Author Topic: Doin the Class D thing  (Read 41252 times)

Offline topround

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2015, 12:13:34 PM »
Do these amps go to  11?
System consists of an amp a preamp, 2 speakers a turntable and a phono preamp, Also some cables and power cords and a really cheap cd player.

Offline rollo

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #46 on: October 28, 2015, 01:09:39 PM »
Do these amps go to  11?

   11K no $6300 the pair list price.


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Offline Werd

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2015, 02:50:19 PM »
 Tom there are marketing people involved at all. The amps output stage can produce 40A of maximum  current  output as I was told by the designer and owner of the Arion brand.
  It is on the manf. spec sheet as well. Her are the specs gotten from www.ArionAudio.com

Rated power @8 Ohm  500W and 1000W @4 Ohm
 Sens  1.8V
Input Impedance  200KOhm
Damping factor  900@8Ohm/100HZ
Max. current output   40Amp
Freq.  20 -20KHz

    

charles
  
  

Here is where I think the specs are misleading. All of the other specs they quote are continuous duty specs and the the throw in the 40 amps in the same way without identifying it as instantaneous peak current. the ability to hit peaks of 40 amps gives you great headroom and would make a good story if you just told it that way.

So this leads me to believe that the marketing people who put together the promotional material were at best do not understand the difference between instantaneous peak and continuous duty output or at worst deliberately deceitful. technologically clueless.

And for the record, I have nothing against Arion, but as most engineers, I don't have a lot of use for the marketing department.

All good high powered amps will do that. My Bryston was in that area no problem. I am sure this Chapter 400S will do it too. The power supply has to be of good quality because power out the outlet from the wall won't. It's the best argument for transformer based conditioning like the Torus because it helps relieve the amp's burden to recover and deliver high instant current.
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Offline mfsoa

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2015, 04:18:36 PM »
I had an old Harmon Kardon amp that boasted 60 amps capability. Their small integrated IIRC could do 30 or 40 amps. Of course we all know that this is instantaneous current at some very low impedance, per tmazz.

One thing I dig re class D is the set and forget nature of the beast. I don't turn my amps on or off or ever wonder if they'll rock when I ask them to. Oh the days of losing an expensive KT88 which took out my expensive fuse... :duh. What? I'm $100 away from listening to music again?  :shock:

And I like knowing that I draw close to 0 watts at idle and convert 90+% of the energy they use into music. (please don't ask about the 10 tubes glowing my pre, fed by its huge outboard power supply  :-)

Offline rollo

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2015, 09:06:29 AM »
 OK spoke to Mike Kalesis of Arion. He stated that the 40A is not continuous as we all know. It is MAXIMUM available. Meaning lots of headroom when needed. He felt not misleading at all because that is what it measures.
    Great for diploes of all brands and electrostatic as well. Thei are many fine amps out there however IMO [ why I took on the line] are special with MAggies, Apogee, Sound Lab and Martin Logan.
   The amps were designed using the Analysis speakers. Come hear them with all Duelund caps in the Analysis crossover and you might be as smitten as I was.
    The amps were choosen for how much we can make. They were chosen because of their sound with dipoles. Not for everyone or every speaker but if you own dipoles a demo will enlighten you as to what is possible.
    Ya NEVER know until you try. That is all ,try it costs nothing. Unless you lie them :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


charles
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Offline Response Audio

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2016, 10:41:45 AM »
Still doing the Class D thing. Although I use a hybrid, I dont think I will be getting away from Class D for some time.
with the right combination, you get all the sonic benifits of both tube and solid state. Especially dynamics.
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Offline rollo

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2016, 12:19:47 PM »
Still doing the Class D thing. Although I use a hybrid, I dont think I will be getting away from Class D for some time.
with the right combination, you get all the sonic benifits of both tube and solid state. Especially dynamics.

  Yes sir. Exactly. I have been trying to show others how hybrid class "D" is better but you know you can lead them to the water but "they' must drink.
   

charles
   
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Offline ampdesigner333

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2016, 03:20:48 PM »
Still doing the Class D thing. Although I use a hybrid, I dont think I will be getting away from Class D for some time.
with the right combination, you get all the sonic benifits of both tube and solid state. Especially dynamics.

  Yes sir. Exactly. I have been trying to show others how hybrid class "D" is better but you know you can lead them to the water but "they' must drink.
   

charles
   

Charles,
"Better" is an opinion here.  With Cherry amps, there is no need for such "fixing" of the amplifier by coloring the signal that feeds it.  Just ask any of our customers.  Actually, you should listen to the Maraschino (or Golden Cherry) before you conclude on what Class-D can sound like.  Thanks.

