Author Topic: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub  (Read 5789 times)

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #120 on: April 15, 2018, 09:36:10 PM »
A further update on the LS 50s. Gary...aka gander on this forum.... drove up from Las Vegas today and brought along new stranded wire power cords and a digital cable and interconnects that are made of flexible carbon fiber with graphene with 100% cotton sheathing. I wasnít expecting much improvement as his cables are pretty darn good already.

Due to my initial rack placement and other factors, I had thrown together various power cords including his
solid copper cords. The digital and ic that I was using were unshielded and made from very fine gauge
copper wire. The wires are resolving and musical as well.

The first thing we switched was just the digital and it was an obvious improvement in clarity and soundstaging. I was very, very surprised and recalled that ....iirc....Tom had recently mentioned he hadnt noticed much difference in digital cables. Well, this one might change his mind. We then added the carbon fiber icís and it was more of the same... just a very nice improvement in clarity and presentation. I asked Gary to help me move the rack a bit more away from the wall so I could put that 8 gauge solid copper power cord back on the McCormack amp and it produced great results. There is a wonderful synergy with the McCormack and this cord. The bass is much more pronounced, taut and full. Garyís new stranded cord wasnít a match  for the solid copper in this application.

We also tried an amp he lent me, the Pass Aleph 30. This was a final pre-production unit. It was my first time with a solid state class A amp and just reminded me that Iíd had a VAC 90 class A tube amp back around 1990. Anyway, we both enjoyed the sound a lot. It resolved slightly better than the McCormack and had a ďdarkerĒ sound which I wasnít used to.  But I do believe it was a more natural sound. Leonard Cohenís voice had an even more gutteral quality and the sound had a wonderfully organic quality. Now a 30 watt stereo amp with 84 db efficient speakers isnít a great match  as to splís
and it wouldnít do justice to trying to crank it up playing the Stones or some ZZ Top. So Gary took it home, but did mention he has Pass 60 watt monos. Itís tempting for sure and I wonít take a loss on selling the McCormack.

And finally, that pesky Roon/Tidal streaming problem was back today. I was getting at least 30mb, so that wasnít the issue. I will try and assign a static ip though with the help of a fellow AN member who volunteered his services a few days ago



ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline rollo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #121 on: April 16, 2018, 07:30:50 AM »
  Sounds like a fun and educating day. I like carbon/graphine as well for digital. That is what we used exclusively until the dedicated transport and DAC can use Ethernet [ I2S ] connection.
  30W of class "A" is enough to drive those speakers. Lots of headroom in Pass Amps.
Gary how do you terminate the ICs ? Pictures unless your going to sell them.


charles
Home demo.
 contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #122 on: April 16, 2018, 09:32:42 AM »
  Sounds like a fun and educating day. I like carbon/graphine as well for digital. That is what we used exclusively until the dedicated transport and DAC can use Ethernet [ I2S ] connection.
  30W of class "A" is enough to drive those speakers. Lots of headroom in Pass Amps.
Gary how do you terminate the ICs ? Pictures unless your going to sell them.


charles

Charles, 30 watts of class A isnít enough for playing rock 😪
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline doug s.

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #123 on: April 19, 2018, 12:02:21 AM »
nick, sorry, i wasn't ignoring this thread; for some reason i never got notifications of new posts - this thread or any other, either.   :shock:  i just decided to check in to see wazzup.  i hope you're enjoying the ls50's. 

doug s.

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #124 on: April 19, 2018, 12:22:03 AM »
nick, sorry, i wasn't ignoring this thread; for some reason i never got notifications of new posts - this thread or any other, either.   :shock:  i just decided to check in to see wazzup.  i hope you're enjoying the ls50's. 

doug s.

Hi Doug,
Was wondering where youíve been. Enjoy reading your posts. Hope all is well for you. Is the notification issue resolved? I was going to give an update on the LS 50s, so Iíll do that now.
I like these speakers and like them more than the Nolas and my single, full range drivers. They are fun to listen to. But there  are two things that Iíve noticed: the resolution doesnít appear to be quite as good as my old SP Techs and the midrange appears to be slightly veiled. Now the resolution issue Iím pretty sure of, but as to the slightly veiled midrange, Iím not as sure. Itís just more of an impression. Now these are slight issues and I may be all wet, so to speak, but heck, this isnít an exact science.
So part of me wants to get a small sub and maybe talk to Danny about upgrading the crossover as was mentioned on a thread at AC. But....the other part of me wants to try a Philharmonitor BMR or a ?? not sure haha. But I will say the longer this goes on, the less likely Iíll want to spend the money on the new Fritz BE or the Aurum Cantus Vola 3 (I believe thatís the model).
Anyways...thatís my situation right now
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline rollo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #125 on: April 19, 2018, 08:35:53 AM »
  Nick do not forget PSB or Elac. We demonstrated the 20W integrated with 86db speakers playing Joey Bonnamassa and blew the house down at one of the Audiosyndrome meetings. No break up whatsoever.


