AudioNervosa

Self Medicating => General DIY => Topic started by: StereoNut on February 11, 2012, 08:41:23 PM

Title: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 11, 2012, 08:41:23 PM
I have good news and bad news!

The good news is I have an all metal (see photo below for style) bracketed, wall mount turntable shelf (Target, Sound org.?) to use to eliminate the footfall problems I now have with my LP12 being on a floor-standing cabinet. :thumb:

The support arms on my wall mount are slightly different than what's pictured (shorter, but at a steeper angle) but this is close enough for all of you to get the idea of what I'm working with.

The bad news is (according to the electronic stud-finder I have) the studs in the area that I want to put this wall mount aren't 16" on center the way the bracket is designed.  :?  :shock:  :( :duh

Now what!?! :roll:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: Putz on February 11, 2012, 09:45:54 PM
You didn't say how wide the studs are but assuming they are not much more than 16", I would use a strong board (1" plywood maybe) to attach to the studs and then attach the wall mount to the board.

You should also attach one side of the wall mount to the stud thru the backing board for additional support. Get longer screws than what came with the mount so they go deeper in to the stud. Pre drill all the holes before you attach with screws.

Paint or stain the board to match the wall color and no one will notice it. I did this for my 50" Plasma TV mounting bracket and I could hang from it with no sag.

The Target shelf for my TT is probably holding close to 100 pounds between the VPI Aries and the Maple block underneath it.  Make sure its as level as possible when you install.
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 12, 2012, 07:42:55 AM
Great post Putz, thanks!!

I've used that method before with good results, and I need to do it again for a TT shelf too, into 12"OC studs.
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 12, 2012, 07:51:24 AM
Thanks, Putz

The studs are about 18" apart in that spot.  The problem is the wall this is (hopefully?) going on has a sort of swirling, marbleized "faux" finish, so matching the paint will be impossible!  :(

The other point that this brings up is the WAF!  She's already not happy that my system is in the family room to begin with, let alone putting a TT wall mount up in a "less than beautiful" fashion!  :roll:

I also have to deal with a multiple wall switch plate in that same area, so this is going to be trickier than normal.  (See pix below.)

I've also included pix of the actual bracket I have now that I charged my camera battery!  :duh
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 12, 2012, 09:00:03 AM
You could get a local shop or a buddy to weld some 1" wide tabs onto the vertical bars, to move the screw holes out an inch on each side. I can make drawings for you to give them, but they should be 1/8" steel, with minimum 1/4" of steel surrounding around the 3/8" diameter bolt hole. Weld the tab so the tab hole is in line with the existing top row mounting holes. A flat tab will lift the stand 1/8" away from the wall, probably a good thing, but if you want it to touch the wall make angled tabs that weld to the outside of the vertical bars. The concept is similar to the small tabs that hold the tabletop on the stand, but long enough to reach the studs. I think they would extend 1.5" outside the bars. Then you can touch up the little tabs and bolts and the color mismatch would not be as obvious as a larger surface.

Or you could mount 3" wide vertical boards to the stand's vertical bars, then screw the wood extensions to the studs. You'd still need to paint the wood, but with only 2-3" showing it might be less conspicuous than a large board of different color. It needs to be wide enough to have some extra meat to hold up the TT and support the screws so it can't be "just wide enough." But the steel tabs can be very small. 

Whatever mount extension you choose, it's the top screws that do most of the work and they need to be screwed in DEEP! Use 3" or 3.5" long 1/4" lag bolts with washers. Make a full depth 3/16" pilot hole in the stud (don't go all the way through!) Relieve the sheetrock around the pilot hole so the bolt threads won't tear up the sheetrock too much.

Another (bad) idea is to veneer the large mounting board that Putz recommended so that it looks pretty. The existing wood cabinet looks good enough, so maybe a similarly pretty wood tone might fly. (not)  :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: Putz on February 12, 2012, 09:57:48 AM
I would go with the vertical solution and a black finish to match the stand. You could also pull out the audio stand a little bit in order to attach the mount just above the stand. That's assuming the stand is wider than 18" and would hide the bottom part of the wall mount. You might end up with an effect where it looks like the wall mount is floating on top of the stand (or not).
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 12, 2012, 04:14:42 PM
Thanks, guys!  I guess the one thing I should've mentioned is I plan on pulling my audio rack out of the wood cabinet it's in now and placing it under the wall mount TT bracket.

