Author Topic: Crossover upgrading  (Read 17323 times)

Offline Carlman

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2009, 07:37:55 PM »
Carl,  think you'll have these by Saturday or Sunday?

Also- did you go with Rick's recommendations on parts for the crossover?

Rob S.


Rob, I don't know... Rick's still voicing and such so I don't know the ETA yet.  I hope so as it'd be nice to have you by to hear my room with the 'real deal' speakers.  But at the same time I don't want to rush anything.
-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Selah Audio

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2009, 01:40:16 PM »
I always knew in my mind that the Piega crossover was the real culprit in how it sucks power down like nobody's business. 

I've thought about upgrading mine for a long time, but I have always been terrified of how it would turn out.  I just assumed the extreme complexity in the crossover was necessary to match the wildly different drivers.  I will be anxious to hear the result.   

Actually it wasn't that hard to integrate everything; however, if I were to start from scratch I would've designed the woofer section differently. I came up with an unusual solution to match the woofers to the planar drivers and it turned out very well. The crossover was more complex than anything else I've ever seen, maybe with the exception of some older Thiels. The new design is *much* more amp-friendly.

Selah Audio

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2009, 01:52:10 PM »
Carl,  think you'll have these by Saturday or Sunday?

Also- did you go with Rick's recommendations on parts for the crossover?

Rob S.



Right now I have one speaker stock and the other with the modified outboard crossover. I'll set it up so Carl can compare the two. The modified crossover has Clarity PX and SA caps but he can choose other caps in the mid and tweeter section if desired.

Offline rollo

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2009, 04:53:46 PM »
Very interesting. Impressed by the professional approach and methodology. Rick , have some Maggie 3As to play with. When I'm ready you will be the man. Like your style.



charles
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Offline richidoo

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2009, 10:23:10 PM »
We heard the first draft of the new crossover today in one speaker only, compared to the other speaker with stock CO, playing Carl's usual audition tracks. I thought it was no less than an amazing transformation.  Much cleaner, less grunge, clearer tone, much more open. The difference in bass quality is amazing. It is a truly high end speaker now. I can't wait to hear them in stereo with final tweaks.  Thanks for inviting me Rick  and Carl.

Offline Carlman

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2009, 07:07:35 AM »
Yes, it's a transformation.. and the speaker has changed its personality a bit.. it's more 'grown up' sounding... There is much more detail at every level and there is no (audible) distortion.  The downside to this is that it somewhat requires excellent recordings.  You can hear every nuance of everything.  I heard new things I've never heard before yesterday... even in that Peter Gabriel 'Growing Up' song... which we've all heard too many times. ;)  My reaction was, "oh, so that's what that is"... and wow, that recording is weird... as was most of the stuff I brought.. (mostly over produced pop crap).  Sufjan Stevens recording choices were more evident.. with this nasal-sounding mic and for the first time I could really hear how off-key the violinists were.  They're bad.. and I can't imagine it was intentional.  It was super easy to pick instruments and hear the complexity unfurled.  It gave a more 'you are there' presentation.  There was definitely more emotional impact also.  I can't wait to hear the pair in my room...

It was very cool to go back to the stock speaker and hear the changes.  There was a familiarity there which I enjoyed... there is a little distortion in the upper mids that sweetens the highs a bit in the older design... but that's about all I can say good about the older design after hearing the new one.  The new design is just heads and tails above in every way. 

I decided not to change anything Rick had done until I'd lived with them a couple of months.  It's a big change and I didn't feel qualified to tweak Rick's design after listening to 1 speaker in an unfamiliar system.

I'm hoping to get Steve to bring his C8's to compare directly when I've got these setup in my room so we can hear the difference.  I'll have a G2G of course. :)

This change will take me further into the ability to hear the differences in components.

Charles is correct about working with Rick.. a real professional and a class act all the way... and he knows his stuff.

