Author Topic: Need a power conditioner maven  (Read 30328 times)

Offline Werd

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2015, 10:36:38 PM »
2 phase is where it's at. IMO of course.

FYI - Balanced 120v is still single phase.  The most common residential and small commercial service in Canada and the U.S., single split-phase, 240 V, features a neutral and two hot legs, 240 V to each other, and 120 V each to the neutral. Neutral wire is the return conductor of a circuit; in building wiring systems the neutral wire is connected to earth ground at least at one point. North American standards state that the neutral is neither switched nor fused except in very narrowly defined circumstances. The neutral is connected to the center tap of the power company transformer of a split-phase system.

A balanced power transformer simply lowers the voltage of each of the hot legs down to 60v rms so that you can get 120 by wiring across the 2 hot legs. While you are referencing the two hot legs to each other it is still a single phase system.

Three phase power is most commonly used in the power distribution grid because if it's increased transmission efficiency over single phase operation. End user use of three phase power is most commonly found when powering large machines or heavy duty motors because of the smoother operation and lower level of surging compared to single phase operation (would be nice for a TT motor is it wasn't  so damn expensive to bring three phase power into a home.)

Nope not true, 240v 2 phase or balanced means running two 15 amp hots (no neutral) plus a ground into an outlet. Mine is 240 20 amp but it could supply 240 30 amp which is available with that same circuit. I can get a bigger one in 3 phase but really point less u lees you got some bar PA thing going on.
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Offline Werd

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2015, 05:00:18 AM »
2 phase is where it's at. IMO of course.

FYI - Balanced 120v is still single phase.  The most common residential and small commercial service in Canada and the U.S., single split-phase, 240 V, features a neutral and two hot legs, 240 V to each other, and 120 V each to the neutral. Neutral wire is the return conductor of a circuit; in building wiring systems the neutral wire is connected to earth ground at least at one point. North American standards state that the neutral is neither switched nor fused except in very narrowly defined circumstances. The neutral is connected to the center tap of the power company transformer of a split-phase system.

A balanced power transformer simply lowers the voltage of each of the hot legs down to 60v rms so that you can get 120 by wiring across the 2 hot legs. While you are referencing the two hot legs to each other it is still a single phase system.

Three phase power is most commonly used in the power distribution grid because if it's increased transmission efficiency over single phase operation. End user use of three phase power is most commonly found when powering large machines or heavy duty motors because of the smoother operation and lower level of surging compared to single phase operation (would be nice for a TT motor is it wasn't  so damn expensive to bring three phase power into a home.)

Yes you are right... Sorry. This is accurate for single phase.
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Offline tmazz

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2015, 01:19:12 PM »
2 phase is where it's at. IMO of course.

FYI - Balanced 120v is still single phase.  The most common residential and small commercial service in Canada and the U.S., single split-phase, 240 V, features a neutral and two hot legs, 240 V to each other, and 120 V each to the neutral. Neutral wire is the return conductor of a circuit; in building wiring systems the neutral wire is connected to earth ground at least at one point. North American standards state that the neutral is neither switched nor fused except in very narrowly defined circumstances. The neutral is connected to the center tap of the power company transformer of a split-phase system.

A balanced power transformer simply lowers the voltage of each of the hot legs down to 60v rms so that you can get 120 by wiring across the 2 hot legs. While you are referencing the two hot legs to each other it is still a single phase system.

Three phase power is most commonly used in the power distribution grid because if it's increased transmission efficiency over single phase operation. End user use of three phase power is most commonly found when powering large machines or heavy duty motors because of the smoother operation and lower level of surging compared to single phase operation (would be nice for a TT motor is it wasn't  so damn expensive to bring three phase power into a home.)

Yes you are right... Sorry. This is accurate for single phase.

No apologies needed, it is a common misinterpretation.

For those who are less conversant with power grid technology, in a residential split phase system you have two hot legs (call them A & B) and a Neutral leg (which is connected to ground in your circuit breaker box. From this configuration you can get 240v across the two hot leads (for stoves, dryers, hot tubs, large air cond. units ect.) or 120 volts from either hot leg to the neutral. Although there are two hot legs, it is still only one phase (A to B, which are 180 degrees apart).
 In contrast a three phase system has three hot legs (A, B and C). Therefore you get three separate phases (120degrees apart) A to B, B to C and C to A. (You can also reference each of the hot legs to a neutral just like in the split phase system).

