AudioNervosa

Systemic Development => Digital Audio Devices => Streaming Players => Topic started by: tmazz on December 07, 2015, 09:32:26 PM

Title: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 07, 2015, 09:32:26 PM
A couple of weeks ago I signed up for a trial subscrition to Tidal. I had been playinng it through my bone stock Squeezebox Touch and while I was really enjoying that musical aspect of Tidal, the sound via the Touch left something to be desired.

So based on some of the comments posted by Evan I decided to give a Bluesound Node unit a try (I bought it through Crutchfield who offer a 60 day return policy, so I figured if I didn't like it  I could send it right back.)

Well in a nutshell the sound difference between the two is night and day and I am enjoying the hell out of the Node and Tidal.

Now I can discover gobs of music right at my fingertips. (Evan, you have nobody to blame but yourself if I start overloading the listeng thread again.  #-o  :lol:)

Details to follow when I get a bit more time to write.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 08, 2015, 12:31:18 AM
Great news Tom

Did you get the new gen 2 Node or the first gen. Make sure you run an external dac. I wasn't crazy about the built in one even though they say it's decent.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 08, 2015, 12:59:23 AM
Check this out

http://www.whathifi.com/news/tidal-to-launch-hi-res-audio-streaming-in-2016?utm_content=buffera1d48&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: jimbones on December 08, 2015, 03:52:00 AM
Tom, remember I get first dibs on the sale of your LPs :rofl:
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Emil on December 08, 2015, 05:11:04 AM
Maybe its time I get my feet wet with computer audio.

Let me understand this:

1) I need a tablet, laptap, phone or some computer device
2) Pay 19.99 a month for a subscription to tidal
3) Purchase this Bluesound thingy
4) Connect the computer with the Bluesound thingy via wifi. Easy?
5) Connect the Blusound to my DAC via a cable

Sound quality better than Redbook CD?
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 08, 2015, 05:29:39 AM
Sounds just as good and you can download 24/192 from HD Tracks to your computer and playback through the Node. It will allow you to build a library
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 08, 2015, 05:31:09 AM
Also you can use other services with the Node but if you have Tidal y would u want to
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: mfsoa on December 08, 2015, 06:57:52 AM
Quote
Well in a nutshell the sound difference between the two is night and day and I am enjoying the hell out of the Node and Tidal.

Does this include use of the Node to play your stored music files, or just "Tidal via Touch" vs. Tidal via Node"?

I'd think that night and day with Tidal would also be night and day with stored files.

As I've said in my system the Touch, as digital source through coax, just doesn't sound as good as a PC w/ USB, into the same dac. So easily a night and day's worth of improvement to be had.

Thanks

Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 08, 2015, 09:35:27 AM
All your stored music files. I also been ripping my cd's to a NAS and retreive them with my Node
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 08, 2015, 10:55:33 AM
Great news Tom

Did you get the new gen 2 Node or the first gen. Make sure you run an external dac. I wasn't crazy about the built in one even though they say it's decent.

I got the first gen model. The only difference I could see between the new and the old is the size and shape of the case and the fact that the Gen 2 has an RCA spdif output as well as a toslink. I did not feel that those two differences were enough to justify the $150 more I would have had to pay for a Gen 2, so I just stuck with the original.

I heard from several sources other than you who all agreed that the internal DAC in the Bluesound products was not bad from a mass market point of view, but did not stand up well against other high end products so I just went straight to running it through my EE DAC without even trying the analog outputs. That will be a project for a rainy day somewhere down the road if for nothing else than curiosity's sake.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 08, 2015, 10:57:16 AM
Check this out

http://www.whathifi.com/news/tidal-to-launch-hi-res-audio-streaming-in-2016?utm_content=buffera1d48&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Very cool. I will be looking forward to this.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 08, 2015, 10:58:53 AM
Tom, remember I get first dibs on the sale of your LPs :rofl:

Jim as much fun as I am having with Tidal, it is still digital. You will still have to pry those LPs from my cold dead hands.  8)
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 08, 2015, 11:27:14 AM
Maybe its time I get my feet wet with computer audio.

Let me understand this:

1) I need a tablet, laptap, phone or some computer device
2) Pay 19.99 a month for a subscription to tidal
3) Purchase this Bluesound thingy
4) Connect the computer with the Bluesound thingy via wifi. Easy?
5) Connect the Blusound to my DAC via a cable

Sound quality better than Redbook CD?

Emil you have a whole bunch of questions there so let me address them one at a time. First off the Bluesound Node is simply a network streaming device. All it does in and of itself is feed audio files from your home network into your stereo system via a WiFi or hardwired Ethernet connection. That can be digital files that you ripped yourself and stored on a hard drive, digital files that you purchased and downloaded to a hard drive via service like HD Tracks or files that you stream in realtime from a cloud service like Tidal.

The box itself has no controls other than a mute button so you need a computer tablet of smartphone to configure and operate it via a free Bluesound app. If you just want to listen to streaming services you can control it from your phone and don't need a computer at all. Of course if you are going to Rip and store files you will need a computer or a NAS drive to store, but that is up to you them on. (I think you might be able to download from HD Tracks directly and store the files on a NAS or USB attached hard drive, but I have not gotten that far into yet so I can't say for sure.

Setup was painless and other than having to update the firmware to recognize Tidal (being an older unit the firmware it shipped with was looking to connect to WIMP in Denmark, which was the original rollout of what we now know in the US as Tidal).

The Bluesound app provides native Tidal support, so unlike the Squeezbox there are no third party plugins to track down and install. (And BTW, Tidal offers a 30 day free trial so you can check it out on your PC and see what they have to offer before committing to signing up or buying any hardware to support it.)

As for the sound, with the painting I have been doing, kids home from college for Thanksgiving and trying to get all the outdoor Christmas decorations up while the temps are still in the 50s I cannot say that I have had a whole lot of sweet spot listening time since installing the Bluesound, but I have had enough to get some pretty strong initial impressions (and of course like everything else I am sure the unit will benefit from some break in time). It is really hard to do a truly valid A-B comparison with a CD because in most cases you never really know exactly what version of a CD that Tidal ripped for their library (with the exception of some specific audiophile pressings that have distinctive markings on their covers). But that said, in the few brief A-Bs I got the chance to do I found that Tidal sounded no worse than a decent CD pressing. Putting in an orginal CD of the same album yielded a small difference that I would categorize as similar to kind of a increase you might get from upgrading a well done CD pressing from the stock aluminum to the gold version. The differences are there if you listen for them, but they are no where near OMG revelations. And in my mind, if I am really concerned about having a high quality sit down sweet spot session, I am heading down the basement to pull out the vinyl copy anyway so not having the ultimate redbook SQ is a small price to pay  for the amount of access I get to all kinds of recording. (It's like having the whole stock of PREX right in the living room with me   :drool: )
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 08, 2015, 11:43:22 AM
Quote
Well in a nutshell the sound difference between the two is night and day and I am enjoying the hell out of the Node and Tidal.

