AudioNervosa
Group Therapy => NC Triangulation => Topic started by: richidoo on October 27, 2011, 12:19:20 PM
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Time to gather up the crew for some tunes before the holidays. It's a Saturday, 2pm til...
I've made some changes since July's meet. The 300Bs input grounding was brought up to the current version, which removed the internal hum for a 10dB improvement in noise. The speakers have much improved input connections, plus less stuffing and less tweeter. The Buffalo2 DAC has an all new power supply which made a huge difference, and a 5th Belleson regulator for the core. The improvements all add up and it is sounding pretty good now - on the warm and easy side due to the horn loaded speakers. Good imaging, good bass, good detail, with horn warmth smeared all over everything. :lol:
We will be playing a lot of vinyl, in addition to the digital. You are welcome to bring LPs and CDs.
We could use 2 pairs of purple RCAs, and one PC. Then it's all remote control.
Short notice, but I hope everyone can make it. Pizza, salad and drinks are served. Please donate $5 for chow.
Rich
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I am IN...I'll bring cables. You need anything else???
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Woo Hoo... I'm in... and I should be able to stay a bit longer than my usual.
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Rich, it seems I'll be out of town that weekend. If anything changes, I'll be sure to let you know!
Damn, my real life keeps getting in the way of my audio life :duh
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Damn, my real life keeps getting in the way of my audio life :duh
I hate it when that happens. :evil:
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Bump
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I'll likely be there.... looking forward to seeing how things are coming along, Rich....
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I'm in the midst of a lot of 'stuff' but plan to make it. However, my plans may need to change depending... But I will do my best.
C
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Thanks Guys! :thumb:
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I have missed a few, but I will try to make this one.
Chris
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I feel like jinxing myself..... Sol says amps should be there for me to take home to listen if all goes according to plan.... mythical objects that have not yet been seen in the wild...
Should be interesting if it does happen....
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Awesome Shane! That will be fun.
Glad you can make it Chris.
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Rich,
Since you mentioned vinyl, do you want me to bring the PH-5, as well as cables???
Just 10 days away...looking forward to it!
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I hope to be able to stop by to see/hear your new system and say hello to everyone.
Ken
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Hi Steve, Thanks for offering, but I'd like to use my Vista. Can you bring a power cord and a pair of purple RCAs? And some records you like! Thanks
Ken's coming!! Now it's a party!
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Dang, love to join you guys. Have a great time. Pictures.
charles
SMA
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I do believe I can finally make one. :D
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Glad you can make it.
One week from today...
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Glad you can make it.
One week from today...
Can we get pics this time ?
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Pictures, Yes.
I discovered something nice tonight while tweaking the system for the g2g. The mid driver and cabinets were designed for SE triode amps and the crossovers were voiced by the designer using a 300B SE. I have been running SS PP and even the 300Bs in PP mode and not entirely happy. Some freqs were clear, others muffled, some sharp, others dull. I avoided SE mode because it is less power, and even the PP mode with 24W needs some feedback to prevent slight distortion on the peaks. Well golly gee, tonight I switched in SE and listened for a while to my favorite latin jazz radio show. The Sansui TU-717 radio has great tone quality and the speakers came to life. The parallel SE mode with only 11W needs no feedback, and is kickin, even on symphonies. I guess the parallel tubes deliver more current than a single tube pushing or pulling so the feedback is not needed. The extra warmth of SE compliments the warmth of the horns and it just works.
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Glad you can make it.
One week from today...
Can we get pics this time ?
I'll make sure that we DO :lol:!
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You have experienced the Humpty Dumpty effect. Once the PP splits the signal "All the King's horses and all the King's Men couldn't put him back together again." Phase splitting.
Once that single ended bug bites it is tough to recover. :-P . Over the years we have assembled numerous fine sounding systems with PP amps. There is just something special about SET and horns. If you get to hear a 211 based SET [ 18W ] with say a GE 211 tubesthe warmth factor diminishes slightly with more clarity. If you use an RCA 211 ya get both in spades, oh my !
