Author Topic: I got your power, Right Here.  (Read 13772 times)

Offline Carlman

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2016, 04:49:15 PM »
More is better. I've yet to have that not be the case.
I bought a fairly neutral/leaning to warm sounding 400 wpc amp so I wouldn't have to buy another, ever.
That's been the case for the last 8 or 9 years.
It took away the question I kept having: "will there be synergy between this particular amp and these speakers?" (Because, yes)  :lol:

If you like the Luxman's sound, the Legacy's will probably reveal it well.

If it's not enough power, it'll sound a little too thin or have flabby bass. At that point you'll have to decide about the amp. Unfortunately you won't know till you hear it.




I really enjoy listening to music.

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Offline sonicxtc

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2016, 06:23:08 AM »
Quote
More is better. I've yet to have that not be the case.
I bought a fairly neutral/leaning to warm sounding 400 wpc amp so I wouldn't have to buy another, ever.
That's been the case for the last 8 or 9 years.

I'm inclined to agree and I've been there and done that twice, once with beefy tube monoblocks and now with NCores. With the likely exceptions of running extremely efficient speakers (98 db or better) or efficient single driver full range speakers or trying to tailor your speakers with a certain tube sound, e.g. SET, more power is better in most cases. And, as Carlman wrote, it removes the variable of wondering if you have enough power--"Am I really hearing what these speakers can do?" 

As someone who grew to appreciate tubes and lived with them for years, I must say that the clarity, neutrality, dynamics and sheer oomph of the NCores is great.

Good luck in the journey.

Offline James Edward

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2016, 09:07:57 AM »
It seems as though this topic has been decided, but in my case, I had also thought that more is better, and I usually like my music on the louder side of 90db.
I've had the Moscode 402- 200wpc, NAD Masters M3- 180wpc, Bryston 4BSST2- 300wpc, CJ don't remember model/power, etc., etc.
I was about to pull the trigger on some 1000wpc Red Dragon amps, figuring I'd up the power ante significantly. For reasons still murky in my mind, I went the other way- the class A 30wpc Luxman L-590AX Mk.2.
Every type of music sounds better. It does classical, rock, jazz, new wave, and folk more convincingly than I've ever heard in my room. And if the meters are correct, I've not yet gone into the red; not even close.
Different speakers, amps, preamps, and cd players have come and gone, but the current setup is by far my favorite. I keep expecting I'll come upon a compromise, but it hasn't happened 2 months in.
All I'm saying is you might want to give a class A amp a go in your system. You might be surprised.
As we all say, your mileage may vary.
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Offline _Scotty_

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2016, 11:38:16 AM »
I have been using a re-engineered class AB Superphon DM 220 for about the last seven years. Stan Warren revisited his old design using 20/20 hindsight and it now has vintage copper cased TO-3 Motorola bi-polar output transistors among other things changed or upgraded.
 About 108w/8ohms and 180w/4 ohms. With 95dB sensitivity loudspeakers, I haven't run out of power yet. Ironically I probably listen at about 75dB to 80dB average, peaks are another matter.
 Watching block buster movies is where the system usually gets asked to do stupid things, explosions, gunfire and bass effects gratuitously added to soundtracks are hair raising. Fun but scary, you are always wondering, crap is something going to break.
 Even though power is cheap now a days, if you can get higher sensitivity speakers this seems to be the way to go to me. Way less dynamic compression and lower THD and IM contributed by the speaker.
Scotty

Offline tmazz

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2016, 11:51:42 AM »
Yes but then again high sensitivity speakers also magnify any kind of noise that may be in your system so the electronics that you use to push them as well as all of your connections and cables need to be that much quieter. As with everything else in this hobby, nothing for nothing. Each time you do something to improve one thing it tends to open you up for issues in other areas. Hence the whole issue of synergy. Every type of equipment has its advantages and drawbacks and the trick is to find combinations that accentuate the pluses while minimizing the effects of the minuses. And not the least of the variables is the acoustic properties of the space we need to work with. Many different ways optimize things, which is why we all end up with such diverse systems
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline _Scotty_

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2016, 01:06:24 PM »
You certainly have to have your ducks in a row to use speakers with higher sensitivity.
 If you have legacy equipment with less than a 90dB S/N ratio A weighted, then you may have a problem. Likewise if your TT doesn't have very good rumble figures and resistance to structure borne as well as acoustic feedback then high sensitivity speakers which also plumb the depths in the bass region may cause you big headaches.
 You have to approach system building in an organized fashion while being full cognizant of potential problems. Using a ill-considered haphazard approach and trusting to dumb luck to beat Murphy seldom works.
Scotty

Offline tmazz

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2016, 12:44:08 PM »
Like everything else what you are looking at here is yet another compromise. Good watts are expensive. Big watts are expensive and goo big watts are really expensive. So what it boils down to is an asset allocation exercise.  For a given budget  you can have better power, larger power or choose to dedicate a bigger piece of your budget tot he power amp and have bigger and better power, but less money to spend on other things, stereo or otherwise.