Does this include use of the Node to play your stored music files, or just "Tidal via Touch" vs. Tidal via Node"?

I'd think that night and day with Tidal would also be night and day with stored files.

As I've said in my system the Touch, as digital source through coax, just doesn't sound as good as a PC w/ USB, into the same dac. So easily a night and day's worth of improvement to be had.

Thanks



So far I have only had time to play with Tidal as I need to set up the drive paths to my computer and I have just not gotten to that yet. But when I first set up Tidal through the SB Touch it was not too bad on Pop/Rock, but really fell short SQ wise with classical. I played  a Tidal stream of Ansermet and the Suisse Romande doing Scheherazade and it was just flat lifeless and two dimensional. Exactly the opposite of what I know is in that recording. However the same album streamed through the Node jumps back to life and regains the depth and spaciousness I am used to hearing. No, of course it is not as good as the Japanese Super Analogue LP, but it still puts out credible high end sound.

A few weeks ago I tried ripping a Mannheim Steamroller CD using Itunes to a full lossless file. Played through the main system via the SB Touch I heard the same type of audio shortcomings as I did playing Scheherazade via the SB. So while I have not yet tried playing the steamroller via the Node, I assume it will exhibit the same  kids of improvement I heard when moving Tidal to the Node. Time will tell. I will fill you guys in when I get a chance to listen to it again in the new configuration. But hey, the SB was  a mass market product and was never marketed as a high end solution, whereas Bluesound is a division of NAD, a company that had been focused on good sound for the dollar for many years now.

I am sure that there are better sounding network players out there (with of course, bigger price tags  :roll:), but at $349 with a 60 day money back guarantee through Crutchfield, I think the Node represents a great way to get into the world of streaming and computer audio without risking buck bucks to do so.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 08, 2015, 11:54:45 AM
And just for those who are interested the Node is the entry level model in the Bluesound family, not really in terms of sound, but in terms of speakers.

They all pretty much build off of the Node base and add other feature. One model is the same as the Node, but also includes a small power amp so that you can hook a pair of speaker directly to the Node without needing any other electronics. Anther packages the node in the same chassis as a self powered speaker to make a one box countertop music system. And the top of the line model adds an optical drive and a 2Tb hard drive to make a complete stand alone music server that can handle all jobs from ripping right through playback, all withing the same unit.

More details can be found here:

http://www.bluesound.com/en-us/products/node/

Note: although the web site still shows the price of the Node as $499, now that the Node 2 has shipped great deals can be had on the original version.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 08, 2015, 12:45:05 PM
Great explanation Tom. I responded while working so  my explanation was brief. I have been a Tidal member since it rolled out last November and I will say that in my sweet spot it is just as good as CD. Imaging and soundstage is on par with my cd's
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 08, 2015, 01:35:16 PM
Great explanation Tom. I responded while working so  my explanation was brief. I have been a Tidal member since it rolled out last November and I will say that in my sweet spot it is just as good as CD. Imaging and soundstage is on par with my cd's

Hey it very well could be hat the reason it sounded like the difference between two different good CD versions is because the Tidal rip is of a different CD version than what I compared it to. And while I did hear some differences they were small in nature.

And also the Tidal is connected to the DAC via an optical cable while the CD payer is via coax, so there is another variable. And I am using a generic optical cable I had laying around and need to work on getting a better one.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 08, 2015, 02:15:40 PM
Great explanation Tom. I responded while working so  my explanation was brief. I have been a Tidal member since it rolled out last November and I will say that in my sweet spot it is just as good as CD. Imaging and soundstage is on par with my cd's


And also the Tidal is connected to the DAC via an optical cable while the CD payer is via coax, so there is another variable. And I am using a generic optical cable I had laying around and need to work on getting a better one.

I'm using a Blue Jeans cable optical. I could not get 24/192 to play out of the Node until......

I bought one of these and it solved all my problems. I connect straight to my dac now via my coax connection .


http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOSlink-to-COAX-Coaxial-Digital-Audio-Cable-Converter-24bit-192K-sampling-rate-/370695549213?hash=item564f2d311d

Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: sleepyguy24 on December 08, 2015, 06:32:36 PM
If any of you guys on Long Island need one of these Toslink to Coax converters I have one that I'm not using I can lend you.

Also for Toslink I use this cable. I preferred it over the grey Monoprice one I had.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-6-ft-GLASS-TOSLINK-DIGITAL-OPTICAL-CABLE-Premium-/390469819849?hash=item5ae9d09dc9:g:Gw4AAOxy3zNSe9gc
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: jimbones on December 09, 2015, 05:17:11 AM
Tom,  Coax is soooooo much better than toslink. I'm not sying it's worth $150 more, but it is significantly better.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Emil on December 26, 2015, 01:42:19 PM
Tom
Thanks, but a couple more questions if you don't mind.

1) What does the server actually do? Why cant I just connect my laptop with Tidal installed and connect to my dac?

2) What do you get with more expensive servers compared to the Node 2?

Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 26, 2015, 06:37:46 PM
Tom
Thanks, but a couple more questions if you don't mind.

1) What does the server actually do? Why cant I just connect my laptop with Tidal installed and connect to my dac?

2) What do you get with more expensive servers compared to the Node 2?



The Node is not a server in and of itself. It is simply an interface between your home network (including the Internet) and your stereo system. Your can do the exact same thing with a laptop, but that would involve either a) dedicating a laptop to the stereo or b) hook up and unhooking a laptop to the stereo every time you want to use it.  It can play files from another computer or network drive or hook directly to a number of internet music service like Tidal and inTune via embedded software (but interestingly it does not come with software to play Pandora, which surprised me, but since I am using Tidal now was not a problem for me.

It is also a lot more visually pleasing as compared to having a laptop open on a shelf if your system is located in a shared space like a living room, although this would not be as much of an issue if you have a dedicated audio space that is out of sight from your significant other. But I do have to say that I like using my iPad to control the Node, because I can easily take it back to my seat or to any other place i the house , whereas a the location of a laptop would have to be fixed because of the physical connection it has to make to your DAC.

I spoke to the Blue sound folks and they told me there were three basic differences between the Node and the Node 2. First is the physical case. The Node is pretty much a cube that sits on a 45 degree angle so one of the corners points forward towards the viewer. As such it is narrower sided to side, but higher than the equipment we are sued to seeing as ans such caused problems to some folks when trying to fit it into a rack. The node2 is a lower profile rectangular case that is proportioned more like typical audio gear and as such is easier to place. Depending on where you keep your equipment, this may or may not be a problem for you. I have a rack with movable shelves and was able to position them such that everything fit, but I can see where people who have racks with fixed shelves cold have a problem with the original Node.