Have fun trying different amps. I love that 300B sound, just not for bass reproduction.
charles
SMA
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That makes sense Charles. I always love the class A sound, whether it is SS or tubes it's easy to hear. Everything just relaxes. I just don't like too much 2nd order distortion that SE tubes usually makes. This speakers has enough already, but somehow the SE tubes cover up the annoying parts of the speaker. 3rd order distortion I love, but that's usually class A PP like Pass. I like 845s too every since I heard Mastersound's 845PPs. I'd love to hear Hugh's M845 monos.
This combination makes pretty good bass. Not as clear detail as a SS amp with 800 damping factor. But Manley winds their own iron and worked on these transformers for a long time for this neoClassic version. The trannies must be switchable SE/PP, plus sound clear, plus low impedance and dual output taps. They source about 2ohms, and the 8 ohm woofers are in series so it is pretty punchy for SET. I do like these amps for hteir adaptability, but if I get a speaker working the way I want, I'll go for a less flexible/compromised design.
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Yes the Melody M845 is an interesting design and execution.
Would like to hear them myself.
charles
SMA
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Is everybody ready to rock and roll? See you then!
Rich
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I may be the only one who doesn't know where you live. Please shoot me a PM.
Also, do you need anything? Maybe I can help out with something. Thanks.
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Rich,
I'm about ready...I'll show-up with a smile and cables. OK, maybe with clothes on, too :lol:!
What flavor of JPS's do you need?
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Have fun guys , and remember
:pics?:
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mac5u, no need to bring anything unless you don't like pizza or want to show off your culinary skills... ;) I pMed you with addy Drive safely!!! I think you are the farthest traveler.
Stevo, please bring:
clothes
1 pair purple RCAs
2 PCs
vinyl soapy brush and rinse brush or whatever you use for scrubbing
Shane please bring:
2PCs for your tube amps
balanced ICs if you want to try the balanced input?
Steve's Ref 1 has balanced out, but my DAC does not yet. Maybe your new DAC does?
I have dummy resistors to keep the tubes hot if we do some comparing.
Bring some vinyl guys! We have Steve's VPI 16.0 rcm here. and CDs too... or drives.
I'm looking forward to seeing everybody again!
Rich
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My NAS crashed tonight. I think it is trying to rebuild itself, but I won't know until the morning.
Edit... The nas is back up now, all data safe. But one disk is dead. I like RAID.
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I'm so sorry I couldn't make it today. Long story short: We had family in town and there was lots of 'stuff' going on that prevented me from making it. I have had a stack of records on the kitchen table all day.. guess I should put those back downstairs before they become a plate for pancakes... :(
I hope everyone had (or is still having) a fun time today.
-C
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I don't know about anyone else... but I had a good time :)
Sol didn't make it until after 7PM because he was frantically soldering and bench testing an addition to the get together....my custom tube monoblocks :)
even fresh off the soldering station with zero break-in time, they were really quite good... some minor things that still need to be worked on with grounding and mechanical noise... and maybe some heat dissipation things to address... but not too shabby at all.... they definitely made Rich's speakers come alive. I really like the PRAT and drive with the new amps...
Thanks as always to Rich for putting on a good show and making it fun to hang out and just listen... I don't get to do that nearly enough these days.... we spun a lot of vinyl at this meet with not a ton of gear swapping around... only a couple changes over the course of 10+ hours.. I can hardly believe it... that's so not like us :)....
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Good fun today. Thanks to all who came over. This was one of my favorite meets. We did spin a lot of vinyl, mostly jazz and classic rock, and it sounded good. Chrisa brought some 45rpm trad. jazz, and direct to disk sides which sounded great. I especially like the Chuck Mangione Bellavia, a word I had not heard since my macho stageband trumpet dude days 30 years ago, that was a fun last from the past to hear that tune.
Steve played a Blood Sweat and Tears track with low male vocal that we all loved and it became our informal test track for the relatively few equipment swaps that we did.
