Author Topic: New house  (Read 10747 times)

canyoneagle

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New house
« on: June 11, 2008, 06:35:57 AM »
After much consideration, we've decided to stay in the Salk Lake Valley, and are building a home (a 'triplex' condo) that will have a finished basement.
The dimensions of the room (which can't be easily changed since this is a spec builder - I've tried) are 13'6" x 16'3" with an 8' ceiling.  the room is essentially a box with about 7' open along the rear portion of one of the 13' walls.
I'm planning to fully treat the room, and am inclined to set the system up on the long wall.
I've run the modecalc on the room and it doesn't look to bad.  The main issue is the complimentary dimensions of the long wall and the ceiling, but no ridiculous low-frequency peaks.

The common wall with the neighbor will be double-insulated walls with airspace in between (the models had buildt-in sound systems, and we could BARELY hear the music next door when fully turned up) but I am considering installing something a little denser in lieu of the standard insulation.  Any ideas?
Power is not an issue since I'm mostly battery-powered.
Any other bits of advice for my planning?  the place should be done by the end of October, so I have some time to plan.

Warmly,
Michael

Offline bpape

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Re: New house
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2008, 06:49:39 AM »
Quite honestly, denser insulation in the cavities of the walls will make little to no difference.  It would be a good idea to fully fill the cavity of the wall AND the space between them.  That will make more difference than something denser.  Also, you might consider using double drywall and green glue to lower the resonant frequency of your wall. 

It will also make it even less likely to transmit sound and provide a different resonant frequency than his wall so they can't both ring in sympathy. Doing this will give your wall one resonance, his wall one resonance, and the cavity between a third resonance - a good thing. 

You also will want to look at how the structural members are shared between the spaces and how your walls/ceiling tie to those.

Bryan
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canyoneagle

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Re: New house
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 06:57:52 AM »
Great tips (as usual) 8), Bryan.

I'll see if I can swing a second layer of drywall.  I'm not familiar with Green glue - is it applied like a plaster on the finished surface, or used as a backing between the layers of drywall?

Offline Carlman

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Re: New house
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 10:41:02 AM »
Green glue comes in 24oz tubes, like caulk.  You put 2 or 3 tubes per sheet of sheetrock, press and stick.

Keep in mind when you add a layer of sheetrock, it will change the door and window trim requirements.  In a spec home, that will be tough to finagle.  I was on good terms with my builder and he was willing to make the trim flush with wall but was concerned at how it would look... and it was 'my house' so he'd do whatever... but he wasn't able to re-order doors that could accomodate thicker walls.  If the wall has no trim, there shouldn't be any problem.  You could even show up the day they're doing it with green glue and have the workers put up another layer and get away with it for next-to-nothing.  (I found cash and beer to be persuasive for my 'custom requirements')

The key to your house is to help manage it without the builder knowing it.  Let him be in charge and only suggest things when they're really wrong.. and don't try to beat the guy up unless he's being a complete tool.  Stick to your guns about what you want for sure.. but being a friend and using common sense got me lots of leeway for doing what I wanted during the build... and after.  I'm still on good terms with my builder and salesperson... and that has helped me feel great about the whole situation... even if I did pay too much.. ha.

A lot of people use scare tactics and try to be an ashole to get their way.. and with some builders that's what you have to do.  If you're smart you can get what you want in a lot less stressful way... and everyone feels like they came away winning.

Simple stuff I wish I knew... Where the main water comes into your house is important.  If it goes straight through the middle of your front yard, then enters your house under the sidewalk, that doesn't leave you much option for adding an irrigation system... Our check valve is in the middle of our front yard.  Also, you can tell them where to put the spigots... and pay on the spot to add another one if you want 3 or 4..

I got lucky on power.. It enters the house about 10' from where I plug in my amp. :)

Be there when they're doing anything you care about.  The electrician wires based on his convenience at the moment, not with thought as to how you'll use the house.  Boxes get put too far from the door, switches are wired all sorts of ways... and they're just retarded with placement a lot of times.

Plumbing inside the house was fine with me.  I hired the same plumber to do the basement bathroom.  I wouldn't let the electrician back into my house to do work if he paid me.

Sound proofing is very, very difficult to get right in the real world... especially if you're dealing with a builder that has a formula to build that house.  Sometimes you can change things a bit but sometimes you can't... it may not work with the plan.  Best of luck adding sheetrock during a build... or anything like that.

I'd recommend running all of your speaker wires (cl3 or better rated in-wall wire) prior to move-in.  Know your local code if you do anything... so you don't slow down the progress or get your wrist slapped.  This is your builder's house until you pay for it.  But it's really your house so you have to balance this stuff... hence the reason I suggested building a relationship with your builder.

OK.. back to work.. I could go on all day (obviously) ;) ...

Well, one more thought... pay extra for a good HVAC system.  Get the Lennox Signature series.  Do a 'custom request' and at least get a quote.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 10:43:52 AM by Carlman »
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline bpape

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Re: New house
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 10:52:27 AM »
Just for clarity, Green Glue really isn't 'glue' per se.  It's a visco-elastic damping layer.  You still have to screw the 2nd layer through the first and into the studs.

Running speakers wires in advance is a good thing provided you use conduit and can compensate for any isolation issues. 

Bryan
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Offline Carlman

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Re: New house
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2008, 11:25:36 AM »
Oops... didn't mean to imply that you just slapped up the drywall.. thanks for the clarification. 