Second the Node2 added the ability to interface advice like an iPhone wirelessly via Bluetooth. I have no idea how this would compare with the SQ of a WiFi or wired Ethernet connection, but since I don't use my phone as a music player, the feature does not concern me.

Last and probably the difference that would be of most interest to us as audiophiles is that the digital out put of the Node is only via a Toslink optical connection whereas the Node2 has added a RCA based spdif connection.

The rep at Bluesound also said that the Node 2 has a faster processor but that they did not fell that this lead to any significant difference in SQ. He also said that aside from what some people may consider a difference in SQ between Toslink and spdif connections there is not SQ difference between the two units.

I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: hogg on December 26, 2015, 08:00:11 PM
Why not use a Chromecast Audio instead?  This is what I use on my PC casting Tidal.  The sound is quite good.

                               Jim
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 26, 2015, 08:38:56 PM
Why not use a Chromecast Audio instead?  This is what I use on my PC casting Tidal.  The sound is quite good.

                               Jim

From a technical standpoint you absolutely could.

I choose not to because a) right now I do not happen to have a spare computer or laptop to use and b) Since my setup is now in the living room I would rather not have a computer hooked up to it permanently for aesthetic reasons. The Node is a small unit that needs no keyboard, mouse or monitor to operate it.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 27, 2015, 01:13:41 AM
And the BluOs system is expandable similar to Sonos with wireless speakers.

And best of all no dropouts
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Werd on December 27, 2015, 04:43:16 AM
O I get it, you just want it to look fancy.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Werd on December 27, 2015, 04:47:27 AM
Why you want it to look so fancy?
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 27, 2015, 05:36:36 AM
Because we can
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 27, 2015, 06:47:56 AM
Why you want it to look so fancy?

Easy, WAF.  8)

Since my system is now in the living room, it is a bit more important how it looks as compared to when it was in a dedicated space that pretty much nobody saw except me, or somebody else who came into that room expressly to listen to music.

Another factor was that I did not have a spare computer of laptop to dedicate to the audio system and the Node unit cost me less than what I would have needed to pay  for a computer. So it was the right move for me from a number of standpoints.

But certainly from a purely functional standpoint there is nothing you can do with the Node that can't be done with a computer if you choose to go that way.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 27, 2015, 07:32:00 AM
And no dropouts
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: mfsoa on December 27, 2015, 12:26:55 PM
I was considering the Node2 as a SBox Touch replacement but since setting up a Rapsberry Pi I am more than satisfied.

For ~ $70 you get a very good quality digital transport (USB; Coax and toslink a little more $) that acts just like any one of my many current SB devices.

It looks cute in its tiny black case but that doesn't matter because it lives completely hidden behind another piece of gear. And I felt that I leaned something in the set-up process which is a bonus.

Highly recommended to anyone looking to establish, replace or expand their squeezebox empire.

-Mike

Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 27, 2015, 12:52:33 PM
I was considering the Node2 as a SBox Touch replacement but since setting up a Rapsberry Pi I am more than satisfied.

For ~ $70 you get a very good quality digital transport (USB; Coax and toslink a little more $) that acts just like any one of my many current SB devices.

It looks cute in its tiny black case but that doesn't matter because it lives completely hidden behind another piece of gear. And I felt that I leaned something in the set-up process which is a bonus.

Highly recommended to anyone looking to establish, replace or expand their squeezebox empire.

-Mike



Mike
Any stuttering or dropouts ?


Did I say no dropouts ?
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: mfsoa on December 27, 2015, 01:23:42 PM
No not one stutter or dropout.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: mfsoa on December 27, 2015, 02:42:27 PM
Just figured out the settings for 1X and 2X DSD and they both work w/ no issues, so far.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Emil on December 27, 2015, 02:49:02 PM
Ok, so I signed onto Tidal and connected my laptop to my Lampizator via USB cable. Same cable I used to connect my printer to my computer.
CD quality? Not quite. I'm thinking its the USB cable. Do you think substituting with a quality USB cable will do it or is USB inherently inferior to an RCA/SPDIF cable?
What about the server? Does the Node add something that that laptop alone is missing?

No stutter or dropouts so far, EJK
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: mfsoa on December 27, 2015, 03:01:31 PM
Evan,
Have you listened to a cd that's been ripped to your laptop using a good (dbpoweremp etc.) ripper and player (jriver etc.)?  It could be that the quality of the usb out from the computer is not very good, as opposed to the quality of the Tidal stream. The computer audiophile crowd claims that there are some real nasty electrical goodies that can come from a computer's USB port.

How do you feed the Lamp usually?

Doubt if a USB cable will make a huge difference but it might help some.

-Mike



Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Emil on December 27, 2015, 04:08:35 PM
Heu Mike

No ripping for me. I'm still a silver disc man myself. I use an RCA/SPDIF cable to feed the Lamp from my transport.

I figured Tidal was an easy way to ease into it but there are still some things to get ironed out as you can see so maybe using the Node as an interface with the Lamp using RCA cable is the way to go.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: richidoo on December 27, 2015, 04:40:07 PM
Emil, you subscribed to the hi-rez version of tidal, right? They also have a 300kbps version.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: mfsoa on December 27, 2015, 04:57:31 PM
Emil,

If you have a computer hooked up to a network, you can easily run Logitech Media Server (LMS) on the computer and then connect a Raspberry Pi via wireless or ethernet.  Then , the Pi, running any number of popular media players (I use piCoreplayer at the moment) will feed your Lampi with yummy music bits via USB (or coax and toslink if you add a $50 card to the Pi). The Pi will appear as a squeezebox when you run LMS.

This can all be controlled from the computer running LMS or from a tablet or phone.

This is just one of many ways to use a Pi.

Not bad for the $.

I'd guess that the node2 is a more set and forget piece - The software on the Pi is extremely configurable when it comes to upsampling/filters etc.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Emil on December 27, 2015, 04:58:01 PM
Emil, you subscribed to the hi-rez version of tidal, right? They also have a 300kbps version.

yes I did
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 27, 2015, 07:14:12 PM
Ok, so I signed onto Tidal and connected my laptop to my Lampizator via USB cable. Same cable I used to connect my printer to my computer.
CD quality? Not quite. I'm thinking its the USB cable. Do you think substituting with a quality USB cable will do it or is USB inherently inferior to an RCA/SPDIF cable?
What about the server? Does the Node add something that that laptop alone is missing?

No stutter or dropouts so far, EJK

I have done some direct A/B comparisons of Tidal vs my own copy of a particular CD and the native CD was better, but not by much. I don't think I would have noticed the difference between them without the A/B comparison. The difference is along the order of what you lose when you copy a CD, which whenyou think about it, isn't that what Tidal is doing, copying CDs to thier servers?

I will say it is not a completely equal comparison since the Node is connected via a Toslink port vs  a spdif connection between the CD transport and the DAC, but from my point of view it represents exactly how I will be listening so whether the difference is due to Tidal or the interface difference does not matter to me right now.

But as I have said in the past, the difference is small and in my mind a worth while tradeoff to get access to the Tidal music library. And anything that I like that much and am really concerned bout having the ultimate SQ from I will buy the CD, or even better the LP if I can find one. Keep in mind that I am looking at Tidal as a way to supplement and expand my music collection, not as a replacement for playing other formats.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on December 28, 2015, 12:49:17 AM
See this is what I mean. Try this , try that . Just get a Node and be done with it :rofl:
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Emil on December 28, 2015, 04:39:47 AM
Emil,

If you have a computer hooked up to a network, you can easily run Logitech Media Server (LMS) on the computer and then connect a Raspberry Pi via wireless or ethernet.  Then , the Pi, running any number of popular media players (I use piCoreplayer at the moment) will feed your Lampi with yummy music bits via USB (or coax and toslink if you add a $50 card to the Pi). The Pi will appear as a squeezebox when you run LMS.

This can all be controlled from the computer running LMS or from a tablet or phone.

This is just one of many ways to use a Pi.

Not bad for the $.

I'd guess that the node2 is a more set and forget piece - The software on the Pi is extremely configurable when it comes to upsampling/filters etc.


Thanks Mike for the help but I have no idea you just said :lol:

The set and forget Node is more my speed
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 28, 2015, 04:50:17 AM
I was considering the Node2 as a SBox Touch replacement but since setting up a Rapsberry Pi I am more than satisfied.

For ~ $70 you get a very good quality digital transport (USB; Coax and toslink a little more $) that acts just like any one of my many current SB devices.

It looks cute in its tiny black case but that doesn't matter because it lives completely hidden behind another piece of gear. And I felt that I leaned something in the set-up process which is a bonus.

Highly recommended to anyone looking to establish, replace or expand their squeezebox empire.

-Mike



Did you notice an increase in SQ when you switched over to the Pi? I was running a bone stock SB Touch and was very unimpressed with Tidal when played through it. I got much better SQ with the Node. Prior to signing up for Tidal I used the Touch almost exclusively for streaming Pandora, which has limited SQ to start with so I never really bothered  to do anything to tweak it for better sound.

Of course the other nice thing about the Node is that it is pretty much a plug and play, set it and forget it device. All I needed to do to get t running was to give it my home network SSID & Password, download the Bluesound app to my iPad and associate it with my player and it was off to the races. Everything is all set up for you and it updates itself automatically whenever there are software updates.

A few years ago I would have been all over this Raspberry Pi thing. But as busy as life has gotten lately I have little enough time to spend on audio, I would much rather spend that time playing music as opposed to playing with equipment. But that's just me and where I am at right now. I have certainly been on the other side of the fence and can understand why someone would want to, and enjoy building and optimizing a computer based system on their own.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 28, 2015, 05:07:17 AM
Emil,

If you have a computer hooked up to a network, you can easily run Logitech Media Server (LMS) on the computer and then connect a Raspberry Pi via wireless or ethernet.  Then , the Pi, running any number of popular media players (I use piCoreplayer at the moment) will feed your Lampi with yummy music bits via USB (or coax and toslink if you add a $50 card to the Pi). The Pi will appear as a squeezebox when you run LMS.

This can all be controlled from the computer running LMS or from a tablet or phone.

This is just one of many ways to use a Pi.

Not bad for the $.

I'd guess that the node2 is a more set and forget piece - The software on the Pi is extremely configurable when it comes to upsampling/filters etc.


Thanks Mike for the help but I have no idea you just said :lol:

The set and forget Node is more my speed

The Raspberry Pi is a miniature computer about the size of a deck of cards that can be configured to do all kinds of multimedia things.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/458478/Raspberry_Pi_2_Model_B_Media_Center

So what Mike did was basically build a computer from scratch and used it at a replacement for his Squeezebox touch. Now this is easy and not a bad idea if you already have a squezezbox system in place and have a significant amount of time invested in setting it up and maintaining it over the years. But if you were starting from scratch you would not only need to  build and configure the Pi, but you would also need to install and configure the Logictec Media System software on another PC , set all of that up and associate everything together. And some people have the knowledge required enjoy doing that kind of stuff, and that's OK...... or you could buy a Node and have it set up and running in 30 mins or less. Neither way is better, it's just a matter of what floats your boat.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: jimbones on December 28, 2015, 07:11:43 AM
Ok, so I signed onto Tidal and connected my laptop to my Lampizator via USB cable. Same cable I used to connect my printer to my computer.
CD quality? Not quite. I'm thinking its the USB cable. Do you think substituting with a quality USB cable will do it or is USB inherently inferior to an RCA/SPDIF cable?
What about the server? Does the Node add something that that laptop alone is missing?

No stutter or dropouts so far, EJK

Emil,

Answer to your question on the USB cable is Yes!!. I did not believe it myself but I demoed a USB cable from Ultra-Fi in my system and it was a HUGE difference. I purchased one. I really came to appreciate how much difference it made was when I removed it from my system and went back to a cheapie cable I could not even listen to my system so I limited my sessions to Vinyl only until I got my cable back. I had similar results with a good SPDIF cable from ELCO.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: mfsoa on December 28, 2015, 08:01:00 AM
tmazz-
I'm in a funny situation regarding Tidal sound quality on the Touch vs. the Pi - As I mentioned in another thread I found that USB from my laptop sounded way better than the digital coax out from my Touch, which is what prompted me to try the Pi. Sure enough the optical out from the Pi sounds fabulous -right up there w/ the PC, easily. But I get no sound at all from the Pi via coax digital even though folks in the know say that if the optical works, the coax should too. Therefore based on these observations I'm thinking that there is something peculiar with the way the coax input in my Marantz SA8005 is interacting w/ the coax feeds I've been giving it. I even hooked the Touch back up to compare coax vs. toslink and the toslink won by a mile. Sorry for the long story but that's the reason I can't really comment on Tidal SQ - I only heard it through the compromised (for some reason) coax input of my dac .

I'd hardly give myself credit for "building a computer from scratch" as all I did was snap a plastic case on it  :rofl:.  I know absolutely nothing about Linux and was up and running in no time using one of the many ready-to-load music player packages out there.

Quote
See this is what I mean. Try this , try that . Just get a Node and be done with it ROFLMAO
With capability come some complexity (and big $ savings). Driving to the park is harder than driving across the street, but look, now you're at the park! Whatever floats yer boat  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Emil on December 28, 2015, 08:01:47 AM
Ok, so I signed onto Tidal and connected my laptop to my Lampizator via USB cable. Same cable I used to connect my printer to my computer.
CD quality? Not quite. I'm thinking its the USB cable. Do you think substituting with a quality USB cable will do it or is USB inherently inferior to an RCA/SPDIF cable?
What about the server? Does the Node add something that that laptop alone is missing?

No stutter or dropouts so far, EJK

Emil,

Answer to your question on the USB cable is Yes!!. I did not believe it myself but I demoed a USB cable from Ultra-Fi in my system and it was a HUGE difference. I purchased one. I really came to appreciate how much difference it made was when I removed it from my system and went back to a cheapie cable I could not even listen to my system so I limited my sessions to Vinyl only until I got my cable back. I had similar results with a good SPDIF cable from ELCO.

Thanks Jim
If I use a USB, its going to be a long one ( 10 ft) and of course expensive so that is out. I'm going to have to rely on a wireless connection between my laptop and Node. I'm sure hard wiring is the the best way but do you lose much going wireless?

Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: richidoo on December 28, 2015, 08:13:30 AM
There are many linux distributions for audio which don't require a separate server like the Squeezebox model. Volumio is one that is very easy to install and use. Voyage MPD, Audiophile Linux, Deadbeef, HiFiBerry, Raspbian, RuneAudio and many more. These all run on "embedded hosts" which means tiny, inexpensive computer.

There are also daughterboards (called "capes") which expand the functionality of the host. For Raspberry Pi there are DAC boards that plug into the host to make a complete, self contained unit with file server/library management, client player/network remote control, and I2S DAC. It's like a DIY Sonos with better construction and sound quality than Sonos and the freedom to customize apps, filters or whatever, for about half the price of Sonos. Expandable and changable whenever a new OS, host or cape comes out.
IQ AUdio (http://www.iqaudio.co.uk/), or RPi-DAC (http://www.tjaekel.com/T-DAC/raspi.html)

I like the driving to the park analogy Mike. Most SB users have had their fair share of struggle over the years, often with no good fix available. There are solutions to every imaginable issue in the linux world and many friendly people committed to growing the linux community who are happy to help. With hardware cheaper than dirt it is starting to bloom now. I think Linux will go mainstream in a couple years when people get tired of Microsoft and Apple crap and when a visionary can market Linux to the normal, non-geek youths. If someone made a linux OS that ran on iphone that could ignite it if they could penetrate the media defense of status quo.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 28, 2015, 09:28:25 AM
Ok, so I signed onto Tidal and connected my laptop to my Lampizator via USB cable. Same cable I used to connect my printer to my computer.
CD quality? Not quite. I'm thinking its the USB cable. Do you think substituting with a quality USB cable will do it or is USB inherently inferior to an RCA/SPDIF cable?
What about the server? Does the Node add something that that laptop alone is missing?

No stutter or dropouts so far, EJK

Emil,

Answer to your question on the USB cable is Yes!!. I did not believe it myself but I demoed a USB cable from Ultra-Fi in my system and it was a HUGE difference. I purchased one. I really came to appreciate how much difference it made was when I removed it from my system and went back to a cheapie cable I could not even listen to my system so I limited my sessions to Vinyl only until I got my cable back. I had similar results with a good SPDIF cable from ELCO.

Thanks Jim
If I use a USB, its going to be a long one ( 10 ft) and of course expensive so that is out. I'm going to have to rely on a wireless connection between my laptop and Node. I'm sure hard wiring is the the best way but do you lose much going wireless?



If you use the Node you will not need at cable from the laptop to the Node. The Node will stream Tidal directly from your router. The laptop could be used to operate the node, but would only be sending control signals back an forth to it over your home network. The actual music signals from Tidal would come directly from the internet to the Node via your router. The node can connect to your router wirelessly or via a hardwired Ethernet connect. But Ethernet cables are relatively cheap (under $20 for a 25 ft cable at MicroCenter)

The Node to DAC connections are limited toslink optical only on the original Node and to a choice of toslink or spdif coax on the Node2. Neither has the option of connecting to a USB DAC.

As for any SQ difference between the wireless or wired network connection, I do not have an Ethernet cable on hand that is long enough to reach my router from where the Node sits, so I have not been able to do any direct comparisons, But it is an exercise that is on my to do list. That said, the wireless connection has been working just fine for me and I have not had any problems or reason to make me think I need to move to a hardwired connection. But it will be easy enough to test once I get my hands on a cable, and who knows, it just might sound better, so it's worth a try. I'll let you know what I find out.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on December 28, 2015, 09:51:23 AM
tmazz-
I'm in a funny situation regarding Tidal sound quality on the Touch vs. the Pi - As I mentioned in another thread I found that USB from my laptop sounded way better than the digital coax out from my Touch, which is what prompted me to try the Pi. Sure enough the optical out from the Pi sounds fabulous -right up there w/ the PC, easily. But I get no sound at all from the Pi via coax digital even though folks in the know say that if the optical works, the coax should too. Therefore based on these observations I'm thinking that there is something peculiar with the way the coax input in my Marantz SA8005 is interacting w/ the coax feeds I've been giving it. I even hooked the Touch back up to compare coax vs. toslink and the toslink won by a mile. Sorry for the long story but that's the reason I can't really comment on Tidal SQ - I only heard it through the compromised (for some reason) coax input of my dac .

I'd hardly give myself credit for "building a computer from scratch" as all I did was snap a plastic case on it  :rofl:.  I know absolutely nothing about Linux and was up and running in no time using one of the many ready-to-load music player packages out there.

Quote
See this is what I mean. Try this , try that . Just get a Node and be done with it ROFLMAO
With capability come some complexity (and big $ savings). Driving to the park is harder than driving across the street, but look, now you're at the park! Whatever floats yer boat  :thumb:


When I got the Touch I compared the optical vs coax connections to my EE DAC and did not hear a significant difference. (Again that was playing Pandora, So I don't know if I would have heard a bigger difference with better source material.) But I did hear a huge difference in SQ between playing Tidal through the Touch and the Node. (And BTW I heard the same kind of sound degradation when I compared a lossless file I ripped to the original CD) This leads me to think that the digital technology in the touch has been surpassed by more modern digital circuitry, whether it be in the Node or the Pi.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: jimbones on December 28, 2015, 11:50:04 AM
Ohhhhhh, OK so the cable I have in 10 ft would be about $50K Lol!!  :rofl: No cable is better and cheaper.

Ok, so I signed onto Tidal and connected my laptop to my Lampizator via USB cable. Same cable I used to connect my printer to my computer.
CD quality? Not quite. I'm thinking its the USB cable. Do you think substituting with a quality USB cable will do it or is USB inherently inferior to an RCA/SPDIF cable?
What about the server? Does the Node add something that that laptop alone is missing?

No stutter or dropouts so far, EJK

Emil,

Answer to your question on the USB cable is Yes!!. I did not believe it myself but I demoed a USB cable from Ultra-Fi in my system and it was a HUGE difference. I purchased one. I really came to appreciate how much difference it made was when I removed it from my system and went back to a cheapie cable I could not even listen to my system so I limited my sessions to Vinyl only until I got my cable back. I had similar results with a good SPDIF cable from ELCO.