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Selah Audio

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2009, 04:31:29 PM »
Carl is on the way home with his modified set.  :D

Offline Carlman

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2009, 05:42:32 PM »
Now I'm just waiting for wife and friends to get home to help me move them to their home! :)

They sounded really good at Rick's... can't wait to get them into the big room.

It has been a pleasure doing business with Rick, from beginning to end.. thank you!

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline stereofool

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2009, 06:18:27 PM »
Come on, big guy!!

You know that you are excited enough that you can carry them down all by yourself :rofl:!
Steve
Have you ever noticed.... Anyone going slower than you is an idiot...and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

lonewolfny42

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2009, 06:44:10 PM »
Carl is on the way home with his modified set.  :D

Hi Rick...

Don't know if you've checked out Carl's new room, but it is a "must hear"...really nice.
Hope to see you again in Oct. in NYC...too bad no RMAF this year.

                               Chris


Enjoy Carl..... :beer:


Offline Carlman

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2009, 06:54:00 PM »
They are in and playing some reference tracks.. and oh boy.. you guys are not going to be dissapointed.  It's the kind of improvement that builds and builds.. very satisfying. :)  Also, the personality of the speaker is intact, which was one of my bigger concerns.  I'm still in the 'new' phase.. and will let these play overnight.. and get others' opinions tomorrow.. but I'm extremely pleased with the upgrade.
-C
Come on, big guy!!  You know that you are excited enough that you can carry them down all by yourself :rofl:!

You know, I almost did.. had I thought about it more, I think I would've... I have a hand truck.. but the way the crossover was dongled to the speaker made me nervous doing it alone... plus uncrating was a 3 person job.

Note: It would be a good idea to have the external crossovers removable from the speaker. ;)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2009, 06:56:26 PM by Carlman »
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline bpape

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2009, 07:18:47 PM »
I've heard serveral of Rick's designs before and 1 of them in my own room.  Never heard anything that didn't have a ton of potential.

Waiting to hear your impressions after a couple days Carl

Bryan
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Selah Audio

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2009, 06:46:44 AM »
Carl is on the way home with his modified set.  :D

Hi Rick...

Don't know if you've checked out Carl's new room, but it is a "must hear"...really nice.
Hope to see you again in Oct. in NYC...too bad no RMAF this year.

                               Chris


Enjoy Carl..... :beer:


I hope to check it out in the near future. I'll be in NYC after the show if you can make it on the 18th.

Offline Carlman

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2009, 07:21:08 AM »
I'm pretty sure we'll be meeting on the 26th to compare the C8 stock vs. upgrades... that's this coming Saturday.. I'll post it in the other thread about the meet once I confirm with Steve.

So far I'm still liking the sound.. and realizing more and more I'd like a sub.. or 2.  The percussive thud is just missing.. always has been but it's more noticeable now that I have the rest of the musical structure intact.  It's a very cohesive sound..  I just need a little more time to get them positioned properly.  Piega's do not sound good until they're in THE position they want to be.. and that's that. 

I think I'm getting closer but it'll take lots of experimentation before they're 'right'.

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline rollo

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Re: Crossover upgrading
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2009, 08:20:58 AM »
I'm pretty sure we'll be meeting on the 26the to compare the C8 stock vs. upgrades... that's this coming Saturday.. I'll post it in the other thread about the meet once I confirm with Steve.

So far I'm still liking the sound.. and realizing more and more I'd like a sub.. or 2.  The percussive thud is just missing.. always has been but it's more noticeable now that I have the rest of the musical structure intact.  It's a very cohesive sound..  I just need a little more time to get them positioned properly.  Piega's do not sound good until they're in THE position they want to be.. and that's that. 

I think I'm getting closer but it'll take lots of experimentation before they're 'right'.

-C


First off, GOOD LUCK. Carlman those new caps and things need to break in a bit especially the woofer section. Give them some serious time before you add subs. The caps alone need 200 hours plus to settle . If they are Teflon caps longer. The drivers are well broken in so no problem there. Live with them for a while.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.