And while I agree with Carl that for the most part more watts is better than less. And lets face it, we can always get bigger and better by throwing money at the problem, but the reality of the situation is that most of us here have a finite amount of money to dedicate to this hobby and the trick is to figure out, given our musical tastes, our equipment preferences and the acoustic properties of our listening spaces, how much quality can we get (or maybe better stated how much money can we spend) before an increase in the cost of one component will lead to an overall decrease in the SQ of the system because we will need to dial back what we can spend on other components.  And ultimately what is the balance of quality and spending across all of the components that will maximize the overall musical enjoyment of the system.

This of course is a complex multi-variable analysis with many different possibilities, which one of the reason why this hobby can get so consuming and why we end up with such widely varying yet all good sounding systems.
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline Carlman

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2016, 01:56:00 PM »
I wish this forum had a thumbs-up button.
Thanks for the thoughtful thoughts on the amp subject. :)
👍
 :thumb:
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline dflee

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2016, 10:11:08 AM »
Thought I'd throw this in with all the great things put in this subject. Long story short the Coda came back with problems (money not really well spent) and for what I had I got an Odyssey Khartago with more and better caps, connections and wiring. I do like it except the issue of oomph has reared it's ugly little head. I have tried everything I can to get the bass to increase, it''s there and does sound like it can get it right but it is anemic. Had to push the (heaven forbid) loudness button and bam, it's there (maybe more than I want it to be) but not near as tight as I had in the past. Don't get me wrong the Khart is a good sounding amp, very clean and really inner sound on plucked instruments but can't create the earth shattering bottom end on the Legacy Classics I'm used to. So in the words of sir Elton "where to now Saint Peter".
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Offline richidoo

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2016, 03:43:13 PM »
Too bad about the Coda.  :(  Sounds like they changed the output transistors if the sound changed that much. Original parts maybe obsolete.

Class D is good for bass control, and detail, slam, due to very low output impedance. Always liked them on my Legacys, NuForce, Spectron, etc. Maybe Khart not so great impedance, maybe the mods messed up the output impedance? Audiophile brands tend toward detail anyway. OK if the bass still good. McIntosh autoformer amps have great balls and neutral tone, slightly less incisive than audiophile hotrod amps but much more musical like Coda. Look for MC250-MC450 and similar. They aren't cheap, but good bass.

Nord NC500 amp is a Hypex N-Core 500W at a good price. Pair came to my house last G2G, they really kicked ass. I didn't get a chance to listen to refinement, it was a loud rock song, but I didn't notice any problem. Bass was excellent.
http://www.iqspeakers.co.uk/hypex-amps

DAC Cherry stereo amp seemed a bit bottom-heavy when I auditioned it, and very smooth, musical, wonderful sound! Not typical old style edgy class D sound. I couldn't judge the slam on those horn speakers, but it was definitely bass heavy, which the speakers really needed. People really seem to like the new DAC amps.

If you use computer for playback you could add some bass EQ with effect plugin. But it won't help the softness.

Offline rollo

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2016, 08:07:06 AM »
  If it were me I would go for more power. Do you have a budget for a new amp ?
   For SS Parasound comes to mind. Most high powered tube Amps cost big money so maybe a stretch. CJ, VTL, AR all can be good but cost. Then there is Hybrid Class "D".
  If you are using a tubed preamp I would suggest either Class"D" hybrid or SS.


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Offline Werd

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2016, 09:52:00 PM »
You should look at the systemgain including the source gain. This will get you volume. What is the VA size of the transformer in that amp? If it is small then system gain won't mean much if its low bass performance you want.  You have to have a big VA rating for that.
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Offline richidoo

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2016, 10:26:36 AM »
Just saw these announced on Legacy email newsletter:

http://legacyaudio.com/products/view/powerbloc4/

4x325wpc, class D

Offline rollo

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Re: I got your power, Right Here.
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2016, 07:24:32 AM »
Just saw these announced on Legacy email newsletter:

http://legacyaudio.com/products/view/powerbloc4/

4x325wpc, class D

  That makes sense good recco.


charles
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