Author Topic: 12AU7's  (Read 26545 times)

Offline BobM

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12AU7's
« on: September 23, 2013, 11:13:45 AM »
What is your favorite?

I've tried a few ...

Sovetek's - actually not bad at all, but a a little 2 dimensional and not quiote as dynamic as others

Mullards - beautiful midrange but tubey bottom end

Telefunkens - beautiful top end but a bit thin

Radiotechnique - same as the Tele's, beautiful top end but no bass

RCA Clear Tops - generally pretty decent, dynamic and extended but I detect a little bit of a metallic sheen to them

Sylvania - haven't heard these, but are supposed to be along the lines of the RCA clear tops from what I read

Baldwin - These are my favorite affordable 12AU7 (black plates), manufactured by Raytheon, extension, dimensional, dynamics, with a touch of richness

Amperex - still haven't heard any of these, generally expensive but supposed to be worth it

« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 11:18:50 AM by BobM »
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Offline richidoo

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2013, 12:30:02 PM »
Shuguang $7. Cleanest, clearest of any I have heard, full sound without any tubiness, low distortion all around. More detailed than vintage tubes. They come stock in Eastern Electric gear.

Offline bpape

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 12:59:30 PM »
For the equipment I have that uses AU7's, RCA Black Plates are what I prefer (of those I will choose to pay for...)  Baldwins are similar but to me, not quite as balanced - a TAD more forward in the mids but a TAD more shimmer up top.  Both have a nice richness and solid bottom end.

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Offline rpf

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2013, 01:34:21 PM »
My experience with the 12AU7s are limited to use as drivers and pre-amp tubes in my Rogue Cronus Magnum and as the output tube in an Eastern Electric DAC and DAC Plus (both modded). (What works best in my system is NOS Mullard drivers, RT pre-amp and DAC tubes.)

That said, I have the same impression of most of the tubes you've listed, Bob, but what I hear differs in a few respects as follows:

Radiotechnique (1965 vintage, 6189 version): my favorite. Beautifully balanced from top to bottom, three dimensional, and resolving, with very nice tonal accuracy.

The Amperex are very well balanced and perhaps even more resolving, with a beguiling airiness to them but perhaps lack a little weight compared to the RT and NOS Mullards. The latter I also like but I agree that there is a touch of tubeyness to the bass

The Sylvanias are similar to the RCA Cleartops but not quite as bright on top. The GE 5814 is also similar but even better balanced tonally than the Sylvania.

The Raytheon/Baldwin black plates are definitely the best buys around and also just as you describe. The RCA black plates are similar.

To me the Shuguang are good but a touch clinical/not rich enough, the EH are muddy, the new Tung-Sol and new Mullard un-impressive (don't remember why), the new Genalex not any better than the new Mullards.  

I actually like the JJ ECC82 short plate (the ECC 802 long plates are a little noisier) the most out of the new production. Well balanced and warm, if not particularly resolving. Rogue uses them as standard equipment in their gear. Jim McShane, on the other hand, doesn't think they're reliable (I've had no problems though I've only used them for a few to several months).

NOS Tung-Sol are warm and therefore easy to listen to but have a thickness to them that becomes annoying after a while. Same with Tungsram.

IMS, IMHO, blah, blah, blah.   :thumb:

« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 09:05:09 PM by rpf »
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2013, 03:53:53 PM »
Just curious... has anybody tried these?

SYLVANIA CONN 12AU7 ECC82 VACUUM TUBES LONG PLATE MATCHED PAIR SWEET TONE 1961

I bought a pair as backups to my EE Minimax DAC for under $15.00 shipped.

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2013, 04:16:42 PM »
My new PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium preamp uses these...
Anyone know what stock 12AU7 they use ???
It sounds fine to me out of the box..but I may want to experiment with different ones when its time to re-tube.

Offline StereoNut

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2013, 04:25:48 PM »
Are Raytheon/Baldwin gray plates as good as the Raytheon/Baldwin black plates???
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Offline BobM

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2013, 06:30:04 PM »
you won't know until you try, but I KNOW the black plates are very good. Check out this thread

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/steve-could-you-tell-us-your-ranking-of-the-12au7s.131152/

and Brent Jesse for a reasonably priced supply of them

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/steve-could-you-tell-us-your-ranking-of-the-12au7s.131152/
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Offline JBryan

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2013, 03:52:14 AM »
Just curious... has anybody tried these?

SYLVANIA CONN 12AU7 ECC82 VACUUM TUBES LONG PLATE MATCHED PAIR SWEET TONE 1961

I bought a pair as backups to my EE Minimax DAC for under $15.00 shipped.

