Author Topic: The Morality of Autotune  (Read 5307 times)

Offline richidoo

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The Morality of Autotune
« on: August 22, 2016, 02:41:03 PM »
When I hear an otherwise good singer's voice being raped and pillaged by an autotune plugin it really disappoints me.

I heard a Colbie Callet single today. She has a lovely voice. Of course, she occasionally sings out of tune, of course, so did Sinatra, so did Elvis, so did Pavaratti. Her voice doesn't need autotune, I have some of her earlier records without it, they are fun and emotional. By 10 year old daughter fell in love with her without autotune. Now someone thinks she needs it. I disagree.

I think the autotune phenomena has gone beyond just correcting the intonation problems of our wonderkind pop singers of dubious vocal skill. When I hear decent singers with autotune then it is becoming part of "The Sound" of modern  pop music, it is required to be in the mix or else the song is not cool and less like to hit.

It's like the "sound" of digital compression. At first it was just to save room on the hard drive when you steal millions of tracks on Napster, (and to ease stress on servers and networks.) But then kids got used to the sound of harsh treble and edgy vocals and soon the CD versions of new pop songs were mixed with that same edgy aggressive sound that you here on a 96kbps mp3.

As an audiophile and a student of great music, I know how wonderful it is to hear a really great vocalist lay down the magic. That's why it irritates me to hear otherwise nice vocals rooned with fake intonation.

Of course there is a "Q" control, or whatever they call it, on autotune to meter how much correction is applied, and these days they are cranking it up to the max for the body of the note, and backing off a little on the attack and decay of the notes so they don't sound like a vocal synthesizer played by a keyboard. But that's pretty much what it is. You could make a dog sing the Star Spangled banner. That would probably be the #1 recording of the year.

What say you?

Should all those early 50s Sarah Vaughan recordings be remastered with autotune to correct her mistakes? I guess she wouldn't be called sassy anymore without the sexy girlish tonal inflections.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 02:58:49 PM by richidoo »

Offline James Edward

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 03:04:15 PM »
How did I not see this when it was first posted... This is probably my biggest gripe with music recorded in the last 10 or 15 years. Auto-tune is an abomination- a hiccup now and again reminds listeners that musicians are making art, not science.
The intro to "On The Road To Find Out" by Cat Stevens on the 'Tea For The  Tillerman' album has a single bum guitar note that never fails to intrigue. I have no idea why.
It's the musical equivalent of CGI in movies. In reality, I like a fuck-up now and again.
Auto-tune vocals turn me off, regardless of how they are used.
And no, don't re-do Sara Vaughn; but it could be an interesting experiment...

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Offline sleepyguy24

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2017, 07:37:09 AM »
Sorry I missed this sooner but I can't stand autotune. Before it was novel with it used in a song here and there for a couple of seconds but autotune is EVERYWHERE now. To me it just needs to stop but it won't. Pop performers who really can't sing that well need the autotune. With them selling so much music autotune will be around for a long time. My hope is producers and pop stars try to limit autotune and others will follow.

Offline jimbones

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2017, 09:02:13 AM »
2 words: Lip Synch :rofl:
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Offline sleepyguy24

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 12:41:45 PM »
2 words: Lip Synch :rofl:

That is too funny.  :-P

Offline topround

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 02:38:31 AM »
I listen to the car radio when I am at work, switching from station to station trying to find music I like.

You quickly realize that todays pop music really sucks, and sucks bad.
Yes there are some decent artists out there, but for the most pat they play the same 10 - 15 songs over and over again.
And while radio has been doing this for many years it seems the pool from which they could draw was much deeper, the pool seems much smaller these days with just a handful of artists making music these days, hence the same few songs being played on the radio, over and over again.
Autotune I think helped create this shallow pool, or helped create the modern artist. Singing is not required these days, in fact not being able to play an instrument is not a hindrance anymore, you can create the music on your laptop, and you can tell.

This will just further the demise of high end audio as there is no music being produced today that truly requires a high end system and most of the sounds are created digitally. How many acoustic instruments are used in pop music these days?
As we age, and die off, the music of our past will die off as well to a large degree.
Perhaps there will be a renaissance at some point but currently the music scene is pretty bad
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Offline mdconnelly

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 07:42:53 AM »
I agree that what you hear on the air these days is mostly terrible and if that's today's youth's only exposure to music, that generation is in trouble.

But... I also think there is a world of wonderful new (or just little known) highly talented artists.  You can hear them on public radio, or streaming services, or in local music venues.  You can seek them out on ReverbNation or BandCamp or via their own websites.  I've discovered a lot of great music that I doubt I'd ever hear over the air.

So my gut tells me it's not the music that's in trouble, but the radio stations.   There's always been shitty music... you just hope the cream rises.