Our code doesn't require conduit for any wires inside the house... The jacket of the wire is the conduit... So, drilling holes, running the cable, stapling it down, and sealing the holes are all that is required for low or high voltage wire here.  If I'd run conduit piping, it would've stuck out like a sore thumb.  (check your local code)

Belden makes great in-wall cable that I'm very pleased with for outdoor speakers, inwall/inceiling, etc. and it wasn't very expensive.

-C
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 12:36:24 PM by Carlman »
I really enjoy listening to music.

canyoneagle

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Re: New house
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2008, 03:00:54 PM »
Thanks for the tips!
I've thought about drilling the studs and pulling wire, but mainly for convenience in my upstairs (second) system which will most likely be bracket-mounted speakers.

I'll check in on the second layer of drywall.  It shouldn't be a huge issue.  Of course, I can always add it later, but paint matching and texture matching become issues.

I DEFINITELY plan to be at the site every day during the construction.  I'm a Project Management consultant by profession, so I eat this stuff up, and plan to build a good rapport with my superintendent.  I agree that I can very likely get most of my needs met by fostering a good relationship there!

More to come,
Michael

Offline bpape

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Re: New house
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2008, 07:15:25 PM »
The conduit was not recommended for code reasons - but to allow you to change/add wire later if desired once the drywall is up. 

Bryan
I am serious... and don't call me Shirley

Offline bpape

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Re: New house
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2008, 04:05:35 AM »
Oops... didn't mean to imply that you just slapped up the drywall.. thanks for the clarification. 

-C


I know you understand that but you'd be amazed how many people ask about it.  They figure that since it's a 'glue' they don't have to. 

Bryan
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Offline Carlman

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Re: New house
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2008, 07:16:53 AM »
The conduit was not recommended for code reasons - but to allow you to change/add wire later if desired once the drywall is up. 

Bryan

Good point! One thing Rich recommended to me was conduit between floors in an easy-to-get-to spot.. so, if you wanted to run cables from upstairs to down.. or into the crawlspace or basement, you'd have a straight shot... It was a great idea but I wasn't there in time to get that done.  You'll need to do that before electrical goes in.

One other thing.. your builder will probably already do this.. but get a list of what happens in what order.  (foundation, frame, plumbing, electrical, insulation, sheetrock, trim, cabinetry, etc.)  I wouldn't worry about time estimates.. they'll change... but knowing the order helps plan what to look for.... Are those the right options, doors, tubs, sinks, fixtures, knobs, etc...  They put the wrong staircase in our house.. so, you just have to stay aware... and if something doesn't look right to you, it probably isn't... but they may fix it.. and knowing the process helps you from asking annoying questions about some of it.

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline richidoo

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Re: New house
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2008, 09:33:53 AM »
If you request an attic to crawl conduit pipe, specify that it is 3" PVC, which is largest that will fit in a wall. They will hopefully be able to find an interior uninsulated wall to put it in. Chasing wire through a narrow pipe is a pain. There should be a string installed so you can pull things up and down, but you can do that yourself later - IF it is a straight vertical run. If there is a jog or angle, get them to run the chase string.

You also need a conduit pipe coming into the wiring can where your security and telephone stuff is. You don't want the 3" pipe coming intersecting the can, but you do need an easy way to fish wires into and out of the can, probably coming up from the crawl/basement. You may be able to request a larger can if you intend to put more networking or security electronics in there than the standard issue.

If you purchase any inwall speaker wiring, be sure to test it all before closing. I have repaired several of my neighbors' speaker wires which had sawzall damage. For the price they charge for shit 16/2 wire, you can install much better wire yourself and firecaulk it through the floors if they will let you. Mine wouldn't let me but I did it anyway just for the main HT area surrounds.


canyoneagle

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Re: New house
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2008, 12:02:24 PM »
Great tips.  I'm a big fan of conduit, and will see what my options are with this builder.

As it is the second layer of drywall may be an after-hours exercise that I will do one evening, hoping that the laborers don't point out the double-layers that are visible at all of the cutouts   :-P
We'll see.  I hope to meet the superintendent soon, and will begin the process.

I may try to string some wire and/or install some conduit as well.  We'll see........

Offline bpape

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Re: New house
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2008, 12:30:14 PM »
Well, they'll kinda have to be aware of it since all your switches, outlets, doors, window sills, etc. all have to account for the extra thickness. 

Switches and outlets are relatively easy if you use adjustable boxes available from HD/Lowes/etc.  Doors and windows are another story - not to mention any can lights that you have to make sure the trim rings will reach the extra distance properly.

Bryan
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canyoneagle

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Re: New house
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2008, 08:27:23 AM »
Fortunately, the only cutouts on the common wall will be for electrical outlets, and I plan to have the boxes set properly to accommodate the thicker wall.
Are you recommending that the entire room be double-layered?

Offline bpape

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Re: New house
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2008, 09:31:46 AM »
If you don't do it all, there isn't much point.  Also, ANY holes in the walls (if you want isolation) need to be boxed in behind with 3/4" MDF and only the hole for the romex remaining to enter and that is caulked.

If you skip this, then there's really no point in the double drywall as the plastic box won't do diddly to stop sound.

A famous man once said - "Isolating a room is like an aquarium.  If there's a hole in it, doesn't matter how big or where, you're GOING to get wet..."

Bryan
I am serious... and don't call me Shirley