SN

I happened upon a Conn organ at a thrift and managed to convince the manager to sell me just the electronics. Each key had a 12AU7 - needless to say, I ended up with over 100 of the tubes and they all tested fine so they've been my go-to AU7 ever since. They are Sylvania Cleartops w/green lettering and sound clean, clear and quiet. I favorite variant is the GE 5814a black/dark gray plates but the ones made by RCA and Sylvania are quite close in tone. By comparison, the cleartops are slightly warmer than the 5814's but since 12AU7's and their variants are plentiful and cheap, you can roll with abandon and still keep the bank intact. For what its worth, I've used these tubes in a DAC, phono pre and preamp/driver stages in some vintage amps (guitar and audio).

Offline Response Audio

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2013, 06:41:31 AM »
I have been using 12AU7 tubes forquite some time as most of my gear is designed around this tube. My top favorites are:

Baldwin -

Sophia Electric -

Sylvania -

Siemens-
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Offline sleepyguy24

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2013, 09:06:55 AM »
I agree with a lot of the points here. JBryan's assessment on the Sylvania 5814 is spot on. I acquired 2 pairs of them at a good price and they aren't going anywhere. IME I prefer the black plates sonically to the grey plates. I've always had blah sounding results with grey plate white label GE 12AU7s and grey plate RCA 12au7 type tubes from the 70s. I guess I've just had bad luck with the ones I've gotten.

One set of tubes I regret selling were the Hewlett Packard orange labeled 5963 tubes. They were sweet sounding.

Another 12AU7 type tube that I can't find is a yellow labeled Westinghouse ECC82 that has a smaller grey plate but has all these rods I hadn't seen in a vintage tube before. I'm attaching a picture just in case you tube vets have seen it before.

As for new stock 12AU7 tubes I've only listened to the Penta Labs 12AU7s from Doug's tubes and EH 12AU7 tubes that came stock with a headphone amp. EH was thin sounding and the Penta Labs were ok.


Offline Response Audio

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2013, 09:48:01 AM »
Thanks sleepy. The Westinghouse is another one of my favs. Forgot about that one. I have 6 pair at one time. One pair was in one of my preamps and the other got shattered in the flood  :(
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12AU7's
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2013, 11:59:11 AM »
After trying a number of 12au7s and its variants in my Hovland HP-100 line stage, I finally settled on the Amperex PQ two star 7316 Holland D-getter.  Sound just seems to have "locked in" and blended with the other tubes and circuitry.

Agree with BobM's assessments, except for the Radiotechnique, which I have not heard.

Tried the Siemens & Halske Ecc82 chrome /silver /nickel plate and the Mullard 10M Master Series 12au7 B6K2 standard pin.  They didn't mate well, so stick with the less expensive RCA 12au7 black plate angled D getter or the RCA JRC-6189 black plate triple mica square getter for the more solid midrange vocals or the richer sounding Ken-Rad labeled GE 12au7 long black plate with angled, raised thick bar D getter.

The inexpensive but elusive Sperry Gyroscope 12au7 military grade horseshoe bar D getter with brushed glass mark code T6 SPL 823623 was a good all-around tube I used for almost a year.

Bottom line : the expensives are not necessarily better.  Haven't heard the Westinghouse, Shuguang, JJ, 5814 or Tung Sol.

Jason/

Offline StereoNut

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2013, 02:05:05 PM »
You guys have me going "to hell in a hand-basket"...  I just bought these for $13.10 shipped.

Lot of (2) 12AU7 Baldwin long black plates (Raytheon) tubes.

These were tested on a Hickok 533a which calls for {2200/2200} for NOS tube micromhos @150v Hickok plate voltage:
Tube 1 tested at {2025-1975} - 92%-90%
Tube 2 tested at {2150-2000} - 98%-91%

These were also tested on a custom bench tester which calls for {2200/2200} for NOS tube micromhos @250v tube data sheet plate voltage:
Tube 1 tested at {1957-1950} - 89%-89%
Tube 2 tested at {2093-1951} - 95%-89%

All this by a guy who didn't have a single tube in his system for 41 of the past 42 years of stereo ownership!

SN
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Offline rollo

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Re: 12AU7's
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2013, 10:53:49 AM »
You guys have me going "to hell in a hand-basket"...  I just bought these for $13.10 shipped.

Lot of (2) 12AU7 Baldwin long black plates (Raytheon) tubes.

These were tested on a Hickok 533a which calls for {2200/2200} for NOS tube micromhos @150v Hickok plate voltage:
Tube 1 tested at {2025-1975} - 92%-90%
Tube 2 tested at {2150-2000} - 98%-91%

These were also tested on a custom bench tester which calls for {2200/2200} for NOS tube micromhos @250v tube data sheet plate voltage:
Tube 1 tested at {1957-1950} - 89%-89%
Tube 2 tested at {2093-1951} - 95%-89%

All this by a guy who didn't have a single tube in his system for 41 of the past 42 years of stereo ownership!

SN

  Ah to tube or not to tube is the question. When tubing remember that the caps used will influence the tube used. IMO that is the synergy we go after.
    For example when V-caps are used as output caps the RCA brand works wonders. When Duelund CAST is used the GE tubes are better.
    Just keep trying all ya can. Have fun amigo.


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