Author Topic: Solid State Amps  (Read 11271 times)

Offline mresseguie

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Solid State Amps
« on: July 25, 2017, 12:00:50 AM »
Hi, gang.

I've got some questions regarding SS amplifiers. I don't have a lot of experience with amps, but I'm learning. I started 5 years ago with a Denon AVR 2113ci (?). It sucked. Then, I bought a used Sim Audio 3.1 integrated amp with DAC added. This was a good step up because I could actually hear the improvement in my speakers. An AVA 400R and AVA Synergy 240/3 for HT came next. Once again I heard the SQ improvement. This satisfied me for about 2 years.

For my Taiwan home I bought a Nuprime IDA-8 int. amp/DAC. It's sort of like the /sim Audio. I love this amp for its convenience. It's my travel amp. I may keep it for a while. Last Fall I bought a Nuprime ST-10 amp (150w/ch). This was a step up. I had actually compared it to my 400R and was favorably impressed. I bought the ST-10 because my speakers were Fritz Speakers LS/5-R speakers. They sound great, but are 83.5dB 4 ohm. They need a wee bit of power to sound right. Yeah. I know 150w isn't big enough, but in my small living room, it works.

I've been aching for really good quality floor standing speakers for a couple years. My vagabond lifestyle, dental expenses, my son's college education, and a couple 'surprises' prevented me from buying speakers.....until last month. I bought a pair of Daedalus Audio Apollo speakers. There are three-way 86.5dB 8 ohm puppies that image like crazy. I bought them earlier than I had planned because I got a good deal on Lou's test speakers, which aren't pristine looking, but let's call them an 8.5/10. I either bought them or had to wait 3 months for a new full-priced pair. [Hmm. Think hard, Michael. Save enough to buy a nice amplifier, or pay full price on $14k speakers. - I hesitated for all of 30 seconds.]

The nice amplifier is a Don Sachs KT88 Kootenay 120 tube amp that just happens to match perfectly to my D. Sachs Model 2 preamp. The amp is being assembled now. It ought to be ready in a month or 6 weeks. Both the amp and my Apollos will fly to Taiwan in November. If you're in the neighborhood, we have a guest room with a queen bed.... :thumb:

Now why did I tell you that, and why am I asking about amplifiers? I'll tell you.
When I auditioned the Apollos, I first used my 400R for a solid three hours in order to get a solid feel for the speakers and their strengths (many) and weaknesses (few). Then, we replaced my 400R with Lou's Modwright KWA-150 SE amp and began playing many of the same songs. Well, holy sheeyut! What a huge difference! Yup. I finally REALLY get it. Those expensive amps that I had always referred to as "outrageously expensive" actually make much better music than those 'reasonably' priced amps like the 400R. Consider me educated.

I sold my 400R recently. I'll eventually sell my 240/3 or hand it to my son if he's interested (not very). My wife and I have decided to sell our home in Corvallis, OR and buy a new home in Vancouver, WA. My 87 yr old mother is there and she already had a near-death event 3 months ago that scared the shit out of me. I want to live near enough that I can be there fast if needed, or have a place to come back to if I have to fly back from Taiwan. [Taiwan is our winter home.] I will want to have a nice system in our new home and I know I'll want a really good amplifier. I'm not sure which speakers I'll have, but they likely will be 92dB or higher sensitivity. I'm not interested in buying a new KWA-150 SE or a new PASS xxx, or a new whatever because I don't wish to spend that much on an amplifier. I'l happily buy a used amp. I haven't thought about a preamp yet. Perhaps, I'll get a kickass integrated. Who knows?

So....now that I have heard the KWA-150 SE and appreciate what it does, what other comparable amps are out there that I want to research and eventually audition? I've got over a year before I need to plunk cash down, so I won't get stressed out.

What suggestions have you got for me? Oh, I know. I need to tell you my budget. Um. $4000(?), but cheaper would be nice. Who knows? A year from now I might decide $5k is okay. You know how it goes. Class A, class A/B, Class D are all okay.

If you need more info, I'll be happy to answer. Since I haven't even bought this future home, I can't tell you dimensions or flooring. Just have fun with this. It's a fun hobby. Let's do it!

Thanks!

Michael

P.S. First post of the day!  :rofl:
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 12:03:24 AM by mresseguie »
Daedalus Audio Apollos; Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R
SW1X NOS DAC III BAL/SPL; Holo Spring3 KTE
Don Sachs Model 2 preamp
Don Sachs dual mono 300b; Nuprime Evolution STA
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Offline Hugh

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 06:35:39 AM »
Michael,

I have a combo pair of Bryston BP-25DA & 4BSST which I can let you have for cheap.

