Author Topic: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub  (Read 39643 times)

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #120 on: April 21, 2018, 10:10:10 PM »
Thanks, guys, for the information about gik. I took a look at the site and the prices are quite reasonable. Gik mentions the use of fiberglass panels, which I don’t understand as fiberglass is a hard material. We were planning to hang a 4’ x 3’ painting with a glass front between the speakers and behind the audio rack. Maybe I shouldn’t do that....

As to the reflections I’m getting off the glass panels on the left wall, I’m not sure how to proceed. I could have gik make panels, but do i want to place those panels each time I want to play music, I doubt it as I’d have to crawl over the couch to do it. When time allows, I’ll give gik a call and/or send them some pics.

Danny Ritchie did get back to me regarding the xover project. Parts would be no more than $200 plus his labor plus shipping cost. It seems very reasonable.

Nick
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 01:04:10 AM by Nick B »
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Offline richidoo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #121 on: April 22, 2018, 01:38:33 PM »
Surprising FR of stock LS50! Ouch!

A slight dip at 4k is a common voicing on speakers intended to be enjoyed more than to win the measurement contests.  But the "before" FR is a very audible dip. I'm suspicious of that being legit measurement of stock LS50. I don't believe KEF would allow that out the door.

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #122 on: April 23, 2018, 12:06:11 AM »
Thanks, guys, for the information about gik. I took a look at the site and the prices are quite reasonable. Gik mentions the use of fiberglass panels, which I don’t understand as fiberglass is a hard material. We were planning to hang a 4’ x 3’ painting with a glass front between the speakers and behind the audio rack. Maybe I shouldn’t do that....

As to the reflections I’m getting off the glass panels on the left wall, I’m not sure how to proceed. I could have gik make panels, but do i want to place those panels each time I want to play music, I doubt it as I’d have to crawl over the couch to do it. When time allows, I’ll give gik a call and/or send them some pics.

Danny Ritchie did get back to me regarding the xover project. Parts would be no more than $200 plus his labor plus shipping cost. It seems very reasonable.

Nick
nick,

from what you're saying, i surmise that the couch is to the left of the listening position, against the glass?  if so, then it might not be as bad as you think.  you may be able to get away with having only one 2' wide panel there - all you really need is to locate it where you would see the speaker's driver from the listening position if it were a mirror.  altho having two wouldn't add too much difficulty for what i'm thinking - which is: just keep the panel(s) laying on its/their side(s) behind the couch when not in use - perfect place to store it/them.  then just stand it/them up as desired.

just a thought, it really would make a big difference sonically.

re: the kef ls50 x-over project, i'm curious, (obviously, since i also have a pair of these!  :D ), did danny discuss a redesign of the x-over, or just replacing the parts w/higher quality, but not changing the original design values?  if the latter, i'd be tempted to simply have danny tell me what i need to upgrade, and buy the parts; or if he can't w/o seeing them, then just remove the x-overs and send those to him, and then have him build me new ones, or sell me the parts so i can build 'em, if the cost savings is worth it.  it seems they measure pretty well in stock form:
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=941:nrc-measurements-kef-ls50-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

but, according to a german guy, there's still room for improvement:
http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-104-26095.html
(translation; note that he did only the low-pass x-over; he didn't even upgrade the parts in the hi-pass side.)
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hifi-forum.de%2Fviewthread-104-26095.html&edit-text=

before (and pretty close to the nrc measurements, actually):



after:



more info:

(start at the top of the thread):
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/98114-kef-ls50-crossover-upgrade/?tab=comments#comment-1558581

(more foto's):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/does-anyone-have-experience-with-the-kef-ls50.646016/page-18

(another mod):
https://imgur.com/a/7Lfvs

doug s.


Doug,
Yes, the couch is right up against the glass panels and I like your idea. I may just try and install something temporarily to test it when I have time. I pretty much said a parts swap as I don’t want to run up the tab on this little experiment. I am open though to more expensive parts. Thanks for all those links. Interesting stuff....not that I understood much of the technical side of it.
Now I am curious what a dip in the 1-2k region translates to.
I will try and shoot Danny another email. There has been a family issue in California and we need to travel in a few days, so things are rushed.
Nick
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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #123 on: April 23, 2018, 04:19:40 PM »
I have all GIK panels here done about 6 months ago. Changed the whole sound of my system so work very well.
Pretty nice choices for art panels too. Mine are just burgundy in color. But the single best thing I have done for the room/system in 10 years! Beyond wires etc. etc . Unfortunately probably the last thing we think of.

