Adventures in Magnetics

[BobM]

OK, so I've had this little experiment on the back burner for about a year now. Recently I picked up an inexpensive bulk tape eraser on e-bay for the purpose of trying out magnetics on my vinyl and CD's to see if anything (yes, ANYTHING) happens. I'm not a believer that anything would, but I am open to the experiment to see for myself.

So, taking Mike fremers contention that he heard a difference on his vinyl when he used the $3000 magnetic record thingie that was advertised last year, I tried it first on some records. first listening to a song or two, then runnign the record over the bulk tape eraser slowly and listening again.

Well, as you might expect I heard no discernable difference on the songs I tried. So ... on to CD's. I first tried a decently recorded  compilation CD and, you guessed it, no difference. So I figured I would try it on some crappily recorded CD's. What's crappier than a 70's live rock album. I pulled out Yessongs and put on eart of the Sunrise. Dense music with a very flat presentation and a lot of congestion when the song gets complicated. Great performance but bad recording. sounded just as expected.

Then I ran the CD over the bulk tape eraser and tried it again. Do my ears deceive me? It has some depth and soundstage now and the congestion is gone. so I tried another dense and less than perfect sounding CD. On to the Best of ZZ Top. Same thing with the before and after. Lets try something that I know is recorded digitally and is over hot - Dave Matthews crash. Yup, a noticeable improvement afterwards. WTF??!!??

So back to the records. Yessongs sounds far better on vinyl with some sense of space to it that the CD totally lacks. No change after the magnetics that I could detect. No change with Sound chaser off of Relayer either.

Back to the CD's and something much better recorded - some Patricia Barber. Now this sounds damn good either way but I'd be lying if I said I really heard an improvement after the magnetic treatment.

So am I going crazy? Can someone please confirm what I am hearing here? Anyone else want to experiment and report back? This seems to be fairly easy to notice on bad recordings, but not on good ones and not on vinyl at all, to my ears and in my rig and in the short time I've tried it. No idea if it lasts for any length of time or if repeated treatments make it better yet.

Thanks for reading through all of this,
Bob

[tmazz]

Bob,

From the point of view of CDs isn't this similar to what the Bedini Clarifier family of products does? The bulk eraser produces a large random magnetic field. The Bedini produces a magnetic field that moves in a specific pattern relative to the disc, but given that the field the disc are moving at the same time it may end they may end up being largely random with respect to one another.

One of the things that I remember from my days as a broadcast engineer was that when we were using the bulk eraser you could never turn off the eraser with the tape near it or it would somehow reorder the magnetics particles on the tape and result in a definite repeating noise on the tape. To use it properly you had to make sure the tape was always moving within the field while it was on and move the tape away from the field before you turned it off. In the case of a hand held unit I would hold it over the tape moving it in a circular motion for about 10 seconds and then while still moving it in circles move it further and further from the tape,not turning it off until it was a good arms legnth away.

When you said that you ran the record over the eraser I picture in my mind that it moved in a straight line over it. This would tend to set up a patterned magnetic charge on the record as opposed to dispersing the charge if you used a circular motion. I'm still not sure if either one would have anything to LP playback, but it might make for an interesting second round to the experiment. I know at one point I had a hand held bulk eraser somewhere in the basement. If I can put my hands on it i will give some of this a try.

BTW, it's been a while since I've seen you at a Syndrome meeting. Our next G2G is the annual day after Thanksgiving meeting @ Jim's house. He is only a short hop from you place, why don't you stop down? PM me if you need details.

Tom

[BobM]

Hey Tom, I would love to hear your results. I just spun the record over the bulk eraser and turned it off. You're right though, I really should pull the record away slowly before I turn it off. I'll have to think about the logistics of that since I have to hold a button down on the bulk eraser at the same time. I did use that method with the CD, but not the record so you may be on to something.

As for Jim's ... well lets just say I've been there and done that too many times. I've gotten really tired of hearing Roy battling it out with someone over "tonality". I would love to hang with some of you guys though. I expect to be at the next NY Audio Rave meeting on the 5th, and if you've never ben to one you really should plan on attending. It's very different from Syndrome meetings (in a good way).

Anyway, please let me know your results. I am definitely impressed with what I found for far less $$$ than a Bendini.