Hugh
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Offline TomS

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 06:52:30 AM »
JRiggy has a Wells Audio amp with Lou's speakers and seems to like it a lot. Perhaps he'll weigh in here or just PM him.
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Offline richidoo

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2017, 07:22:07 AM »
The sensitivity is 96.5, not 86.5 dB. Your tube amp will be enough power, imo. But it's a very different sound than SS, especially Modwright.

Seems like you already found the amp you want, get the Modwright!  :thumb:

Your speaker was voiced using the modwright, so it will best deliver Lou's intended result. That may not be your preferred result, but only time will tell. Your initial impression of it was too short to know if you will love it long term.  You already own the tube amp, so I would use that long term, while keeping an eye open for a used Modwright to try. Maybe one that is already in Taiwan. Let Lou know you want his. Everybody upgrades, no amp is perfect. Your price target is about right for a used one.

Another amp of the Modwright sound type (lean and clean) is the Neurochrome Modulus-86 (60W) and Modulus-286 (120W.) I guarantee they are as detailed and incisive as the Modwright or any other amp of any tolopology. They are dry so you can hear classical and other acoustic instrument tone very clearly. You can wet it with the tube preamp or an input transformer to tame highly produced music. They are DIY kits, but you can do it. Instructions are profuse and clear and support is the best in the DIY business. My Mod86 (60W) is almost enough for my 86dB speakers, it would be more than adequate for yours. I have 6 channels of these amps, they are awesome.

A commercial amp I loved hearing a couple years ago is Classe Sigma 200. It is very musical sounding, not lean like NCore, and not fat like DAC cherry.

If you come to NC next year you can hear my friend Sol's I-60 amplifier. :thumb:

Offline Nick B

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2017, 07:26:35 AM »
Hi Michael,
Ah, the quest for a great amp with some muscle 💪... a noble pursuit! I've not had the good fortune of
auditioning many ss amps, but I've been ever so happy with my McCormack DNA 1 Gold mod. It's a stereo amp and Steve ...or Kris .... told me it's puts out about 185, not the advertised and conservatively rated 150. I've had it for 3-4 years. A used DNA goes for about $900 and the mods are probably $2,000. Then there's the beast, the DNA 500. A used 500 goes for about $3,300 or so. Any questions, Steve or Kris will respond. Great customer service!
I've made cable changes the last year and now with the Uber from Dave, the McCormack hasn't missed a beat delivering the extra detail that's been revealed. Musical, dynamic, powerful....a great combo.
I'm hoping guys chime in on the Pass and other brands. Lots of very good stuff out there.
Hmm, a fully paid vacation to Taiwan....that's what you said, right?? 😀
Good luck on your search
Nick
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Offline mresseguie

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2017, 08:25:38 AM »
Oopsies!

Richidoo is correct. My lazy finger struck the "8" instead of the "9" when I typed the Apollos' sensitivity. They are indeed 96.5dB.

McCormack is a name that pops up in forums fairly often, but is one of those amps that I've never actually seen or heard. I'll keep my eyes peeled. Fully paid vacation....oh, sweet....I must have hit the jackpot.  :lol:

Bryston will surely be auditioned. Thanks for the offer, Hugh. I'll remember your offer when the journey begins.

I forgot to say I'd be interested in kit amps, so I'll say it here....Kit amps are interesting options! I'm all thumbs, so I'd definitely need to exercise caution here.

I hadn't realized Jason is a forum member here. Cool. I came THIS close to buying his speakers. Yes, Wells will be added to the list.

Just for clarity:

I'm not seeking to replace my tube amp in Taiwan nor am I seeking a SS amp to power my Apollos in Taiwan. I'm considering a future system in my future home in Vancouver, WA. The speakers for this system could well be used, built from a kit, or ordered from one of the many fine manufacturer direct companies. [Salk, Daedalus, Selah, HumbleHomemadehifi, GR Research, and myriad others are all candidates at this point.] As I get closer to realizing my goals of buying a new home and selecting new (to me) speakers, I will be better able to decide which amp is appropriate. I highly value being able to spent a lot of time researching and auditioning amps to find the one that will keep me satisfied for years to come.

Oh, one other thing in case someone wonders - of course I'll consider tube amps. It's just I want to keep posts in this thread limited to SS only.

Michael
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 08:34:40 AM by mresseguie »
Daedalus Audio Apollos; Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R
SW1X NOS DAC III BAL/SPL; Holo Spring3 KTE
Don Sachs Model 2 preamp
Don Sachs dual mono 300b; Nuprime Evolution STA
Hapa loom
PI Audio UberBUSS, DigiBUSS, Uber-MiniBUS

Offline Bemopti123

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2017, 07:52:47 PM »
Oopsies!

