Author Topic: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...  (Read 7376 times)

Offline Barry (NJ)

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Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« on: March 19, 2011, 05:35:06 PM »
 :? So, I'm sitting here listening to music and something doesn't sound quite right. Is that some distortion I'm hearing(?) I listen a bit more carefully, I think it is. I get up from my couch and get closer to the speaker. Yup, there is some break-up in the signal. I swap the amp from the surround speakers into the spot I've got for the front speaker amp, and I think the break-up is gone. But I listen some more, and nope, it's still there. So I swap in my spare Audio Alchemy DLC, still get the distortion. Next I try the CD in the Oppo instead of the Sony. Damn, still there. I'm at a total loss here. I'm not listening at high volumes, and this break up is subtle, and it seems to come during peaks. I've also tried the with a couple of different CDs to rule out bad mastering. Anyone got any ideas for me?  :?
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Offline richidoo

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 05:49:33 PM »
Could it be the speakers Barry? Try swapping the speakers cables side to side to see if if changes sides. If it doesn't then suspect the speakers. Don't know what to check on Gallos, but tighten the cable connections at the speakers and amps and check driver mounting screws (if there are any?) Phase plugs can come loose and sound awful when they do. The local dealer demoed a pair of new Aerial 6s, I complained about a distortion on the upper mids, sure enough the midrange driver screws were loose. Same thing with my feastrex phase plugs came loose and rattled around until I finally figured it out.

Could be something in the room rattling too. It's happened to me.

Offline Barry (NJ)

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011, 06:20:31 PM »
Well I just tried the Strada where the 3.5s are and same result. The disc I noticed the the issue the first was "Homogenic" by Bjork and at first I thought it was a badly mastered disc or maybe even intentional, but then I was listening to "Tusk" by Fleetwood Mac and I noticed it again. I'm now listening to "Shepard Moon" by Enya and I'm not hearing it. I wonder if it's these discs that are poorly mastered with peak levels set to high(?) I wonder if there is someway to analyze the track levels to see if that's the issue(?)
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Offline richidoo

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 06:55:09 PM »
Well, that's good that its not the speakers.

It is extremely rare to have digital overs (over modulation) on a big label release. To check, you can rip it to a WAV file, then open the wav with Audacity (free download audio editor), and look at the waveform where you suspect the overs. They will appear as flat tops where the peaks hit the limit and flatten out.

If it were overs you would know it, it is like a SS amp clipping, not subtle. And it also happens only at full scale digital signal. The music you are listening to has decent dynamic range, so overs would only happen at the very top of the dynamic range, at the very loudest peaks.  I'd be surprised if any Fleetwood Mac CD has overs on it. That is the worst kind of amateur mastering mistake.

What kind of distortion is it, what does it sound like? What frequency, mids, highs? Does it correspond to the music, or random?

Sounds like you have replaced everything in the whole chain? Amp, preamp, source, speakers, media. Next check wires, power filter, whatever. If there is a bad connection a microspark on peaks can make bad sounds.

Is there any right / left pan to the distortion sound, or is it centered?

Offline Barry (NJ)

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 07:17:48 PM »
The sound is fairly centered. I just listened to the Bjork disc on my head phones plugged directly into my Sony CD player and the distortion was there, so it's likely the disc and its mastering. I'm somewhat relieved. Listening to Tusk again and I think I may be hearing it again on this disc, but it's far more subtle. The sound is similar to a SS amp clipping, a mid range (1kHz(?)) static that coincides with snare hits, guitar plucks, type sounds. Or similar to the sound of music played to loudly on that little old clock radio ;) But it was subtle and in the background, and I was listening at low volumes, -26dB on the pre. I feel a bit better knowing I heard it via two sources through the system and also direct via one source, I'm now more confident it's just a lousy recording. I'm going to search the web and see if it's been reported before.

Thanks for the responses Rich!
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Offline Barry (NJ)

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 07:32:35 PM »
FWIW, I'm now listening to "Sister of the Moon" on "Tusk", and I can't tell if it's a guitar, a bass, or a piano, and it sounds pretty darn distorted, maybe it's just the sound they were going for  :shock:  :?  :roll:
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Offline mfsoa

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 07:47:07 PM »
So you're saying that after hearing the Cherry in your system, everything else sounds broken  ;)  (sorry couldn't resist)

So it happens on both the Stradas and the 3.5s? 

