about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac

[Nick B]

What type of digital are you looking for BNC, XLR, or spdif?

Spdif rca's

[Werd]

Atlas Mavros 1.5 meter. You will never look back. It keeps all prat intact, better than anything i have heard in rca.

[Nick B]

Atlas Mavros 1.5 meter. You will never look back. It keeps all prat intact, better than anything i have heard in rca.

Thanks for the info. I found the US distributor and am sending an email. I presume you have this? If so, what else did you try before you chose this cable?

[Werd]

Yes that is the rca i use. I put BNC adaptors on it. I've used many other connects including Kimber, Wywires, Cardas, Straight Wire, Gutwire, XLO and others. You can use component video cables also if you are stuck.  The next best rca i have tried that is close is the Atlas Opus, the one lower in their line. I do not think you can get it anymore.

[rollo]

  Nick selecting a digital cable can be never ending. Why ? in my experience digital cables sound drastically different. You can have 10 cables on hand and each will sound different.
   Before you decide start with the character desired to cut the chase. Do ya want neutral ? rich ? bright ? [ hell no ]. Then do some reading of reviews to get a idea of the character.
   A must have is a 75 ohm cable. Shielded number two. IMO a minimum of two meters as added length eliminates reflections on the cable according to Cardas. He actually recommends 17ft 6 inches. I never tried that however at 2 or 3 meters there was a difference with the same brand no matter what brand. Three BNC if possible as that connector is a true 75 Ohm connector.
   Had enough  . Taking your time selecting the right one for YOUR application will be well worth the effort. Happy trails.


charles

[jimbones]

Years ago StereoNut lent me a a bag of several SPDIF cables most of them sounded slightly different from each other (not enough to make a decision) but one was way better than the lot. I ended up buying that cable from Bill. It is an ELCO SPDIF cable. My advice, listen to as many as you can before laying out the $$ if you can.

[Werd]

The 1.5 meter is the suggested length by Steve Nugent. He says 2 meters is too long (unless he has changed his stance?). Resolution is minimal and only useful in gauging whether the cable is overly dark  (like heavily shielded Monster video cables) or more open (like Kimber Illuminations). You can tell by looking at the cable what the resolution will be. You listen for prat in digital cabling. How it handles the beats (especially where the instruments are layered) you want the beats to remain intact while layered. Most rca's are pretty lousy at this and they seem to lose timing. The music comes off sounding 4/4 timing with less emphasis on the beats.  They are also less laid back. You want the reverse, even at 4/4 timing you want things to sound more emphasis on off beat snare hits and bass drum hits all while sounding more laid back. That is what i have come to learn about digital cables. Good instrumental jazz like Bill Frisell is great at hearing digital cabling or any symphony imo

[rollo]

   Interesting that Cardas recommends long length and Nugent 1.5 mtrs.
   No matter Werd makes some good points. If it were me I would change the connectors on any DAC or CDP to BNC first. But thats me.
   Then a true 75 Ohm cable would show its merits. A huge difference IMO. If there is an internal pulse generator from RCA input to board the a true 75 Ohm cable may not matter as the Pulse Gen. is designed to present a 75 Ohm load.
   The Promithius DAC I own has that feature. I have used standard IC with zero issue.
   

charles

[Werd]

Well it was Nugent that first made it known. It is his baby, but in all likely-hood 1.5 meter is the most reasonable length. There are probably longer lengths (a multiple of 1.5)  that maybe better but unrealistic cost wise. He also made mention that BNC adaptors are the way to go, opposed to fitting a coax with a BNC. Now that last part is from memory and maybe completely incorrect. But i think he said that. It makes sense fitting an adaptor since RCA are easier to sell than a committed BNC.

Its imho, all your prat tweaks are bound up in source cabling. Mostly the spdif or 110 ohm xlr position. Speaker cabling does about as much for Prat as 75 ohm rca does for Resolution. IF you want more resolution concentrate on the speaker cabling.