Sol's new amps are awesome. Put my Manleys to shame in dynamics, tone quality and overall balls. Of course they have 3x the power, but it was more than that. Very special.
It was fun meeting mac5u (Mike) who drove 3 hours from SC border near Charlotte. He brought his Lector ZOE preamp which sounded really sweet, and a CD by a very talented young female vocalist. What is her name again, Mike? The record you like is this. (http://amoslee.com/music/amos-lee/)
Thanks to Shane for bringing his integrated amp and cables, and to Steve for bringing cables, records, CDs and assorted tools and G2G fix'ems, as well as snacks.
My speakers fared well, much better than last time, and best with Sol's new tube amps and moderate volume. I got some good advice about where to go next.
We missed you Carl. Next time!
Rich
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Rich,
As always, thanks to you and your family, for allowing us into your home :thumb:!
It was a long day, but wonderful to see so many of the guys, again! Mike/mac5u, it was certainly nice to meet you and hope you can join us again.
Definitely a success...the plan of having a G2G with mostly listening to music, was very enjoyable.
Your speakers definitely sounded better, this time around. Your hard work is coming along, nicely. Early on, Shane played some 'rock' tracks; with your Manley's driving them, they didn't sound very good. Even though this speaker is supposed to be very efficient, your amps weren't up to the task. Now, with smooth jazz or classical, played at moderate levels...they were sounding pretty darn good.
Your Clearaudio TT and Buffalo DAC were sounding very nice, as well. I'd have to give the nod to the vinyl, such a smooth/organic sound. The only issue, with the vinyl, is having to get up off my lazy ass, and pick the stylus up from the surface, then having to lift one lp off and putting another on. Man, is digital much more convenient, even though I find it lacking by comparison.
Fast forward to evening, and the arrival of Sol with Shane's new tube monoblocks. These basically had ZERO time on them, however what a revelation. As soon as they were inserted, Rich's speakers just came ALIVE!!! There was excellent PRAT, they sounded much smoother, with lots of punch. They had lots of 'air', pinpoint imaging, excellent extension to the extremes. Rocks tracks (now) were very 'toe-tapping/head-nodding' listenable :thumb:.
Well done, Sol!!! Once again, you amaze us with your design accumin. I wish that I had even an iota of the audio electronics knowledge that you possess.
Finally, I did snap some pics and I will working on getting them up, as the day goes by...YAWN. All I could do when I got home at 2:00AM, was to crash into bed...zzzzzzzzz!
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Rich,
I'll just echo what Steve wrote and thank you and your family for having us over. This was my first G2G and I had a blast. It was terrific meeting you, your kids are great, and I enjoyed shooting some real estate breeze with your lovely wife. It was an enjoyable Saturday afternoon / evening.
Yeah, Shane, everyone did have a good time. I think, though, reflecting back on Steve's comment a moment ago about bending down to pick up the stylus when changing out tunes -- we were all grateful that Steve did wear some clothes. :D
It was terrific meeting everyone who showed up. You know how it is -- you converse with someone you have never met and you try to put a face to that person. I am glad I was able to meet some of you, and most of you are actually better looking and younger than I imagined!
Like Shane mentioned, there wasn't much gear-swapping but the signal event of the evening when Sol brought over Shane's new mono blocks did an incredible transformation on Steve's speakers. One really had to be there to experience it.
I'm looking forward to Steve's pics, future G2Gs, and now that Rich has shown me how to do it right, I'll be hosting one down in Charlotte next spring.
Rich, the female vocalist is Renee Olstead (http://www.amazon.com/Renee-Olstead/dp/B00020HEL6/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1321197814&sr=1-1/).
--Mike
(Link fixed)
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Pics are up :shock:!
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=album;id=104
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Nice pics Steve! Thanks for being our vinyl flipper, and honest but gentle criticizer.
Thanks for driving up Mike, look forward to seeing you again soon.
I am sitting here with Sol listening to the amps playing perfect Chesky sampler tracks direct from DAC to amps, after he changed something on the inputs to cure the hum while maintaining full AC ground. They sound gorgeous. I'll be selling my Manleys soon and building these. Sol tells me they are biased to about 10W in class A, with about 70W max.