I sent gik pics of my room today. How many panels were necessary and where were they placed?
Nick

Hey Doug,
Thought I’d send a followup on my forum post. Here’s a photo to show you the layout as I can’t seem to post pics on the forum. I’ll let you know what I hear from Danny. Things are a bit rushed here as my wife’s mom passed away and we’re heading to So California in a few days.  I’m gonna ask Danny if I can ship the kefs. I think I can get to it before I leave
Nick

image1.jpeg
Sent from my iPad
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 08:34:03 AM by Nick B »
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Offline P.I.

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #124 on: April 23, 2018, 09:09:01 PM »
I have all GIK panels here done about 6 months ago. Changed the whole sound of my system so work very well.
Pretty nice choices for art panels too. Mine are just burgundy in color. But the single best thing I have done for the room/system in 10 years! Beyond wires etc. etc . Unfortunately probably the last thing we think of.

I sent gik picsof my room today. How many panels were necessary and where were they placed?
Nick
Send me some pics of your room and I'll have my guy Igor (Greg Rael) look at it, too.  :thumb:
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #125 on: April 23, 2018, 09:40:44 PM »
I have all GIK panels here done about 6 months ago. Changed the whole sound of my system so work very well.
Pretty nice choices for art panels too. Mine are just burgundy in color. But the single best thing I have done for the room/system in 10 years! Beyond wires etc. etc . Unfortunately probably the last thing we think of.

I sent gik picsof my room today. How many panels were necessary and where were they placed?
Nick
Send me some pics of your room and I'll have my guy Igor (Greg Rael) look at it, too.  :thumb:

I appreciate that, Dave. Email with pics sent.
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
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Audio Envy p cords
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Offline rollo

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #126 on: April 24, 2018, 08:12:06 AM »
Recently as per Daves request I consulted with Greg. Quite happy I did. The guy knows his stuff. Bought four diffusor panels installed them and now have much better sound. Amazing difference.

I believe Dave designed them and Greg now sells them.


charles
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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #127 on: April 24, 2018, 11:32:54 AM »
I received a couple of emails from members....thank you....regarding my acoustic issues and it’s a bit of a problem.
My listening environment is “scrunched” on the left side if my living room AND I have those four glass panels on the left side wall. So there aint no easy fix.... One consensus is to at least to put a panel behind the audio rack. My thought also is maybe to put a couple of hooks up on the left side wall and cover the glass with a cheap drape when I listen.
Or.....I could move everything to a completely symmetrical side wall, but that is a side where foot traffic is and it’s not doable if I add one or more subs.
So there you have it...the perils of not having unlimited space and money....
Nick
PS haven’t heard back from gik yet
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Offline dBe

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #128 on: April 24, 2018, 12:44:06 PM »
I received a couple of emails from members....thank you....regarding my acoustic issues and it’s a bit of a problem.
My listening environment is “scrunched” on the left side if my living room AND I have those four glass panels on the left side wall. So there aint no easy fix.... One consensus is to at least to put a panel behind the audio rack. My thought also is maybe to put a couple of hooks up on the left side wall and cover the glass with a cheap drape when I listen.
Or.....I could move everything to a completely symmetrical side wall, but that is a side where foot traffic is and it’s not doable if I add one or more subs.
So there you have it...the perils of not having unlimited space and money....
Nick
PS haven’t heard back from gik yet
Remember that you don't have to have the subs next to the speakers.  You can go to a swarm approach... it works well and helps to even out LF room response.  Even with only two subs it is a decent alternative.  The side wall is your best alternative for great imaging and soundstage.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0812/distributed_bass.htm
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 01:01:42 PM by Nick B »

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #129 on: April 25, 2018, 11:39:52 PM »
I received a couple of emails from members....thank you....regarding my acoustic issues and it’s a bit of a problem.
My listening environment is “scrunched” on the left side if my living room AND I have those four glass panels on the left side wall. So there aint no easy fix.... One consensus is to at least to put a panel behind the audio rack. My thought also is maybe to put a couple of hooks up on the left side wall and cover the glass with a cheap drape when I listen.
Or.....I could move everything to a completely symmetrical side wall, but that is a side where foot traffic is and it’s not doable if I add one or more subs.
So there you have it...the perils of not having unlimited space and money....
Nick
PS haven’t heard back from gik yet
Remember that you don't have to have the subs next to the speakers.  You can go to a swarm approach... it works well and helps to even out LF room response.  Even with only two subs it is a decent alternative.  The side wall is your best alternative for great imaging and soundstage.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0812/distributed_bass.htm

I actually put a deposit on two small subs ..... starts with “r” and ends with “l” , but the seller backed out and wants to keep them. It’s just as well with so many things going on here. I am trying to educate myself with basic acoustics, sub placement etc. Those LS 50s are really starting to grow on me  :thumb:
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
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JMR Voce Grande speakers
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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #130 on: April 25, 2018, 11:48:39 PM »
my li'l mock-up suggestion as to where the panels should go.  while curtains over the glass would be great, i don't think the glass is at the first reflection point from the main listening position, which i suspect is from the brown lounge chair.  if the first reflection point is in fact at the glass, i suggested that the panels simply be stored sideways behind the couch and tilted up for when listening.


doug s.