charles
 
Home demo.
 contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #126 on: April 19, 2018, 09:25:50 AM »
  Nick do not forget PSB or Elac. We demonstrated the 20W integrated with 86db speakers playing Joey Bonnamassa and blew the house down at one of the Audiosyndrome meetings. No break up whatsoever.


charles
 

Charles,
I looked at Elac before, so will do so again. As to the PSB, am not familiar with any of their models. Right now, Iím using my trusty McCormack with very good results. Itís just a different presentation from Garyís class A Pass. Over the years, Iíve probably had more inefficient speakers than not, so going to a small watt amp is more of a risk than Iím willing to take right now.
Are you talking about an Audio Hungary integrated??
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline doug s.

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #127 on: April 19, 2018, 09:30:45 AM »
Hi Doug,
Was wondering where youíve been. Enjoy reading your posts. Hope all is well for you. Is the notification issue resolved? I was going to give an update on the LS 50s, so Iíll do that now.
I like these speakers and like them more than the Nolas and my single, full range drivers. They are fun to listen to. But there  are two things that Iíve noticed: the resolution doesn't appear to be quite as good as my old SP Techs and the midrange appears to be slightly veiled. Now the resolution issue Iím pretty sure of, but as to the slightly veiled midrange, Iím not as sure. Itís just more of an impression. Now these are slight issues and I may be all wet, so to speak, but heck, this isnít an exact science.
So part of me wants to get a small sub and maybe talk to Danny about upgrading the crossover as was mentioned on a thread at AC. But....the other part of me wants to try a Philharmonitor BMR or a ?? not sure haha. But I will say the longer this goes on, the less likely Iíll want to spend the money on the new Fritz BE or the Aurum Cantus Vola 3 (I believe thatís the model).
Anyways...thatís my situation right now
Nick
hi nick,

well, i got notification for this last post, so ya, i guess the problem self-sorted itself out!   :D

i don't think the ls50's are lacking in resolution or veiled anywhere, (sort of the same issue, imo), but they may not be the last word in these areas; ie: while not having done a direct head-to-head comparison, i suspect my piega's might have the edge here.  but, at retail price ~6 time more, i'd hope so, ha!

also, regarding running a sub (or two); w/them, if you were to actively cross over the ls50's so they don't see the lowest octave or two, it's likely that, whatever the resolution is now, it will get better.  and, you may also find they will do better w/less power if actively crossed over to subs.  i am also interested in the ls50 internal x-over mod thing; it seems there may be something to gain there.

regarding something different; i am likely a retailer's worst nightmare!  unless it's something that's a freaking bargain brand-new, i'd never recommend buying anything except used.  the only exception (besides bargain, and maybe even if it's a bargain) is if it's rare on the used market.  example:  the philharmonitors are rare on the sued market, because they're not that well-known, and i think folks have a tendency to hold on to them.  tektons, on the other hand, seem to be a bargain, but patience may actually reward you w/being able to find a used pair.  so, unless you've extensively auditioned something in your own system, and you know it's a long term keeper, i'd be reluctant to be shelling out serious coin for new gear.  but that's me, ever the cheapskate.

doug

Offline rollo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #128 on: April 19, 2018, 09:44:37 AM »
  Nick do not forget PSB or Elac. We demonstrated the 20W integrated with 86db speakers playing Joey Bonnamassa and blew the house down at one of the Audiosyndrome meetings. No break up whatsoever.


charles
 

Charles,
I looked at Elac before, so will do so again. As to the PSB, am not familiar with any of their models. Right now, Iím using my trusty McCormack with very good results. Itís just a different presentation from Garyís class A Pass. Over the years, Iíve probably had more inefficient speakers than not, so going to a small watt amp is more of a risk than Iím willing to take right now.
Are you talking about an Audio Hungary integrated??

  Yes the Audio Hungary was used. The A50i is the 50W version. Not trying to sell you an amp just saying that the 20W class"A" shook the dam house. We used Fritz BE that day.
   You know what your doing no schooling from me just conversation.

charles
 


charles
Home demo.
 contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #129 on: April 19, 2018, 12:36:49 PM »
Hi Doug,
Was wondering where youíve been. Enjoy reading your posts. Hope all is well for you. Is the notification issue resolved? I was going to give an update on the LS 50s, so Iíll do that now.
I like these speakers and like them more than the Nolas and my single, full range drivers. They are fun to listen to. But there  are two things that Iíve noticed: the resolution doesn't appear to be quite as good as my old SP Techs and the midrange appears to be slightly veiled. Now the resolution issue Iím pretty sure of, but as to the slightly veiled midrange, Iím not as sure. Itís just more of an impression. Now these are slight issues and I may be all wet, so to speak, but heck, this isnít an exact science.
So part of me wants to get a small sub and maybe talk to Danny about upgrading the crossover as was mentioned on a thread at AC. But....the other part of me wants to try a Philharmonitor BMR or a ?? not sure haha. But I will say the longer this goes on, the less likely Iíll want to spend the money on the new Fritz BE or the Aurum Cantus Vola 3 (I believe thatís the model).
Anyways...thatís my situation right now
Nick
hi nick,

well, i got notification for this last post, so ya, i guess the problem self-sorted itself out!   :D

i don't think the ls50's are lacking in resolution or veiled anywhere, (sort of the same issue, imo), but they may not be the last word in these areas; ie: while not having done a direct head-to-head comparison, i suspect my piega's might have the edge here.  but, at retail price ~6 time more, i'd hope so, ha!

also, regarding running a sub (or two); w/them, if you were to actively cross over the ls50's so they don't see the lowest octave or two, it's likely that, whatever the resolution is now, it will get better.  and, you may also find they will do better w/less power if actively crossed over to subs.  i am also interested in the ls50 internal x-over mod thing; it seems there may be something to gain there.

regarding something different; i am likely a retailer's worst nightmare!  unless it's something that's a freaking bargain brand-new, i'd never recommend buying anything except used.  the only exception (besides bargain, and maybe even if it's a bargain) is if it's rare on the used market.  example:  the philharmonitors are rare on the sued market, because they're not that well-known, and i think folks have a tendency to hold on to them.  tektons, on the other hand, seem to be a bargain, but patience may actually reward you w/being able to find a used pair.  so, unless you've extensively auditioned something in your own system, and you know it's a long term keeper, i'd be reluctant to be shelling out serious coin for new gear.  but that's me, ever the cheapskate.

doug

Doug,
Being a cheapskate has itís rewards! I did send Danny an email today about the LS 50 crossovers. To me, it might be worth, say, a $300 experiment. Iíd be fine with that. For fun, Iíll keep an eye out on the used speaker market. At least Iím at a point where I can really enjoy these KEFs
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #130 on: April 19, 2018, 12:45:38 PM »
  Nick do not forget PSB or Elac. We demonstrated the 20W integrated with 86db speakers playing Joey Bonnamassa and blew the house down at one of the Audiosyndrome meetings. No break up whatsoever.


charles
 

Charles,
I looked at Elac before, so will do so again. As to the PSB, am not familiar with any of their models. Right now, Iím using my trusty McCormack with very good results. Itís just a different presentation from Garyís class A Pass. Over the years, Iíve probably had more inefficient speakers than not, so going to a small watt amp is more of a risk than Iím willing to take right now.
Are you talking about an Audio Hungary integrated??

  Yes the Audio Hungary was used. The A50i is the 50W version. Not trying to sell you an amp just saying that the 20W class"A" shook the dam house. We used Fritz BE that day.
   You know what your doing no schooling from me just conversation.

charles
 

charles

That must have been wonderful sound!! I have a hunch the Audio Hungary integrated would be a wonderful piece. I never did find prices on the 20i and 50i today, but I vaguely recall they were at least in the 3k and 6k range. An integrated would certainly give me a lot of flexibility. As to affordability, Iíd need to skip a lot of lunches and collect lots of aluminum cans :)
Nick
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 07:57:44 AM by Nick B »
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline gander

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #131 on: April 19, 2018, 08:42:38 PM »
nick, sorry, i wasn't ignoring this thread; for some reason i never got notifications of new posts - this thread or any other, either.   :shock:  i just decided to check in to see wazzup.  i hope you're enjoying the ls50's. 

doug s.

Hi Doug,
Was wondering where you’ve been. Enjoy reading your posts. Hope all is well for you. Is the notification issue resolved? I was going to give an update on the LS 50s, so I’ll do that now.
I like these speakers and like them more than the Nolas and my single, full range drivers. They are fun to listen to. But there  are two things that I’ve noticed: the resolution doesn’t appear to be quite as good as my old SP Techs and the midrange appears to be slightly veiled. Now the resolution issue I’m pretty sure of, but as to the slightly veiled midrange, I’m not as sure. It’s just more of an impression. Now these are slight issues and I may be all wet, so to speak, but heck, this isn’t an exact science.
So part of me wants to get a small sub and maybe talk to Danny about upgrading the crossover as was mentioned on a thread at AC. But....the other part of me wants to try a Philharmonitor BMR or a ?? not sure haha. But I will say the longer this goes on, the less likely I’ll want to spend the money on the new Fritz BE or the Aurum Cantus Vola 3 (I believe that’s the model).
Anyways...that’s my situation right now
Nick

 Nick, I seriously think if you put tiny self stick silicon bumpers on the underside of the speakers and on the platforms like I talked about with you, so that the speakers can’t roll off of the plattforms, and put my rollers under the speakers, your bass and mid range should tighten up and sound more detailed and at least some of that veil will go away. Try it and let me know what happens.  Also instead of using the rollers I gave you, try 1 inch diameter rollers. Those are a little bigger and they may sound better.

Gary
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 08:58:19 PM by gander »
Oppo 103, SSD drive
GanderWire ultra low capacitance power cords; .999 silver ICs and speaker cables
Audio Note 2.1B DAC
Tortuga LDR passive pre
Primaluna Dialogue4 Tube, Temple Audio Bantam SS amp
GW speakers w/Audio Nirvana 12Ē Alnico FR drivers

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #132 on: April 19, 2018, 11:09:21 PM »
nick, sorry, i wasn't ignoring this thread; for some reason i never got notifications of new posts - this thread or any other, either.   :shock:  i just decided to check in to see wazzup.  i hope you're enjoying the ls50's. 

doug s.

Hi Doug,
Was wondering where youíve been. Enjoy reading your posts. Hope all is well for you. Is the notification issue resolved? I was going to give an update on the LS 50s, so Iíll do that now.
I like these speakers and like them more than the Nolas and my single, full range drivers. They are fun to listen to. But there  are two things that Iíve noticed: the resolution doesnít appear to be quite as good as my old SP Techs and the midrange appears to be slightly veiled. Now the resolution issue Iím pretty sure of, but as to the slightly veiled midrange, Iím not as sure. Itís just more of an impression. Now these are slight issues and I may be all wet, so to speak, but heck, this isnít an exact science.
So part of me wants to get a small sub and maybe talk to Danny about upgrading the crossover as was mentioned on a thread at AC. But....the other part of me wants to try a Philharmonitor BMR or a ?? not sure haha. But I will say the longer this goes on, the less likely Iíll want to spend the money on the new Fritz BE or the Aurum Cantus Vola 3 (I believe thatís the model).
Anyways...thatís my situation right now
Nick

 Nick, I seriously think if you put tiny self stick silicon bumpers on the underside of the speakers and on the platforms like I talked about with you, so that the speakers canít roll off of the plattforms, and put my rollers under the speakers, your bass and mid range should tighten up and sound more detailed and at least some of that veil will go away. Try it and let me know what happens.  Also instead of using the rollers I gave you, try 1 inch diameter rollers. Those are a little bigger and they may sound better.

Gary

Ok, Gary, you prodded me to do it without the little bumper stops. I did not do an A/B, just put them in and enjoyed a few hours of great listening. AC grunge was minimal and yes, I turned off the fridge.
I heard a slightly cleaner, tighter presentation and it was very enjoyable. I donít know that I got extra detail, but Iíll mess with the rollers on/rollers off scenario tomorrow night.
Roon was behaving, so it was a great night!
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline rollo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #133 on: April 20, 2018, 07:25:36 AM »
  Another consideration is Mark Audio SOTA designs. Not a dealer.


charles
Home demo.
 contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #134 on: April 20, 2018, 08:04:18 AM »
  Another consideration is Mark Audio SOTA designs. Not a dealer.


charles

Charles,
I tried full range drivers and actually ordered the Mark Audio. Single drivers just didnít work out for me. Now as to the Rethem you like, that may be in another league
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A