo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #112 on: April 20, 2018, 07:25:36 AM »
  Another consideration is Mark Audio SOTA designs. Not a dealer.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #113 on: April 20, 2018, 08:04:18 AM »
  Another consideration is Mark Audio SOTA designs. Not a dealer.


charles

Charles,
I tried full range drivers and actually ordered the Mark Audio. Single drivers just didn’t work out for me. Now as to the Rethem you like, that may be in another league
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #114 on: April 20, 2018, 10:31:50 AM »
Charles,
I tried full range drivers and actually ordered the Mark Audio. Single drivers just didn’t work out for me. Now as to the Rethem you like, that may be in another league
Nick
nick, the rethm's are a completely different vegetable.  i mean animal.   :D  first of all, they have built-in subwoofers.  secondly, they use horn-type drivers with whizzer cones.

i heard these exact speakers (the bhaava's) in this exact room, (and ran into charlie there, as well as meeting jacob george, rethm's owner); this pic was taken at the 2017 caf:

totally excellent sound; i preferred it to the $1m von schweikert/vac set-up. (note the hungarian amp there, in the background... ;))

re: the roller thing; that's actually quite interesting - i have a pair of meret re's, which are fine (imo) stand-mounts w/excellent sonics.  (mine are now cosmetically challenged, thanks to the ex throwing them down the stairs onto the basement concrete-floor.  along w/a mesa baron amp, jvc surround processor, electrocompaniet amp & preamp - ah memories!   :roll:)

anyway, the re's have solid steel bottom plates, and came w/dedicated sound anchor stands that had three small circular cutouts on top to receive three ball bearings, which the re's sat on.  they were heavy enough - ~50lbs each; constrained-layer cabinets that included lead - that they didn't need any "bumpers" to keep them from rolling off the stands.  i never actually tried them w/o the rollers to see if there was a sonic difference...




also, re: inexpensive (and used, to boot) speakers, i saw these - i've never heard 'em, but, based on the old reviews of the sierra-1 editions, and w/the upgrade drivers they use, i bet they're not half-bad...  ;)  they've been f/s for 7 weeks, so the seller may be ripe for offers. 

ad:
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649419656-ascend-acoustics-sierra-2-pair/

mfr:
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2/srm2.html

(also, the mfr sells sierra-2 drivers for $408, to replace the sierra-1 drivers, and the sierra-1 iterations are f/s used for asking prices ~$500...)

doug s.

Oh Doug,
Throwing audio equipment around, especially such stellar gear, made my heart sick 😪
Thanks for posting that pic. I’d like to be closer to some of the audio venues to hear some of this great equipment, but circumstances don’t allow it, especially at this time. I sent Danny at GR Research an email about upgrading the LS 50 xovers and I’m waiting to hear back. Using those little rollers Gary gave me does make a difference. 
I’m nitpicking with my impressions of the LS 50s. I am able to hear much of what I did with my beloved SP Techs, but those background singers and the instruments in the rear of the stage aren't quite as clearly defined. Everyone should have such serious problems 🙄
I’m keeping my options open and thank goodness there is no hurry on any of this and that I’m able to enjoy such quality speakers.
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline gander

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #115 on: April 20, 2018, 11:07:54 AM »
 I heard Nick’s new speakers this weekend and they sounded pretty damn good. Especially after I put in the new carbon fiber digital interconnect and carbon fiber analog interconnects.  Overall I think you should be very happy with them. But then there is always more… 😀

Gary
Oppo 103, SSD drive
DIY ultra low capacitance power cords, ICs and speaker cables
Audio Note 2.1B DAC
Tortuga LDR passive pre
Primaluna Dialogue4 tube, Hegel H90 int amp
DIY speakers w/8” Rullit field coil FR drivers

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #116 on: April 20, 2018, 06:04:57 PM »
I heard Nick’s new speakers this weekend and they sounded pretty damn good. Especially after I put in the new carbon fiber digital interconnect and carbon fiber analog interconnects.  Overall I think you should be very happy with them. But then there is always more… 😀