We’re heading out of town and then I’ll test placement of panels, etc. Dave also had a friend of his contact me to help figure it out.
On another note, I looked at the kef manual again and with my current speaker placement, they suggested removing the small foam plug in the center of the larger foam plug. I did and had a very nice improvement. These are really sounding sweet and I can understand why you so enjoy them.
They now resolve beautifully and I’m enjoying the midrange more. Gary also made me a believer re turning the fridge off for listening.
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JMR Voce Grande speakers
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Audio Envy p cords
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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #131 on: April 29, 2018, 08:46:36 AM »
I received a couple of emails from members....thank you....regarding my acoustic issues and it’s a bit of a problem.
My listening environment is “scrunched” on the left side if my living room AND I have those four glass panels on the left side wall. So there aint no easy fix.... One consensus is to at least to put a panel behind the audio rack. My thought also is maybe to put a couple of hooks up on the left side wall and cover the glass with a cheap drape when I listen.
Or.....I could move everything to a completely symmetrical side wall, but that is a side where foot traffic is and it’s not doable if I add one or more subs.
So there you have it...the perils of not having unlimited space and money....
Nick
PS haven’t heard back from gik yet
Remember that you don't have to have the subs next to the speakers.  You can go to a swarm approach... it works well and helps to even out LF room response.  Even with only two subs it is a decent alternative.  The side wall is your best alternative for great imaging and soundstage.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0812/distributed_bass.htm

I actually put a deposit on two small subs ..... starts with “r” and ends with “l” , but the seller backed out and wants to keep them. It’s just as well with so many things going on here. I am trying to educate myself with basic acoustics, sub placement etc. Those LS 50s are really starting to grow on me  :thumb:

Well, the deal on the subs fell through due to sellers remorse and that’s ok. There’s always another product or deal that comes along at the appropriate time......
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #132 on: April 29, 2018, 09:12:41 AM »
I actually put a deposit on two small subs ..... starts with “r” and ends with “l” , but the seller backed out and wants to keep them. It’s just as well with so many things going on here. I am trying to educate myself with basic acoustics, sub placement etc. Those LS 50s are really starting to grow on me  :thumb:
Well, the deal on the subs fell through due to sellers remorse and that’s ok. There’s always another product or deal that comes along at the appropriate time......

well, unless you were going to get them at 33% of retail or less, consider yourself lucky.  ;)

doug s.

No, sir. Wasn’t at 33% 😀 Doug, I know you’re an advocate of “abr”.....anything but REL. But there are a few things that make me like them. The small footprint, the speakon connectors and the ability to place them conveniently. I don’t know of another sub manufacturer who uses speakons.
Having read up a bit on sub placement and the “subwoofer crawl” , I don’t have the ability to put  them wherever the sound would be optimized. Making my wife happy is a big part of ghe equation too.

It’s interesting that the LS 50s continue to improve. Whether that’s tweaking as to placement or playing with the foam plugs or something else, I don’t know. But as I recall, these KEFs were used in a second system and I wonder if they were ever completely broken in. The seller is moving.....or has already moved.... overseas, so I’ll never know
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JMR Voce Grande speakers
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Audio Envy p cords
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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #133 on: May 11, 2018, 10:54:42 PM »
Still looking into subs. Was looking at Dannys 12” kit and waiting for a guy to contact me and give a quote to build the cabinet. It appears best performance is between a 1.5 to 1.8 cu ft enclosure. Does anyone know if making it smaller will simply lessen the performance from maybe 18 hz to say 24 hz?
I presume it will screw up the performance, but just wanted to ask. The F12 Rythmik is too big. L12 not too bad as to size....and money.
Another question is what is the effect of having to use a splitter for the line connection?
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
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Hapa Aero digital coax
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Audio Envy p cords
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Offline Nick B

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Re: want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub
« Reply #134 on: May 11, 2018, 11:10:43 PM »
I have all GIK panels here done about 6 months ago. Changed the whole sound of my system so work very well.
Pretty nice choices for art panels too. Mine are just burgundy in color. But the single best thing I have done for the room/system in 10 years! Beyond wires etc. etc . Unfortunately probably the last thing we think of.

Never heard back from the GIK guys..... guess they have enough sales.
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS