Author Topic: State of the Art Power-Conditioner  (Read 14225 times)

Offline dBe

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2018, 07:59:03 PM »
Pricing stuff can be very tricky, especially for a small shop because you have to set prices that will not only cover your costs of doing business right now, but also provide you with enough cash flow to continue to run the business if it becomes successful, Because if you price your product too low you will have a hard time going back and getting customers to accept a price hike later on. And if you price to high you will drive away potential customers. It's quite a balancing act.
PREACH IT, Brother.   :thumb:

Ain't easy being a small fish in a pond full of piranas that are too cheap to pay for quality hardware.  That is why the "high end" market is so different.  We want the best value for the dollar and they want the latest and greatest.  Human psyche at its most interesting.
[/

  ANSWER YOUR PMS you you thats what you are. I need diffussors  Tell me about trying being a dealer.

charles
Forwarded to Greg (Igor).  He owns that company now.  All I did was design them and bring them to market 25 years ago.

Offline rollo

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2018, 08:11:07 AM »
   Thank you Dave. Did not know thought it was your gig. 


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline rollo

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner ????
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2018, 08:12:43 AM »
  I should have put question marks after the Subject. I will have one shortly and find out how good it is.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline tmazz

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner ????
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2018, 12:58:43 PM »
  I should have put question marks after the Subject. I will have one shortly and find out how good it is.


charles


As always, anything can look good (or bad) on paper, but the proof is always in the listening.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 01:00:42 PM by tmazz »
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline dBe

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2018, 07:48:39 PM »
   Thank you Dave. Did not know thought it was your gig. 


charles
No worries. It was for a long time until I couldn't juggle 3 in front and 2 behind my back.  Igor will be back to you soon.

Offline TrueAudio

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2018, 12:43:16 PM »
Try this one on for size:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8je87-smc-audio-nexus-ac-and-grounding-filter-ac-conditioners



Asking Price: $15,000.00
New Retail Price: $20,000.00

"This is the actual Michael Fremer June 2018 Stereophile review unit just returned.

This unit is built to an absolutely cost-no-object standard. It is only sold direct to client to avoid the usual distribution markups. One look at the build, and it is evident this unit is in a class of one. However, it is the total system sonic contribution and star grounding solution it represents which belongs in the best systems.

Even a cursory examination of the Nexus vs interconnects and speaker cables, (many of which cost more for one meter that the Nexus) should elicit a big question. How can the cables justify the price? The obvious answer -- they cannot. Where is the value proposition for the audiophile -- in the Nexus.

To wit:

1. Panzerholtz (Tankwood) rigid, inert, milled chassis

2. Bocchino Mariner 10 IEC connector (the world standard for sonics 10x the cost
conventional audiophile IEC's). 125 amp ready. Absolutely no current limiting. No current
limiting coils and transformers are used. Purely passive filtration via the worlds best
capacitors, Duelund CAST silver.

3. Stillpoints are integrated into the bottom of the chassis and Stillpoint isolators are used to isolate each duplex outlet.

4. Furutech outlets GTX-NCF Rhodium outlets, aluminum mounting plates and carbon
fiber dress plates

5. Enklein pure silver wiring

6. Cardas un-plated copper grounding posts

7. Pure copper buss bar internal construction

No trades. Local demo is encouraged."

Offline Nick B

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2018, 01:03:09 PM »
Try this one on for size:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8je87-smc-audio-nexus-ac-and-grounding-filter-ac-conditioners



Asking Price: $15,000.00
New Retail Price: $20,000.00

"This is the actual Michael Fremer June 2018 Stereophile review unit just returned.

This unit is built to an absolutely cost-no-object standard. It is only sold direct to client to avoid the usual distribution markups. One look at the build, and it is evident this unit is in a class of one. However, it is the total system sonic contribution and star grounding solution it represents which belongs in the best systems.

Even a cursory examination of the Nexus vs interconnects and speaker cables, (many of which cost more for one meter that the Nexus) should elicit a big question. How can the cables justify the price? The obvious answer -- they cannot. Where is the value proposition for the audiophile -- in the Nexus.