-Tommy O
Digital Amp Co
CherryAmp.com

p.s. Maraschino compared to other Class-D amps:
    - much higher bandwidth
    - several TIMES the switching frequency for higher resolution
    - patented and proprietary modulator design is proven through decades of research
    - we make our own circuits, no pre-fab modules
    - tweaked for sound quality although bench measurements are outstanding
Digital Amplifier Company
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Offline Response Audio

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2016, 11:07:37 AM »
Quote
there is no need for such "fixing" of the amplifier by coloring the signal that feeds it.

We don't add the buffer stage to "fix" anything. It was a sonic decission based on what our customers have been asking for for several years.  Our amplifier has a 100% approval by everyone who has heard it in their systems including all current owners.

Im not making any claims that our Ibrido amplifier is "better" than anyone elses. The Ibrido is a Musica Bella product and it has lived up to all expectations. Same goes for our preamplifiers. They have certainly stood the test of time.

The Segue input stage is also available as a separate component and even available as a tube buffer preamp. Both have found their way into very expensive systems. The straight buffer between some of the best preamps and amplifiers available. Including many Class D designs and the Segue pre in front of amplifiers of all types. Tubes, solid state, hybrids and Class D.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 11:19:04 AM by Response Audio »
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Offline Werd

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2016, 11:14:01 PM »
Amps are not that easily dismissed as -just so long as it is neutral it is a go.- My wording but basically the intended premise here. It has to be able to power a layered 3D sound stage. This is not easy with ANY class output.
Tubes are easier since the power supplies are huge compared to the working output. Get the picture. All great power power amps are current driven and not some high gain output like used in home theatre or P.A amps.

Just saying.
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Offline ampdesigner333

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2016, 10:05:05 AM »
One technique we've used to improve audio quality and measurable performance is to shorten the audio path. For example, going direct from the DAC to the amp. However, the same can be done internally in components. This is something we do in our DAC DAC and Maraschino amplifiers.  We use as few stages as possible.  For example, we rearranged some circuitry to eliminate a buffer stage in the Maraschino.  Adding "steps" to the path can only lower performance by adding noise and distortion. In some cases, such as in a few tube preamps, the added distortion has a pleasant sound. This is VERY subjective stuff.  Well, there's my 2 cents for today (:

-Tommy O
www.CherryAmp.com
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Offline uncola

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2016, 06:07:40 PM »
That's how I prefer to do things too.  I connect my dac directly to my speaker amp and use the dacs volume control.  I haven't heard any resolution loss although I know theoretically it's there.  I tried putting a passive preamp with super short low capacitance rcas in between the dac and amp but heard no improvement so I went back to dac as volume control.

Offline rollo

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2016, 05:00:50 PM »
Still doing the Class D thing. Although I use a hybrid, I dont think I will be getting away from Class D for some time.
with the right combination, you get all the sonic benifits of both tube and solid state. Especially dynamics.

  Yes sir. Exactly. I have been trying to show others how hybrid class "D" is better but you know you can lead them to the water but "they' must drink.
   

charles
   

Charles,
"Better" is an opinion here.  With Cherry amps, there is no need for such "fixing" of the amplifier by coloring the signal that feeds it.  Just ask any of our customers.  Actually, you should listen to the Maraschino (or Golden Cherry) before you conclude on what Class-D can sound like.  Thanks.

-Tommy O
Digital Amp Co
CherryAmp.com

p.s. Maraschino compared to other Class-D amps:
    - much higher bandwidth
    - several TIMES the switching frequency for higher resolution
    - patented and proprietary modulator design is proven through decades of research
    - we make our own circuits, no pre-fab modules
    - tweaked for sound quality although bench measurements are outstanding


   Tom I have heard your amps. Not your latest however. Bring them to one of our AudioSyndrome meetings and we will directly compare to a hybrid design.
  For my taste all non hybrid class "D" amps I have heard are lean or bright or just Hi Fi. Sorry my experience. Change our minds.
   You make a fine product from what I have heard however nothing like a direct comparison in one system.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline KLH007

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2016, 02:11:33 PM »
Gauntlet thrown!

Offline ampdesigner333

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Re: Doin the Class D thing
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2016, 11:47:41 AM »


   Tom I have heard your amps. Not your latest however. Bring them to one of our AudioSyndrome meetings and we will directly compare to a hybrid design.
  For my taste all non hybrid class "D" amps I have heard are lean or bright or just Hi Fi. Sorry my experience. Change our minds.
   You make a fine product from what I have heard however nothing like a direct comparison in one system.


charles
Charles,

Yes, the proof is in the pudding.  Things are super busy for us currently, so please send me a regular email (tobrien@....) and we'll talk about getting you a pair of demo Maraschinos.  Also, please send info about your AudioSyndrome meetings.  Thanks.

-Tommy
Digital Amp Co
www.CherryAmp.com
Digital Amplifier Company
  Makers of the "Cherry Amplifier" (R)
    WE DELIVER THE DETAIL
      ---- www.CherryAmp.com ----