Gary

True, Gary, but you have speaker wanderlust, too :) More comments to follow soon after I plugged the rear ports and repositioned the LS 50s today
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #117 on: April 21, 2018, 10:17:44 AM »
I heard Nick’s new speakers this weekend and they sounded pretty damn good. Especially after I put in the new carbon fiber digital interconnect and carbon fiber analog interconnects.  Overall I think you should be very happy with them. But then there is always more… 😀

Gary

True, Gary, but you have speaker wanderlust, too :) More comments to follow soon after I plugged the rear ports and repositioned the LS 50s today
Nick
nick,

yes, i meant to ask you about the port plugs, as kef recommends them being plugged, either partially or completely, depending on how close you have them to the wall; i think you first mentioned you did have them close.  w/mine, i have them plugged, even tho they're way out into my room, as they're crossed to subs at 70hz.  and, i measured the total response w/a 12 band pink noise generator, and it was just a hair more even at 100hz, when i had the ports plugged.

doug s.

Doug,

I found the KEF instructions in the box. Just a few drawings in many languages, but very precise as to
placement. I have very limited room on the left side, so I’m within 18” of that side wall. That dictates the placement parameters regarding the front wall. So, I am within 18” of the front wall and that mandates using the foam plugs. If I had a lot more room on the left side and room on the front wall, then I wouldn’t need to use the plugs (if you want, I can give you the Kef measurements)

That being said, the sound last night was very crisp, precise, musical and fun to listen to. The soundstage depth was reduced, but that’s not much of an issue. There was more detail, which I appreciated and enjoyed.

I am getting quite the wide soundstage, which I presume in the design of that Uni Q driver and the left side wall relections which include wallboard and glass. I really don’t know much as to such technical things. It’s an interesting phenomenon.

That’s it for now

Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #118 on: April 21, 2018, 01:24:30 PM »
Doug,

I found the KEF instructions in the box. Just a few drawings in many languages, but very precise as to
placement. I have very limited room on the left side, so I’m within 18” of that side wall. That dictates the placement parameters regarding the front wall. So, I am within 18” of the front wall and that mandates using the foam plugs. If I had a lot more room on the left side and room on the front wall, then I wouldn’t need to use the plugs (if you want, I can give you the Kef measurements)

That being said, the sound last night was very crisp, precise, musical and fun to listen to. The soundstage depth was reduced, but that’s not much of an issue. There was more detail, which I appreciated and enjoyed.

I am getting quite the wide soundstage, which I presume in the design of that Uni Q driver and the left side wall reflections which include wallboard and glass. I really don’t know much as to such technical things. It’s an interesting phenomenon.

That’s it for now

Nick
hi nick,

thanks, i have all the factory kef stuff, including the locating dimensions regarding the plugs.  while i was the 2nd owner of mine, i was the 1st to open the boxes, as the original owner never even got that far w/them.  ;)

it sounds like sound absorption panels behind the speakers, and at the 1st reflection points on the side walls, would yield beneficial results regarding imaging depth and width, in your situation.  the reflections from the left sidewall are not making things better.  and, even if panels are not aesthetically room-friendly, perhaps you can move them into place only when having listening sessions, and then store them when not doing critical listening.

doug s.

My wife might agree to a permanent decorative panel behind the speakers. I saw a link in AC or somewhere about companies that do that. As to the side walls, it would be very tedious and expensive to cover the 2’x6’ glass panels on the left side and it’s something I don’t want to do anyway. I wish I could post a pic and I’ve tried, but I can never get it to upload. My speedtest app tells me that my upload speeds are very slow, so maybe that’s the issue.
The interesting thing about the acoustics is that the soundstage is very wide and I’m getting sound way to the right of the right speaker. The boundary wall of the right speaker is at least 6’ away.
I have traded a couple of emails with Danny Ritchie about the xover upgrade, but it would take time  for him to look at the pics on AC shown by AC member maty.
Nick
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 01:00:32 AM by Nick B »
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #119 on: April 21, 2018, 03:05:41 PM »
I have all GIK panels here done about 6 months ago. Changed the whole sound of my system so work very well.
Pretty nice choices for art panels too. Mine are just burgundy in color. But the single best thing I have done for the room/system in 10 years! Beyond wires etc. etc . Unfortunately probably the last thing we think of.