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Pics are up :shock:!
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=album;id=104
Thanks
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Hey Rich speakers looking good. Nice to see y'all in the photos.
charles
SMA
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I must say.... this get together got the juices flowing more than in the recent past... I was already gearing up with some new purchases.... now hearing the amps and just enjoying music for an entire evening, I want to keep the ball rolling...
I spent all day yesterday working with my woodworking guy. I'm doing a crazy awesome custom closet install in the master done in dark stained american walnut. The floor in there is already brazilian walnut I put in right after buying the house. This is going to be seriously great looking... but because I was tied up with that allll day long yesterday and will be doing it several nights this week, I left the amps with Rich for him to break them in a bit for me.... he doesn't seem to mind :)
but last night when my muscles were killing me from carrying walnut closet pieces all day and I couldn't sleep, I went a little nuts and ordered up a bunch of parts to build out silent linux boxes... I've been curious to try them in comparison to my windows based media servers. With JPS Labs USB cables in hand and 3 different USB capable DACs here (PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC that is about to have a digital board upgrade that will include 24/192 asynch USB, Antelope Audio Zodiac Gold with voltikus and the AMR DP-777 dual DAC chip unit), I think we need to have some serious listening sessions with different music delivery sources and DAC combos.... with all the other amp additions being made to my systems, I'm definitely going to have to host one of my own get togethers very soon.... actually, I'm going to have to try to host a couple of them before I'm put in baby jail when the little one arrives next year....
Thanks again Rich for hosting and breaking in my amps some more until I can get over there to pick them up.... It was great to see old friends again and to meet some new faces! I hope to see everyone again real soon....
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I definitely enjoyed myself too. Less gear swapping and more listening and visiting is good.
I was quite impressed with how clean and dynamic the vinyl sounded, and I'll add my comments to the chorus that Sol's amps were very impressive. If he can fit two channels into that cabinet size, I'll take one!
Rich's speakers were a bit colored sounding on some recordings driven by the 300B's, but this was much less apparent with the quicker amps. Very well balanced, warm and listenable; and with sparkle and deep bass when called for.
Chris
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I'll chime in as well... although I didn't stay as nearly long as I would have liked, I enjoyed myself tremendously and many thanks to Rich and his family for being such generous hosts opening their doors to everyone! :thumb:
I never got to listen to Sol's Amp (left too early), so it's hard to compare, but with certain music, I thought his speakers did very well. Melody Gardot, Amos Lee, Damien Rice (Thanks Shane for throwing him on - I ordered a CD while I was there - love the iPhone and Amazon's used selections)... I imagine Norah Jones would sound very good as well.... Female/Jazz vocals do very very well. If the new amps had that much of an impact (speed, articulation)... then that sounds like a good next project for Rich (insert evil grin). :thumb:
Dave
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I shined up my 300Bs for sale today, and looking forward to building a pair of these 6C33s for myself.
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Wow, a completely DIY system that has world-class sonics. Well done, Rich.
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looking forward to building a pair of these 6C33s for myself.
Keep me in mind...I might want to jump into the same project 8).
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Wow, a completely DIY system that has world-class sonics. Well done, Rich.
Yeah, that is pretty cool. The DAC did well, I think. Nobody complained about it, a good sign.
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looking forward to building a pair of these 6C33s for myself.
Keep me in mind...I might want to jump into the same project 8).
Although I didn't get a chance to hear them, I may be interested as well... I'd at least be curious to see what the rough part cost would be... Unfortunately, finances are tight at the moment.
Dave
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It is a pretty complicated amp. There are several low voltage control boards. Sol has invented some unique methods for monitoring, regulating, and protecting the amplifier with all analog circuits. Like continuous autobias without using logic.
We've talked some about commercializing it, but we have been talking about commercializing Sol's amps for a long long time. Hopefully it can happen soon. It takes a lot of money to bring a design to market.
Rich