[Werd]

What I have right now is a lot of detail and a pretty neutral, but still a bit hard top end. The MIT digital has lowered the noise floor. I'd like to retain as much of the detail as I can, but tip things a bit toward a warm midrange. Bass is of little consequence to me due to my listening tastes and room limitations. Everything I've heard about TWL points to a more warm, tubelike and engaging sound. That's very intriguing. I did audition Zen Dave's stuff a couple of years ago and it was excellent, but yikes the price for his high end cables is quite high.

I agree regarding having cables of the same type and for me the same manufacturer as well. Trying to mix and match too many cables would drive me nuts. I just don't enjoy that.

As to the connectors being BNC, I'm still running my SB2 with RCA out and the Antelope does not have BNC. I don't see much point in adding Rca to bnc adapters if the Rca  cable is true 75 ohm.

The BNC adaptors are for BNC inputs using rca 75 ohm digital cables only. Forget about BNC you do not have it. Unless you have BNC out on your streamer or player into the dac then use adaptors on the streamer side and rca on your dac side.

Everything you have said so far is encouraging. The detail and even the hard high end. I like that since it is completely repairable and tells me your dac etches out detail. Which is where you want to start. Since it is a lot easier to go from that to warmer than warmer to detail. You can probably repair that hard top end with power cabling. 75 or 110 ohm won't do much I have found. You are going to gravitate towards darker 75 ohm cabling. That will probably not work, you will just end up with a hard top treble that sounds darker..lol.

[Nick B]

Well, I thought I had posted my response within the last day or two, but apparently I didn't hit save. Thanks for your comments and recommendations. I'll probably order one cable today from MG Audio and live with it for a while before going on to another cable and possibly more.

[Werd]

Looks good

[rollo]

  Well it appears not all designers think 75 Ohms is the right way to go. I may have to rethink my previous stance.
     Mad Scientist uses a 37 Ohm cable not 75 Ohm. His design philosophy is based on reflections and states that at 37 Ohms the resistance of such cures the reflections. Hmmm.
   Very interesting approach. Werd on the speaker cable thing agree 100%. The biggest change for the good has been with speaker cables. However digital cable must be correct first to fully appreciate the speaker cable change.
   In my experience there is no best digital cable. Only best in ones application. Finding the right one is the tough part. Not listening but gathering up a bunch to evaluate. However well worth the effort.

charles

[Nick B]

  Well it appears not all designers think 75 Ohms is the right way to go. I may have to rethink my previous stance.
     Mad Scientist uses a 37 Ohm cable not 75 Ohm. His design philosophy is based on reflections and states that at 37 Ohms the resistance of such cures the reflections. Hmmm.
   Very interesting approach. Werd on the speaker cable thing agree 100%. The biggest change for the good has been with speaker cables. However digital cable must be correct first to fully appreciate the speaker cable change.
   In my experience there is no best digital cable. Only best in ones application. Finding the right one is the tough part. Not listening but gathering up a bunch to evaluate. However well worth the effort.

charles

Well, 37 ohms is interesting. I'm not a fan of long cables, reflections and all. Never tried different lengths though. I believe dartZeel uses a 50 ohm standard, but then again, I don't know all that much about technical issues

[Nick B]

Well, after I passed 500 hours, I haven't been keeping track of the break in hours any longer. But I'm probably at 650 - 700 by now and this Antelope dac continues to improve .... and amaze.  More refined, more space around voices and instruments and less sibilance. I had read a few reviews of the Gold and one guy said he noticed improvement still at 1400 hours and I thought he was crazy. But he may be quite correct. Things sound so good now I really don't need to tinker all that much. But what would be the fun of that?? Besides, it is my goal to complete my system to reference quality (within reason $$).

Werd,  I heard back from the Atlas dealer and the Mavros goes for $484 for one meter. That's a bit pricey for me and I can get a one meter from Audio Sensibilty in Canada for $180 shipped. So I'll be trying that and The Ed Smith digital from MG Audio. Haven't ordered anything yet with the holidays and the hectic shipping pace.