Can you swap in some of the upstairs gear little by little?

Tried the Threshold?

Offline Barry (NJ)

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 08:09:56 PM »
So you're saying that after hearing the Cherry in your system, everything else sounds broken  ;)  (sorry couldn't resist)

So it happens on both the Stradas and the 3.5s? 

Can you swap in some of the upstairs gear little by little?

Tried the Threshold?


Ha! Yeah the VAC and Cherry did sound sweet! You may have missed it above, but I listened via my Sennheiser HD500s right out of the Sony and heard the same distortions, so I'm no-longer worried about my system being broken. But I have been eying affordable tube pre-amps on A-gon ;)
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Offline richidoo

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2011, 07:26:32 AM »
It could be "effects" on the recording, but it's not digital clipping, not on established artist recordings. All mastering software can check for that with one click. Glad it's not your equipment!

Offline tmazz

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2011, 07:41:39 AM »
Gee Barry, there's a real "Catch-22". You have gotten your system so fine tuned that the distortion added by the artists in the studio for effects now really sounds like distortion.   Ouch! :duh
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Offline rollo

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2011, 08:18:28 AM »
  This scenario could be up for the "Nervosa of the Year" :rofl: award. When is the last time you demagnetized your system ? Cleaned all contacts ? cleaned the laser ? Try the demag first. with all the plugging in and out of gear it builds up. If anything it will sound sooooo much better afterwards.  :thumb:



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Offline Carlman

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2011, 03:09:35 PM »
I know exactly what you're talking about.  It is sometimes poorly mastered recordings and sometimes it's your dac. I find a specific combo of upper mid sounds and oversampling yields a nasty digital hash.

Try a really nice dac and digital cable and see if that changes things. Or maybe you have already. In yhat case it's probably the mastering. I'll take a listen to those discs next time I have a minute to verify. Can you list exact track times?
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline Barry (NJ)

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2011, 04:18:30 PM »
Hi Carl, Though I'm now thoroughly convinced it's the recording, intentional or not. If you've got "Homogenic" by Bjork, on track 4 at about 10 seconds in, this drum(?) beat starts and that drum is the most pronounced I've heard the effect, and many of the sounds on this track have that distortion on them. I'll be bringing this disc to future raves so I can ask the host, "What's wrong with your system?"  :-P


P.S. Track 6 is rampant with the effect. I hadn't gotten this far on the disc before...
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 04:28:34 PM by Barry (NJ) »
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Offline Carlman

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2011, 08:36:09 AM »
haha.  that was fun. I just listened... and am listening now.. That is a grunge effect on a synthesized drum set.  It sounds very intentional.  I could see how oversampling would completely 'blat' on that type of sound.. it sounds right on my system... with a non-os dac.  It's actually a pretty cool sounding CD to me.  Imaging is good, her voice isn't distorted, all the background music is clean.. very experimental and neat-sounding.  I knew the 4th track well... hadn't thought about it in a while.. thanks!

BTW.. Barry, if you want to hear your system well, I would suggest getting the KBCO sessions so you can judge things that were very cleanly recorded in a modern studio with mostly acoustic instruments and straightforward recording process. 

Bjork or Peter Gabriel.. or any of those big studio productions are a mystery as to what's real.

-C
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 08:42:24 AM by Carlman »
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Offline Barry (NJ)

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Re: Thoroughly Bummed & Confused...
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2011, 09:20:44 AM »
Thanks Carl, on further listening it did become aspirant that it was intentional effects on the recording, and the CD is indeed good sounding, but with 15 or so year-old amps, I was nervous that some caps were staring to go and causing these distortions on transients or something.

Is this the KBCO sessions disc you're referring to...

http://www.amazon.com/KBCO-Studio-Performances-Recorded-Live/dp/B000UUDQ3S/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1301933292&sr=8-5

is there a particular session or will any one suffice?

FWIW, I do have some well recorded purely acoustic music in my collection, but it's not my usual fare ;)
Happiness is when your system overcomes your nervosa ;) 
So much media, so little time... My Media Room...