To wit:

1. Panzerholtz (Tankwood) rigid, inert, milled chassis

2. Bocchino Mariner 10 IEC connector (the world standard for sonics 10x the cost
conventional audiophile IEC's). 125 amp ready. Absolutely no current limiting. No current
limiting coils and transformers are used. Purely passive filtration via the worlds best
capacitors, Duelund CAST silver.

3. Stillpoints are integrated into the bottom of the chassis and Stillpoint isolators are used to isolate each duplex outlet.

4. Furutech outlets GTX-NCF Rhodium outlets, aluminum mounting plates and carbon
fiber dress plates

5. Enklein pure silver wiring

6. Cardas un-plated copper grounding posts

7. Pure copper buss bar internal construction

No trades. Local demo is encouraged."


Ummm....I’ll take whatever Dave is selling  :thumb:
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline P.I.

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2018, 08:54:46 PM »
Try this one on for size:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8je87-smc-audio-nexus-ac-and-grounding-filter-ac-conditioners



Asking Price: $15,000.00
New Retail Price: $20,000.00

"This is the actual Michael Fremer June 2018 Stereophile review unit just returned.

This unit is built to an absolutely cost-no-object standard. It is only sold direct to client to avoid the usual distribution markups. One look at the build, and it is evident this unit is in a class of one. However, it is the total system sonic contribution and star grounding solution it represents which belongs in the best systems.

Even a cursory examination of the Nexus vs interconnects and speaker cables, (many of which cost more for one meter that the Nexus) should elicit a big question. How can the cables justify the price? The obvious answer -- they cannot. Where is the value proposition for the audiophile -- in the Nexus.

To wit:

1. Panzerholtz (Tankwood) rigid, inert, milled chassis

2. Bocchino Mariner 10 IEC connector (the world standard for sonics 10x the cost
conventional audiophile IEC's). 125 amp ready. Absolutely no current limiting. No current
limiting coils and transformers are used. Purely passive filtration via the worlds best
capacitors, Duelund CAST silver.

3. Stillpoints are integrated into the bottom of the chassis and Stillpoint isolators are used to isolate each duplex outlet.

4. Furutech outlets GTX-NCF Rhodium outlets, aluminum mounting plates and carbon
fiber dress plates

5. Enklein pure silver wiring

6. Cardas un-plated copper grounding posts

7. Pure copper buss bar internal construction

No trades. Local demo is encouraged."


Ummm....I’ll take whatever Dave is selling  :thumb:
Nick, I'll build you something much, much better with at least as good of components for half of that money.  There are certain components that are built just because they can be that crush the performance to cost window.  Just because something can be built doesn't mean that it should be.
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline Nick B

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2018, 08:15:51 AM »
Try this one on for size:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8je87-smc-audio-nexus-ac-and-grounding-filter-ac-conditioners



Asking Price: $15,000.00
New Retail Price: $20,000.00

"This is the actual Michael Fremer June 2018 Stereophile review unit just returned.

This unit is built to an absolutely cost-no-object standard. It is only sold direct to client to avoid the usual distribution markups. One look at the build, and it is evident this unit is in a class of one. However, it is the total system sonic contribution and star grounding solution it represents which belongs in the best systems.

Even a cursory examination of the Nexus vs interconnects and speaker cables, (many of which cost more for one meter that the Nexus) should elicit a big question. How can the cables justify the price? The obvious answer -- they cannot. Where is the value proposition for the audiophile -- in the Nexus.

To wit:

1. Panzerholtz (Tankwood) rigid, inert, milled chassis

2. Bocchino Mariner 10 IEC connector (the world standard for sonics 10x the cost
conventional audiophile IEC's). 125 amp ready. Absolutely no current limiting. No current
limiting coils and transformers are used. Purely passive filtration via the worlds best
capacitors, Duelund CAST silver.

3. Stillpoints are integrated into the bottom of the chassis and Stillpoint isolators are used to isolate each duplex outlet.

4. Furutech outlets GTX-NCF Rhodium outlets, aluminum mounting plates and carbon
fiber dress plates

5. Enklein pure silver wiring

6. Cardas un-plated copper grounding posts

7. Pure copper buss bar internal construction

No trades. Local demo is encouraged."