Richidoo is correct. My lazy finger struck the "8" instead of the "9" when I typed the Apollos' sensitivity. They are indeed 96.5dB.

McCormack is a name that pops up in forums fairly often, but is one of those amps that I've never actually seen or heard. I'll keep my eyes peeled. Fully paid vacation....oh, sweet....I must have hit the jackpot.  :lol:

Bryston will surely be auditioned. Thanks for the offer, Hugh. I'll remember your offer when the journey begins.

I forgot to say I'd be interested in kit amps, so I'll say it here....Kit amps are interesting options! I'm all thumbs, so I'd definitely need to exercise caution here.

I hadn't realized Jason is a forum member here. Cool. I came THIS close to buying his speakers. Yes, Wells will be added to the list.

Just for clarity:

I'm not seeking to replace my tube amp in Taiwan nor am I seeking a SS amp to power my Apollos in Taiwan. I'm considering a future system in my future home in Vancouver, WA. The speakers for this system could well be used, built from a kit, or ordered from one of the many fine manufacturer direct companies. [Salk, Daedalus, Selah, HumbleHomemadehifi, GR Research, and myriad others are all candidates at this point.] As I get closer to realizing my goals of buying a new home and selecting new (to me) speakers, I will be better able to decide which amp is appropriate. I highly value being able to spent a lot of time researching and auditioning amps to find the one that will keep me satisfied for years to come.

Oh, one other thing in case someone wonders - of course I'll consider tube amps. It's just I want to keep posts in this thread limited to SS only.

Michael

I am somewhat confused, are you thinking about powering the Apollos with these new SS amplifier?  I do have experience with McCormack amps, I used to have a DNA 225, which output out around 200 watts+ and according to the old Stereophile review, it could even push more than a kilowatt when called upon.

I call the signature of the DNAs and I guess other McCormack amps, exciting.  They used to power a set of Canadian Gershman X-1 along with their companion stand subwoofers SW-1s.  It could make these speakers, whose load was not necessarily easy, effortlessly...but this "excitement" of sound got tired sonically after a while. 

Perhaps it is just a theory but I believe that the best sound of SS amps will be gotten with amps that have sufficient headroom/output in order to drive the amps BUT never over headroom.  This was the case with the McCormacks...the amp had more than ample power but it sort of made the speakers a little too jumpy, uncontrolled. 

In my mom's place in Atlanta, I have a Infinity Kappa 9 which I have refurbish and this speakers, being acoustic suspension which emphasized non compromised low frequencies with 2 12" drivers per channel, with crossovers designed to extract maximum low frequency compromising low ohms at the low frequencies, it is fed by a H20 Henry Ho S250 digital amp which puts out 375 watts/8 ohms and can even push almost 1 kilowatt at 1 ohm when necessary.  For this speaker, this sort of bear amp, be it the H20 or amp like the McCormack DNA 225 would work wonders. 

Strangely enough, in my current on/off system, most of the amps just push out 25 watts or less.   I have been playing with one of the last Fleawatt amp which barely pushes out 5 watts/8 ohm but then the speaker in question presents a very easy load at just 92 db using a 2.5" full range driver in a hybrid horn/TL setup.  It sounds wonderful for what it is But the Kappa 9s with the H2O make a massive wall of sound. 

 :thumb:

Offline mresseguie

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2017, 09:22:08 PM »
Bemopti123,

Hello.

I am not thinking of powering my Apollos with this amp. That system is set and getting ready for take off. I am researching a future system for my (as yet) unpurchased new home. [Yeah. Sounds weird, but we're going to place our current home on the market. Once it sells, we're going to search for a home in or near Vancouver, WA in order to be closer to my aging mother.] This new home may take a year to materialize, but hopefully will be found by Spring of 2018.

I will not wait until we've moved into the new house to begin researching new components, so I am beginning now. Hopefully, I'll have made my decisions prior to moving into the new home.

Michael
Daedalus Audio Apollos; Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R
SW1X NOS DAC III BAL/SPL; Holo Spring3 KTE
Don Sachs Model 2 preamp
Don Sachs dual mono 300b; Nuprime Evolution STA
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Offline Bemopti123

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2017, 09:38:10 PM »
You must decide on what speaker to use and then decide on the appropriate amplifier that will be synergistic either on paper or in reality to match it. 

From your post I can surmise that you have lots of experience with either SS or Tubes.  I keep hearing from people who are into H efficiency and low power SET and also read about people who sold off their low power SET system and went back to SS and low efficiency setup. 