Thanks Jim
If I use a USB, its going to be a long one ( 10 ft) and of course expensive so that is out. I'm going to have to rely on a wireless connection between my laptop and Node. I'm sure hard wiring is the the best way but do you lose much going wireless?


Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: mfsoa on December 28, 2015, 03:31:41 PM
Been reading up about the Curious USB cable and if half of what's said about it is true then yes, it can significantly affect the sound of your system.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on January 31, 2016, 11:33:30 PM
Emil what was the outcome on this . What did you end up with ?
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Emil on February 01, 2016, 04:21:42 AM
Emil what was the outcome on this . What did you end up with ?

Its on the back burner for now
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on February 01, 2016, 09:32:40 AM
I upgraded the generic optical cable I was using between the Node and my DAC with a Toslink cable from Analysis Plus and am quite pleased with the results.

More details here:

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=5875.msg75244;topicseen#msg75244
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Nick B on February 02, 2016, 05:28:44 PM
My SB2 is behaving most of the time and if it gives me some grief, I can usually get it to work pretty quick. My concern with the Node is the ripping and tagging as I have some off the grid CDs. Any updated comments on ripping and tagging?
Nick
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on February 02, 2016, 08:59:05 PM
The Node is nothing but a streaming interface into your system Takes a signal form either the internet (Tidal or the like) or files from a hard drive somewhere on your home network and interfaces them via either a WiFi or Ethernet connection digitally to your DAC or on an analog basis to your audio system using it's own internal DAC. Any ripping and tagging need to be done via your computer using the software of your choice and this operation is totally independent of the Node.

Bluesound also makes another unit called the vault which contains and optical reader and a 1TB hard drive. The vault is a plug and play music server and does all of the ripping and tagging automatically for you. Unfortunately I have no first hand experience with the Vault.

However, I bought the Node from Crutchfield, and they have a guy on there tech support staff who is a Bluesound expert (I think he said he owned a vault himself). I am sure if you give them a call and say you have some pre-sale technical questions they will connect you to him. They couldn't have been more helpful when I spoke with them.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Nick B on February 02, 2016, 10:17:17 PM
Thanks. I forgot about the difference between the Node and the Vault. I'll call Crutchfield as the Vegas dealer I spoke with some months ago was not very helpful. I assume you feel the smps does a nice enough job. That is a bit of a concern for me
Nick
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on February 03, 2016, 01:09:52 AM
I upgraded the generic optical cable I was using between the Node and my DAC with a Toslink cable from Analysis Plus and am quite pleased with the results.

More details here:

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=5875.msg75244;topicseen#msg75244

Have you tried 24/192 with this cable
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Nick B on February 03, 2016, 07:11:41 AM
I upgraded the generic optical cable I was using between the Node and my DAC with a Toslink cable from Analysis Plus and am quite pleased with the results.

More details here:

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=5875.msg75244;topicseen#msg75244

Have you tried 24/192 with this cable


Unfortunately, I don't have any 24/192 material. I've only heard a direct a/b comparison and the highs were much better.
Nick
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on February 03, 2016, 07:43:46 AM
I upgraded the generic optical cable I was using between the Node and my DAC with a Toslink cable from Analysis Plus and am quite pleased with the results.

More details here:

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=5875.msg75244;topicseen#msg75244

Have you tried 24/192 with this cable


Unfortunately, I don't have any 24/192 material. I've only heard a direct a/b comparison and the highs were much better.
Nick

That was directed at Tom
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Nick B on February 03, 2016, 11:29:10 AM
OK, I'll be curious as to his response
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on February 03, 2016, 04:54:17 PM
I only have 24/96 files, but they sounded great.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: mfsoa on February 03, 2016, 06:00:42 PM
Its not a Node but I have no probs w/ 24/192 using optical from a Raspberry Pi to my Marantz SA8005. But the coax does sound a bit better.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: ejk on February 03, 2016, 10:51:30 PM
Its not a Node but I have no probs w/ 24/192 using optical from a Raspberry Pi to my Marantz SA8005. But the coax does sound a bit better.

I guess the Lifatec cable works in your situation. Optical is iffy when it comes to 24/192 and finding the right cable to pass it is time consuming.

Here is an interesting thread

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/toslink-cable-does-not-192khz-25489/
Title: Re: Bluesound Node/ MQA JUNE 1
Post by: ejk on May 14, 2016, 07:10:11 AM
MQA coming to Bluesound June 1

http://www.bluesound.com/en-us/news-en-us/2016/bluesound-and-mqa-bring-the-studio-experience-home/?cl
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on May 19, 2016, 06:07:33 PM
In my experience, the internal DAC in the Bluesound is not all that great and I do all my listening with my Node outputting digital to an EE Dac. It will be interesting to hear how an MQA album played via the Nodes internal DAC compares to a standard redbook version of the same album played through an external DAC. Time will tell......  :-k
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Emil on May 30, 2017, 08:07:32 AM
Maybe its time I get my feet wet with computer audio.

Let me understand this:

1) I need a tablet, laptap, phone or some computer device
2) Pay 19.99 a month for a subscription to tidal
3) Purchase this Bluesound thingy
4) Connect the computer with the Bluesound thingy via wifi. Easy?
5) Connect the Blusound to my DAC via a cable

Sound quality better than Redbook CD?

Emil you have a whole bunch of questions there so let me address them one at a time. First off the Bluesound Node is simply a network streaming device. All it does in and of itself is feed audio files from your home network into your stereo system via a WiFi or hardwired Ethernet connection. That can be digital files that you ripped yourself and stored on a hard drive, digital files that you purchased and downloaded to a hard drive via service like HD Tracks or files that you stream in realtime from a cloud service like Tidal.

The box itself has no controls other than a mute button so you need a computer tablet of smartphone to configure and operate it via a free Bluesound app. If you just want to listen to streaming services you can control it from your phone and don't need a computer at all. Of course if you are going to Rip and store files you will need a computer or a NAS drive to store, but that is up to you them on. (I think you might be able to download from HD Tracks directly and store the files on a NAS or USB attached hard drive, but I have not gotten that far into yet so I can't say for sure.

Setup was painless and other than having to update the firmware to recognize Tidal (being an older unit the firmware it shipped with was looking to connect to WIMP in Denmark, which was the original rollout of what we now know in the US as Tidal).

The Bluesound app provides native Tidal support, so unlike the Squeezbox there are no third party plugins to track down and install. (And BTW, Tidal offers a 30 day free trial so you can check it out on your PC and see what they have to offer before committing to signing up or buying any hardware to support it.)

As for the sound, with the painting I have been doing, kids home from college for Thanksgiving and trying to get all the outdoor Christmas decorations up while the temps are still in the 50s I cannot say that I have had a whole lot of sweet spot listening time since installing the Bluesound, but I have had enough to get some pretty strong initial impressions (and of course like everything else I am sure the unit will benefit from some break in time). It is really hard to do a truly valid A-B comparison with a CD because in most cases you never really know exactly what version of a CD that Tidal ripped for their library (with the exception of some specific audiophile pressings that have distinctive markings on their covers). But that said, in the few brief A-Bs I got the chance to do I found that Tidal sounded no worse than a decent CD pressing. Putting in an orginal CD of the same album yielded a small difference that I would categorize as similar to kind of a increase you might get from upgrading a well done CD pressing from the stock aluminum to the gold version. The differences are there if you listen for them, but they are no where near OMG revelations. And in my mind, if I am really concerned about having a high quality sit down sweet spot session, I am heading down the basement to pull out the vinyl copy anyway so not having the ultimate redbook SQ is a small price to pay  for the amount of access I get to all kinds of recording. (It's like having the whole stock of PREX right in the living room with me   :drool: )

getting myself closer to taking the plunge.

Question: I've seen streamers in the thousands of dollars such as Aurender and Lumin. Whats the point? All its is is a "bridge' between tabklet and dac. No? What am I missing here
Title: Re: Bluesound Node/ MQA JUNE 1
Post by: Emil on May 30, 2017, 08:10:19 AM
MQA coming to Bluesound June 1

http://www.bluesound.com/en-us/news-en-us/2016/bluesound-and-mqa-bring-the-studio-experience-home/?cl

Do we need a MQA decodeable dac?

This comper audio is a pain in the ass :lol:
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on May 30, 2017, 11:20:12 AM
There are two levels of MQA decoding, hardware and software. My Bluesound Node performs MQA software decoding. I will take an MQA encoded files from Tidal and either decode it in software and run it through its own internal DAC, outputting a left and right line level audio signal or is will take the decoded MQA and out put it as a 96/24 digital signal that can be then [processed by any DAC capable of reading a standard 96/24 file.]

The Tidal Desktop App will also perform software MQA decoding with no additional equipment needed.

My limited high level understanding of hardware MQA is that the algorithms in a hardware MQA chip are customized tot he piece of equipment it is installed in and therefore the decoding takes into account the sonic signature of the unit so that the output is as close as possible to the original signal even given the units particular colorations. According to the MQA web site , hardware decoding yields performance similar to what one would see from a 192/24 signal. How the measured or determined that I have no idea, but it is what they claim.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Emil on May 30, 2017, 11:27:28 AM
Thanks, Tom

can you address this question?
Question: I've seen streamers in the thousands of dollars such as Aurender and Lumin. Whats the point? All its is is a "bridge' between tabklet and dac. No? What am I missing here
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on May 30, 2017, 08:16:06 PM
Thanks, Tom

can you address this question?
Question: I've seen streamers in the thousands of dollars such as Aurender and Lumin. Whats the point? All its is is a "bridge' between tabklet and dac. No? What am I missing here


The tablet is just a remote control for the streamer and has nothing to do with the actual playing of the music, just like the remote for a CD player. The streamer itself is an interface between your network and your audio system whether it be to stream music off of the internet or to play files you have stored on your computer or some sort of network storage device. They can output a digital stream to your DAC or use an internal DAC to do the D/A conversion right in the streamer.

I would assume that more expensive streamers contain better DACs. But I have no first hand experience with any streamers other than my Bluesound Node, which has a MSRP of $500. And as you can imagine at that price it has a pretty pedestrian DAC. But since I already had an EE DAC that I am very happy with, the internal DAC was really of no concern to me.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: mfsoa on May 31, 2017, 04:34:09 PM
Get a Pi and have it do just what you want it to. Best $100 you'll spend on your system. The future and all that stuff
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Nick B on May 31, 2017, 08:19:16 PM
Get a Pi and have it do just what you want it to. Best $100 you'll spend on your system. The future and all that stuff

Don't you need to have some good computer skills to put together and set up a Pi?
Nick
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on June 01, 2017, 07:37:33 AM
Get a Pi and have it do just what you want it to. Best $100 you'll spend on your system. The future and all that stuff

Don't you need to have some good computer skills to put together and set up a Pi?
Nick

You will need some computer skills, but with all that is available out on the net I don't think it is anything that can't be self taught, but the biggest thing is time vs money; It is going to a certain amount of time to build and configure the hardware as well as research,select, load and optimize the required software. (and of course the amount of time it takes you will vary with the amount of knowledge you bring to the table to star with in terms of both computers in general and the specific hardware and software you will be working with.) As far as I know Rich was the last one of us here to build a pi music server, perhaps he can comment on how much time and effort he put into the project.

And of course, like any DIY project, if you build a PI you can configure it to get exact what you want feature wise.

However, on the other side the Bluesound Node arrived fully assembled, the setup took me about twenty minutes and did not involve anything more than loading the IDs and passwords for my home network and Tidal account. Loading the Bluesound App on my tablet and I was off to the races.

Downsides, It will not play DXD files, but I don't have any right now, nor do I feel a burning desire to start collecting them, so this is not an issue to me. The software interface is a bit clunky, but I have found way to make do with it. And should I decide that I want a better software interface, Bluesound is now Roon compatible, so I have the option to go that way at anytime should I choose to. And my the Node only offer a Toslink digital output, but my EE DAC has an optical input so that is not a problem for me, (although it is worth noting that the current model, the Node 2, offers both Optical Toslink and electrical RCA digital outputs.)

I can understand why someone would spend more time and/or time to build a Pi or buy a more advanced streamer, but the Node can play all of the files I currently have as well as stream Tidal (including software MQA decoding the Tidal Masters) so it meets my needs right now and at $300 for a plug and play solution it really a no brainer for me, but YMMV.

Will I feel the need to upgrade to something better in the future, I think we all know the answer to that question, but for right now the Node, and Tidal, re giving me a lot of enjoyment for not a lot of coin so I am very happy with it (for now........  :roll:)

Tom
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: richidoo on June 01, 2017, 10:19:31 AM
Get a Pi and have it do just what you want it to. Best $100 you'll spend on your system. The future and all that stuff

Don't you need to have some good computer skills to put together and set up a Pi?
Nick

No, it's very, very easy. Literally anyone can do it if they want to. There is plenty of friendly linux help on the web. Moode Audio has active support thread on diyaudio. 10 new pages/day!

I bought Pi, SD card and adapter, Pi case, PS for $75 delivered same day from Amazon. I downloaded Moode and burned to SD, had it playing music 18 hours after I pulled the trigger.

While I am impressed by the low cost and the good sound quality of the Pi, I do get frustrated by the minor bugs common to any free software. I am pretty intolerant of bugs when it comes to music playback. But so far the latest Moode 3.7 has been bug free for a few days. They work hard to kill the bugs quickly. I like that Moode now charges $10, so the guy can work full time at fixing bugs and adding features.

As for Aurender, Sooloos, Roon, there is always something better, easier, more luxurious, fancier in this extreme hobby - and I believe you get what you pay for.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: mfsoa on June 01, 2017, 06:19:48 PM
Yes, it will take some time, but this a hobby right?  :thumb:

I have three Pis running three completely separate programs connected to my dac, and I did not have to do one bit of Linux programming. It did take some familiarity with basic Windows tasks like unzipping a file, transferring files to a memory card etc.

I guess I just dig the price per performance ratio and maybe I really didn't have much better to do.

I like the flexibility to change the digital filtering, upsampling, dsd conversion etc. You get so ability to tailor the sound, just by pushing a few buttons on your computer.


I don't want to go back to relying on the single choice my DAC  designer happened to make.

 
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on June 01, 2017, 08:13:38 PM
Yes, it will take some time, but this a hobby right?  :thumb:

I have three Pis running three completely separate programs connected to my dac, and I did not have to do one bit of Linux programming. It did take some familiarity with basic Windows tasks like unzipping a file, transferring files to a memory card etc.

I guess I just dig the price per performance ratio and maybe I really didn't have much better to do.

I like the flexibility to change the digital filtering, upsampling, dsd conversion etc. You get so ability to tailor the sound, just by pushing a few buttons on your computer.


I don't want to go back to relying on the single choice my DAC  designer happened to make.

 

And you know what, if you enjoy playing with the pi and the results you get then goof fot you. Your right its a hobby and I guess my point was not to say that it was a bad idea to use a Pi, but rather there were other options if somebody didn't feel comfortable or just didn't want to devote the time it would take to get a Pi system up and running. There are a lot of different aspects to this hobby and we all have our own preferences on which ones float our boats more than others. And there's nothing wrong with that.

An that is also one of the great things about hanging out here. It is usually pretty easy to find another AN member who has spent time playing with damn near any aspects of this hobby who is willing to share his experiences.

And tha
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Nick B on June 01, 2017, 10:08:21 PM
I was actually tempted to try PI and probably could have handled it. But I certainly recall the days some years ago when I was so frustrated dealing with my Squeezebox 2 and I was fortunate enough that Logitech offered phone support back then. Otherwise, I would have been completely stuck. I'm very empathetic to those who don't have the basic knowledge or confidence to proceed. I've been hardened by the many "blue screens of death" that I've encountered. To this day, my wife is still annoyed that I'm streaming wirelessly and she can't simply grasp a disc and put it in a player. For me, the compromise solution was to buy an Auralic Aries Mini and connect it to my dac. It was $500 and basically it's plug and play
Nick
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on June 02, 2017, 06:02:07 AM
The Mini is a nice unit. It does pretty much everything the Node does and in addition it will handle DSD and can be equipped with an internal HHD/SSD and function as a full  music server. There is always some kind of give and take and in this case the take is that the Mini does not support MQA, so I will not decode Tidal Masters (although this could be accomplished in the future via a firmware upgrade should Auralic decide to do so.) but the bigger limitation to me was that according to the Audio Advisor web site "AURALiC Lightning DS is the official control software for all Lightning series hardware. The app is currently available for iPad iOS 8.0 and above systems only. " This severely limits the available control devices in my house since if the iPad left the building, the Auralic would be a brick. I am not a Apple guy, but it sounds to me that since the software is only for Ipad, you would not even be able to use an iPhone to control it. On the other hand, the Bluesound control software is available in versions to run on any apple, Android or Windows device. If you have an iPad that could be dedicated to the server this would not be an issue for you, but is was definitely a large driver in my decision.

Like everything else in this hobby, each component has it's own sets of features and limitation, and you just have to find the one that works best in your particular situation.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Nick B on June 02, 2017, 10:42:06 AM
I've had the Mini for a year. Auralic has said they would never ever be Roon ready for the Mini. But they've had a change of heart. I am currently running Auralic beta 5.5 I believe. It will be Roon ready and be cross platform. Auralic got a lot of heat for just being Apple friendly.
Auralic apparently had discussions re MQA, but a deal was not reached. So Auralic developed their own software which will unfold?? the MQA files.
I like Auralic Lightning DS, but being able to run Roon is what I'm looking forward to. I've heard nothing but praise about Roon and I'm looking forward to their interface. I'll be doing a trial though, not a purchase. I didn't get Bluesound as it required a hard wired connection. My wireless streaming with the Mini has been virtually flawless
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: richidoo on June 02, 2017, 11:24:02 AM
I was actually tempted to try PI and probably could have handled it. But I certainly recall the days some years ago when I was so frustrated dealing with my Squeezebox 2 and I was fortunate enough that Logitech offered phone support back then. Otherwise, I would have been completely stuck. I'm very empathetic to those who don't have the basic knowledge or confidence to proceed. I've been hardened by the many "blue screens of death" that I've encountered. To this day, my wife is still annoyed that I'm streaming wirelessly and she can't simply grasp a disc and put it in a player. For me, the compromise solution was to buy an Auralic Aries Mini and connect it to my dac. It was $500 and basically it's plug and play
Nick

I was Squeezebox man too, loved SB3, didn't like the server part. I tried Duet, but it failed miserably so I ditched SB and moved to Sonos which I still love, apart from poor digital out. I only use the analog outs now which are tolerable, but not great. I have to think that the Sonos digital out can be improve with mods. That would be ideal for me.

You mentioned your wife wishing the stereo was easier to use, Nick. My family was likewise intimidated by my stereo, "too many buttons and they're always changing," not to mention amps laid out on a wooden board with exposed mains voltage so they didn't use it. Then I learned that Pi and Sonos can play streaming audio coming from their cellphones, via Airplay or Spotify Connect. Now they can just flip on the amp and control it from their own phone, play their own playlists and fav artist, etc. They love it, and I like that they are finally using the stereo. Works better on iPhone than Android, ime.

But Sonos will never be Roon ready! It is consumer mid fi product all the way.
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: tmazz on June 02, 2017, 11:39:04 AM
The Sonos may be a mid fi product, but it obviously fills a need for you. Not everything we buy has to be uber hi-fi, just the right tool for the right job.

Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: Nick B on June 02, 2017, 05:39:21 PM
Rich & Tom,
If Roon works out,I will give my wife the following instructions
1) get iPad
2) open cover
3) press on Roon icon
4) scroll for music you like
5) hit play
6) adjust volume on Antelope dac remote
I would think that should do it. I gave Sonos some thought a few years ago, but playing only 16/44 was the deal breaker. Funny though as to date I don't have any 24/96 on my hard drive.
Wyred4sound has a $550 board upgrade for the Sonos, so it doesn't have to be a midfi product
Nick
Title: Re: Bluesound Node
Post by: richidoo on June 02, 2017, 06:34:21 PM
Funny though as to date I don't have any 24/96 on my hard drive.

Me neither, but after watching 4k video for a week I am thinking about trying some high rez music too...
Can't hurt, right?  Or could it?  :shock: Down the rabbit hole headfirst?

I would love to try Roon. A couple of my local friends use and love it.