(Pete, as our resident commercial power expert, please correct any misstatements I may have made.)
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Offline Werd

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2015, 01:45:45 PM »
Not to mention you get 45 amps on tap. It is awesome but the cost of these transformers conditioners are in the $10k range. Too much when a balanced config can be reached with 2phase. That is all i was saying.
You want this for big massive monos blocks but its better to use 2- 20 amp balanced since you can get the thing right next to each amp. With 3phase its stuck on some wall or in another room and the amps need to reach over with long cabling. It sucks for audio imo. I can see it useful for HT.
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Offline Nick B

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2015, 04:53:10 PM »
A dealer I know in Vegas has a unit in his garage that treats all the AC as it comes into his house. It is very large...and very expensive, but his system sure sounds very, very good   :drool:
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Offline Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2015, 05:40:01 PM »
This is as close to a shill post as you can get.....

..but...

Chris Hoff at Balanced Power Technologies ("BPT") has brought his equipment to a few audio shindigs in STL and has impressed the masses with what his equipment does to the sound.

His stuff is above my paygrade, so I can't speak from experience in my system, but I've heard what it does in other guys systems and can vouch for that.

Have a nice day.
Bob

Offline satfrat

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2015, 10:06:14 PM »
Well see how we're all shillin (chillin') here, it was Chris Hoff's BP2.5 balanced power conditioner that got me motivated to a higher end audio setup. I bought my 2400 watt conditioner back in 2002 for my TV, just looking for the best possible picture for my C-band system. While the conditioner did definitely sharpen the picture, what it did for my mid-fi system back then simply blew me away. That was around 55K ago at a time when I didn't even have a computer, just Webtv.

Since that time, my conditioner has made many trips back to Chris for upgrades that are standard fare for today's BPT's.

Today I have a dedicated circuit leading to a PI Audio UltraBuss (parallel filter) and the BP2.5 balanced power conditioner plugs into that, then everything in my A/V system plugs into the BPT. Other than the BPT leading me to bankruptcy in 2010 (losing my job in 2007 also helped), I couldn't be happier with my dead quiet highly dynamic system.

And that's my BPT/UltraBuss shill that works for me.  :D

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Offline jimbones

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2015, 05:11:32 AM »
OK lets see. I found a unity from Exact Power (15 SPA). Seems to be well recieved but don't find a lot of info on it. It's priced reasonably. Anyone familiar with Excact Power?
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Offline Werd

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2015, 08:09:39 AM »
A dealer I know in Vegas has a unit in his garage that treats all the AC as it comes into his house. It is very large...and very expensive, but his system sure sounds very, very good   :drool:

I was reading up on 3 phase and pointed out was the inaccuracy of balanced signals. Balanced lines are not perfectly balanced. Slightly out of phase. Which probably means a voltage regulation is used to keep the thing in phase. But Holy sheeite how much would that treament cost? I like it though and I take it back on 3 phase. If I won the lottery that is what I would do.
Tonight i will take pics at my work and show you guys the 600volt system in the basement... Lol. Its antique but its awesome.
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Offline jtwrace

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2015, 04:26:52 PM »
(2) UberBuss' for me.

richadoo - my headphone setup was on an Uberbuss when you heard it. 

Offline Werd

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2015, 08:54:04 PM »
I should take this home  :rofl:

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Offline tmazz

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2015, 09:15:45 PM »
It may be old, but I don't think it is really antique. That is a pretty standard commercial service entrance and if you were to look a a new one that was put in a recently constructed building you would find that from a technology standpoint it would be pretty much the same as what you have there. contact switches, fuse and circuit breakers have not changed all that much over the past 50 years.
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Offline Nick B

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2015, 09:29:24 PM »
Geez...that looks like a death row device  :shock:

I should take this home  :rofl:


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Offline Werd

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2015, 09:37:49 PM »
 :rofl: Death row! 

Actually that thing has been cannibalized, nested in and submerged...lol

The panel right behind it (you can see it) powers the building. But we just had a new 600 volt 3 phase supply installed with breakers to our platform lights. It cost $3500 (i was told that price but i am skeptical)
It makes you realize how expensive audio gear is. This is it

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Offline Werd

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Re: Need a power conditioner maven
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2015, 09:40:17 PM »
Here is the sticker

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Torus RM-20 240v

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