From my experience, I have once had a high power tube amp + mid efficiency bookshelves, the Gershman X-1s back around 2003...it sounded great but somewhat boomy.  Perhaps it was a bad combination of low damping amp + mid efficiency bookshelves...Could not tolerate that boomy sound, although mids were incredible. 

Do you already have a speaker in mind? I remember you are inquiring around in AC etc. 

Offline mresseguie

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2017, 10:26:17 PM »
You are correct that I must first decide on which speaker to buy. I will eventually settle on a pair. However, I've discovered that it is very fun to research speakers, amps, DACs, and preamps. This is my passion now. I visit audio shops in N. America and audio shops in Asia. I audition components whenever possible.

Currently, these are some of the speakers that occupy my list:

Honemadehifi.com Plutone speakers
My Adelphos + subwoofers
Troels Gravesen kits
Salk Exotica monitors
MTM + powered woofers built to order
Three-way special order speakers
Used Daedalus Audio speakers
Used Von Schweikert speakers

There are others but my mind is blank tonight.

That'll have to hold you for now. I'm beat.

Michael
Daedalus Audio Apollos; Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R
SW1X NOS DAC III BAL/SPL; Holo Spring3 KTE
Don Sachs Model 2 preamp
Don Sachs dual mono 300b; Nuprime Evolution STA
Hapa loom
PI Audio UberBUSS, DigiBUSS, Uber-MiniBUS

Offline BobM

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2017, 04:47:29 AM »
If your speakers are as efficient as you mention I am seriously wondering why you want to go SS? I would think tubes would be the perfect match.

Those of us with inefficient speakers are stuck with using high current SS amps (I have a McCormack DNA 500 powering my Apogees), but I only wish I could use tubes. You have that possibility and yet you want SS. Not really sure why.
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Offline mdconnelly

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2017, 06:35:58 AM »
Before I ventured into integrated amps (currently extremely happy with Devialet Expert Pro), I had a DNA-500 driving a pair of Aerial 10T speakers.   I absolutely loved that amp!   It had the muscle to bring those speakers to life and the finesse to make them sing.    I have no regrets getting rid of all the separate components, but that was one amp that I hated to sell.

Offline spm3

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2017, 06:53:57 AM »
Get a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium Integrated ($3300) and upgrade to KT150 tubes ($400) - Total about 4k. If you get the HP (high powered version) with upgraded 8 KT150's, that'll be like 5k.
That's the best tube amp I heard so far at that price range. It is comparable to the Mcintosh tubed equipment (amp and pre-amp) that costs about $11k.
A solid state amp that beats the PrimaLuna is the Mark Levinson NO585 Integrated which costs about 13k. That's the price range I would need to look into to hear a good amount of difference to justify a purchase compared to the PrimaLuna with the KT150's.

Shawn

Offline mresseguie

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2017, 08:13:50 AM »
If your speakers are as efficient as you mention I am seriously wondering why you want to go SS? I would think tubes would be the perfect match.

Those of us with inefficient speakers are stuck with using high current SS amps (I have a McCormack DNA 500 powering my Apogees), but I only wish I could use tubes. You have that possibility and yet you want SS. Not really sure why.

Hi, BobM.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm not ignoring tube amps. The exercise in this thread is to determine what sort of SS amps to research. By picking others' brains, I can discover amps that I might otherwise discard as unfit, or miss entirely due to my ignorance of their existence. I wish to avoid the "buy amp 'A' only to sell it a year later to upgrade to amp 'B' only to... I want to buy an amp that will make me very happy for many years yet won't cost an arm and a leg. If I never hung out on audiophile forums, I would not have to worry so much about upgrade-itis with amps. However, I do hang out on audio forums, and I do read about this or that awesome amp, so, of course, it makes me question whether my amp is good enough. [You may have discovered we Audiophiles tend to do this.]

My best stuff is going to be in my home in Taiwan for a number of reasons. My lifestyle there is quite different from my lifestyle in N. America. I get out less there. I spend much more time in my flat. I listen to more music there. I like that my D Sachs gear is very unique there (bragging rights); Daedalus speakers do exist there, but this will be the first pair of Apollos in Taiwan (more bragging rights). As an 'outsider' audiophile who can chat audiophile lingo in Mandarin, I'm something of a curiosity there. Owning unique and very good sounding gear in Taiwan that no one else owns is fun for me.

More later...
Daedalus Audio Apollos; Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R
SW1X NOS DAC III BAL/SPL; Holo Spring3 KTE
Don Sachs Model 2 preamp
Don Sachs dual mono 300b; Nuprime Evolution STA
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Offline rollo

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Re: Solid State Amps
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2017, 08:16:52 AM »
  If you are in NY after Nov come over for a listen before you make a final decision.  :thumb:


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