Bob

[rollo]

  Bob you are not crazy. Years ago, when the whole demg thingie was hot, we experimented. We had to put a felt pad o to the part that touches the CD. Go in a circular motion while always in contact with the disc. . We heard a difference but felt not worth the effort.
  There are minute metal particles in the CD so were told . IMO static electricity plays more of a delirious affect. Using an over the counter antistatic spray worked as well. Music was more in focus and a bit more dynamic. Go figure.  
   I would hope to think the products made for audio would do a better job, then again remember " Blue Tac" $5 in the variety store $10 from Music Direct.
     My advice, wash your CDs with soap detergent and air dry. Save your money on Demags and get some new Golf clubs.




charles  

[richidoo]

Acoustic Revive makes a CD demag that works well. I was skeptical until the demoed it to me at RMAF before and after using my own CD. It was a noticeable improvement, I was pretty surprised. The funny thing is it was not an aluminum CD, it was a burned resin CD-R.  All atoms have the same magnetic properties as iron. Iron is able to organize the field, other materials are not. So no mystery that magnetics have an effect on plastic too - at least not for the open minded audiophile....

http://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/rd3/rd3_01.html

AN sponsor Black Sand Audio sells Acoustic Revive.

[shep]

I want a Schumman resonator real bad!  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticrevive/rr77.html

[BobM]

Nope, I'm not crazy. I tried it again this morning and I can hear an improvement on those crappy CD's (still no noticeable change on records though). Ther's a few guys coming over to my place tomorrow to I'll use them as test subjects and see if they hear what I hear. I'll also have to try this with a sel-burned CD and not a stor bought one and see if I can hear a difference.

The Bendini Clarifier works on similar principles, I think. But they say it doesnt last and is only temporary. I wonder if I treat a CD and then burn a new CD from it if I will get the benefits permanently etched into the new CD? Or if it's only inherent on the plysical CD itself and not in the bits and bytes on the disk.

[richidoo]

I want a Schumman resonator real bad!  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticrevive/rr77.html

I've heard that in a system at my local dealer, but not A/B'd on/off. I think there is a thread on AN with people mentioning their experiences about that one.

[shep]

I absolutely love the idea! The primal resonance, canceling out all the bad ones and restoring us to our original in-tuneness. Of all the tweaks I've read about, whether it works or not, it's a beautiful concept. The question is: how does such a small device generate such a low frequency?

[rollo]

Bob just breaking your chops. The Bedini is very affective at what t does. However we found the Mapleshade Ionocast Ion Generator [ $38.50] more affective and its much less expensive. For LPs as well. Uses a piezo ceramic spark generator to deal with static electricity.
   Check out the Phonofile record brush [ 39.95] and nano mount system [ 95.00]. Have you steam cleaned your LPs yet ? You are going to be surprised as to the results. Cleaner than clean. good stuff.
   BTW I have  two MC step trannies for you to try out if you like.



charles

[tmazz]

Is the Mapleshade Ionocast Ion Generator the same thing as the old discwasher Zerostat gun? Sounds like it.

A few years back I picked up an anti-static ion generator from the Japanese company Nagaoka. Does the same basic thing, but it runs on a single C-cell so you don't have to keep pulling the trigger.Been using it to disperse the static on LPs for probably 20 years

[rollo]

Is the Mapleshade Ionocast Ion Generator the same thing as the old discwasher Zerostat gun? Sounds like it.

A few years back I picked up an anti-static ion generator from the Japanese company Nagaoka. Does the same basic thing, but it runs on a single C-cell so you don't have to keep pulling the trigger.Been using it to disperse the static on LPs for probably 20 years

  Close in concept however the Mapleshade is the clearly superior product IMO. Used both.


charles

[Triode Pete]

The ZeroStat produces "Negative Ions" and is somewhat of a slow process... can hear it through my horns when "de-static-ing" an LP on my Well Tempered...

[BobM]

The adventure continues ... Christmas Eve Update

So I played a little more last night, trying something just a little bit different. I thought ... well, if demaging a CD, which is generally non-magnetic, produces a spacial effect akin to opening up the soundstage and separating the instruments so things appear clearer, then what will happen if I actually apply this bulk tape eraser to something that IS magnetic?

So I did. I ran it over the power cords on the CD player and amp and preamp, the speaker cables, and the interconnects. I did this following the natural flow of electricity in each in the normal diurection that things would be travelling in.

Well I won't say it was miraculous and I have no idea if it is a lasting effect or not, but it seemed to produce the same effect as demagging the CD. I got a clearer soundstage with more separation of instruments and a blacker background. All this in a very subtle way though, so I can't swear that this is an absolute effect or not, and obviously I can't go backwards to prove the effect for sure. But in any case it did not change things for the worse.

Perhaps this is something similar to those system demagnifying disks and other stechniques advertised by some tweaky manufacturers. Don't know.

Anyone else want to try this and report back on your findings?

Merry Christmas,
Bob

[rollo]

 Bob you made me take out the bulk thingie. Your not nuts, it does make a slight difference for the good. Compared to the Mapleshade product IMO the bulk eraser comes up short. Actually the most affective has been the Ayre disc and the Gryphon exorcist. Once a month or so works well for me.
  Being an Ayre man now check it out.


charles