Ummm....I’ll take whatever Dave is selling  :thumb:
Nick, I'll build you something much, much better with at least as good of components for half of that money.  There are certain components that are built just because they can be that crush the performance to cost window.  Just because something can be built doesn't mean that it should be.

Dave,
I’m happy with the Uber and will likely try your latest product one of these days. Anything beyond that isn’t necessary and isn’t in my budget. I do need a preamp soon, so am saving up for that
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline P.I.

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2018, 09:15:27 AM »
Nick, I made my reply based upon my observation that price beyond a certain point is more of an exercise in self than performance.  I don't live in that world.
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline Nick B

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2018, 12:39:25 PM »
Nick, I made my reply based upon my observation that price beyond a certain point is more of an exercise in self than performance.  I don't live in that world.

Dave,
I figured as much and was kind of thinking out loud. I’m amazed at the performance of products like my used kef LS 50s for $750 and all of Gary’s reasonably priced cables. I suspect that Tom’s icepower 1200as amp will fall into that category as well. I sure hope you’re enjoying your trip as I’m overwhelmed by cement dust as the living room concrete pad was cracked and buckled and needed grinding. It’s even worse than I imagined it could be and I have a very vivid imagination  :roll:
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline P.I.

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2018, 05:10:05 PM »
Nick, I made my reply based upon my observation that price beyond a certain point is more of an exercise in self than performance.  I don't live in that world.

Dave,
I figured as much and was kind of thinking out loud. I’m amazed at the performance of products like my used kef LS 50s for $750 and all of Gary’s reasonably priced cables. I suspect that Tom’s icepower 1200as amp will fall into that category as well. I sure hope you’re enjoying your trip as I’m overwhelmed by cement dust as the living room concrete pad was cracked and buckled and needed grinding. It’s even worse than I imagined it could be and I have a very vivid imagination  :roll:
Nick
Ooooohhhhhhhhhhh! Bummer!  Did they leave dust filters that run continuously?

Sorry for your inconvenience.   :roll:
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline Nick B

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2018, 05:55:32 PM »
Nick, I made my reply based upon my observation that price beyond a certain point is more of an exercise in self than performance.  I don't live in that world.

Dave,
I figured as much and was kind of thinking out loud. I’m amazed at the performance of products like my used kef LS 50s for $750 and all of Gary’s reasonably priced cables. I suspect that Tom’s icepower 1200as amp will fall into that category as well. I sure hope you’re enjoying your trip as I’m overwhelmed by cement dust as the living room concrete pad was cracked and buckled and needed grinding. It’s even worse than I imagined it could be and I have a very vivid imagination  :roll:
Nick
Ooooohhhhhhhhhhh! Bummer!  Did they leave dust filters that run continuously?

Sorry for your inconvenience.   :roll:

Dust filters....dust filters....we don’t need no stinkin’ dust filters.... Actually, they tried taping light drop cloth to the walls, but the AC created a bit of a vacuum and some of the drop cloth loosened. I cut a few slits and no more vacuum. It’s really tough finding somebody decent in these parts. Quite a housing boom again in so Utah.  :-({|=
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline rollo

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2018, 08:46:59 AM »
The fanciest looking totally average power conditioner I've ever seen. It probably sounds ok. It's just an over-glorified regular rendition of a Felix.

 We have recently compared the Felix which for the money is OK to the Gigawatt PC-2 with optional DC blocker and Felix belongs in the garbage pail. We now sell Gigawatt products as well as our loved conditioner UBERBUSS.
 Different beasts with different sonic attributes and features and pricing. We use the Ubers on the amps and GigaWatt for front end. With the mono blocks drawing serious amperage the Ubers do not loose any dynamics or thin out. We also can use a dedicated line for each mono block with dedicated Uber cleaning. We use three dedicated lines. Two for amps, one for front end.
 It really depends on your components and their draw. Our demo systems have NEVER sounded better with this combo.


charles




« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 09:02:38 AM by rollo »
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline Folsom

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Re: State of the Art Power-Conditioner
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2018, 11:03:25 AM »
I fail to see how using the same basic topology gave you good and bad results. I'd have to know some details.

Dynamics have to see voltage sag to actually "go away". (it's not a function of current) So if you are getting sag, you probably have something undersized.