Offline richidoo

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 03:12:33 PM »
Pop isn't "pop" anymore where everyone hears the same top 40 list and that's it. There is pop sales, pop radio airplay, pop for different demographics. People I know stream spotify, they don't listen to radio, so they can choose what kind of "pop" they want to listen to. It's all pop artists, but what my kids listen to is much different than what they play on local top 40 radio. Radio Top 40 is much more rap influence, derivative, monotonous. Dark harmonies, mindless lyrics, really low crap, imo. I was surprised to not hear any of what I would consider "mainstream pop" (happy music for kids) in the hour or so I listened today, before replying here. You know the famous pop stars with new albums out, like Lady Gaga, Adele, etc. Are they old news?

My wife listened to Pandora until recently. She had it trained pretty well to play her Meghan Trainor station. Then she unassumingly "liked" a rollingstones song (on meghan trainor station) and now it's all fucked up with 70s classic rock bullshit. No way to undo a "like" and restore your previous algorithm. So she dumped Pandora in frustration and subscribed to Spotify so she can play Meghan Trainor and Taylor Swift and whoever the hell she wants by name. People want control and they can get it by downloading a different free app.

She also stopped advertising on local radio and uses Pandora now. A friend in radio biz says it's getting tough.

I was glad to see Justin Bieber and Katy Perry drain the swamp in 2010 after 2 decades of rap domination, but that seems to have been one of those charmed innovative periods in music history that come along every once in a while. Now we're back into a boring derivative period, it seems. But there are new records out from big pop stars that I want to hear that aren't on the radio much.

Offline steve

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 07:15:44 PM »
Interesting string. I have met a group, 8 years ago up to even now, who push all sorts of digital manipulation, dbt/abx testing, specs mean all, minimal bit digital recordings etc on some large forums.

I performed some checking and found individual patents, not company patents, on digital manipulation etc involved.

Guess who posts and leads the way? 

Cheers
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 07:42:00 PM by steve »
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Offline steve

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2017, 01:15:36 PM »
When I hear an otherwise good singer's voice being raped and pillaged by an autotune plugin it really disappoints me.

I heard a Colbie Callet single today. She has a lovely voice. Of course, she occasionally sings out of tune, of course, so did Sinatra, so did Elvis, so did Pavaratti. Her voice doesn't need autotune, I have some of her earlier records without it, they are fun and emotional. By 10 year old daughter fell in love with her without autotune. Now someone thinks she needs it. I disagree.

I think the autotune phenomena has gone beyond just correcting the intonation problems of our wonderkind pop singers of dubious vocal skill. When I hear decent singers with autotune then it is becoming part of "The Sound" of modern  pop music, it is required to be in the mix or else the song is not cool and less like to hit.

It's like the "sound" of digital compression. At first it was just to save room on the hard drive when you steal millions of tracks on Napster, (and to ease stress on servers and networks.) But then kids got used to the sound of harsh treble and edgy vocals and soon the CD versions of new pop songs were mixed with that same edgy aggressive sound that you here on a 96kbps mp3.

As an audiophile and a student of great music, I know how wonderful it is to hear a really great vocalist lay down the magic. That's why it irritates me to hear otherwise nice vocals rooned with fake intonation.

What say you?

Should all those early 50s Sarah Vaughan recordings be remastered with autotune to correct her mistakes? I guess she wouldn't be called sassy anymore without the sexy girlish tonal inflections.

Imo, no Sarah does not need auto tune. What happens to those who have truly great voices? Aren't they at a disadvantage since the poor dip singer can sound pretty good with autotune helping him/her out?

Cheers
Steve
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 01:20:02 PM by steve »
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Offline Folsom

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2017, 09:52:11 PM »
Musicians don't really share any reservations about "purity". They love effects and stuff. Anything that appeals goes.

Auto tune doesn't interest me, don't really care for anything with it but I can see how it fits am aesthetic. Most music using it is awful anyway.

Offline richidoo

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2017, 06:34:34 AM »
Musicians don't really share any reservations about "purity". They love effects and stuff. Anything that appeals goes.

Acoustic instrument musicians do care. But they are minority now.

Moral relativism is the rule now, in all aspects of society. People justify immoral behavior by pointing to others who also did it, so it can't be that bad. So the benefit of purity in any pursuit is not obvious to the uninitiated anymore.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 06:53:03 AM by richidoo »

Offline rollo

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2017, 11:01:29 AM »
  Autotune, pumped up Hi-rez they can keep it all. We are always a "Slave" to the source.


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Offline P.I.

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Re: The Morality of Autotune
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2017, 06:13:18 PM »
Think about the Stones, Hendrix, Cream, The Beach Boys, The Animals, The Beatles, Spenser Davis,  Janis Joplin and MOST of the amazing R&R from back in the day ... all of the greats of the '60's - 80's... if everything was perfectly in tune.  Performances are what they are and some great ones have adorable warts and snot in the mic.  May I give you the Greatful Dead!

Just sayin'
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