Since my initial post, I checked the wall again with the stud finder and I may have a way around this...???  There seems to be another stud set further over to the right from the open archway, that matches up to another stud 16" further over to the right; so far, so good...

But, the edge of the wall bracket itself is about 1 3/4" wider than where the screw hole openings are.  I have to figure out whether the left side of the bracket will clear that bank of wall switches or not.  It's impossible to "eyeball" with the turntable and audio cabinet directly in front of that spot right now.  I'm also not sure how much extra space I'll have to work with between the bottom of wall mount and the top of the audio rack only (without the wood cabinet) until I pull everything apart.

Once I actually move the cabinet and all my electronics out of the way I'll be able to hold the bracket up against the wall and see where everything falls.

To be continued...
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: BobM on February 13, 2012, 05:56:31 AM
Cheap construction, not 16" on center means your house was probably manufactured in China. Look at your foundation and see if you can identify something that looks like this. Maybe you can get some of your money back. :-k

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_auRwGoCJQyg/TTM1bZZ_LFI/AAAAAAAAACQ/lRXPPjpDr-8/s1600/chinacourt.jpg)
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 13, 2012, 07:30:15 AM
Cheap construction, not 16" on center means your house was probably manufactured in China. Look at your foundation and see if you can identify something that looks like this. Maybe you can get some of your money back. :-k

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_auRwGoCJQyg/TTM1bZZ_LFI/AAAAAAAAACQ/lRXPPjpDr-8/s1600/chinacourt.jpg)

Very funny, Bob!  :x

Considering my house is close to 100 years old and the wall in question used to be an exterior (outside) wall, who knows what the builder was thinking!?!?

I'm just happy that it's still standing after all these years!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 13, 2012, 08:11:28 AM
who knows what the builder was thinking!?!?

I bet he was thinking about a wall shelf for this... 

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/VictorVPhonograph.jpg/466px-VictorVPhonograph.jpg)

... and all the other studs in the house are 16"OC.   :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: Bill O'Connell on February 13, 2012, 08:49:01 AM
When you have figured out the words to choose that brings the wife to acceptance, please let me know as I would love to try some diffusors but can't bring myself to discuss that I need to try some more acoustic treatments. :lol:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: tmazz on February 13, 2012, 09:04:02 AM
When you have figured out the words to choose that brings the wife to acceptance, please let me know as I would love to try some diffusors but can't bring myself to discuss that I need to try some more acoustic treatments. :lol:

I think the only words that could possibly join room diffusers and wife acceptance would be "dedicated mancave" Other than that the response would be "You want to put those things where?"  :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 13, 2012, 05:50:58 PM
who knows what the builder was thinking!?!?

I bet he was thinking about a wall shelf for this... 

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/VictorVPhonograph.jpg/466px-VictorVPhonograph.jpg)

+1  :thumb:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 13, 2012, 05:52:58 PM
who knows what the builder was thinking!?!?

... and all the other studs in the house are 16"OC.   :rofl:

Rich - My house is so old, rulers weren't invented yet!!! :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 13, 2012, 05:56:59 PM
... Other than that the response would be "You want to put those things where?"  :rofl:

Gee, Tom!  My wife usually asks me that question in the singular form, rather than plural!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: Bill O'Connell on February 13, 2012, 06:40:50 PM
SN,

 My wife just asked me 'What are you laughing about all by yourself in there" :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: tmazz on February 13, 2012, 07:45:09 PM
... Other than that the response would be "You want to put those things where?"  :rofl:

Gee, Tom!  My wife usually asks me that question in the singular form, rather than plural!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

TMI  :roll:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 14, 2012, 05:14:35 AM
SN,

 My wife just asked me 'What are you laughing about all by yourself in there" :rofl:

I'm always happy to provide a bit of levity here, every once in a while!  :)
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: jianghai on February 15, 2012, 10:08:12 AM
Cheap construction, not 16" on center means your house was probably manufactured in China. Look at your foundation and see if you can identify something that looks like this. Maybe you can get some of your money back. :-k

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_auRwGoCJQyg/TTM1bZZ_LFI/AAAAAAAAACQ/lRXPPjpDr-8/s1600/chinacourt.jpg)

LOL can anyone here actually even read that  :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: Inscrutable on February 18, 2012, 12:44:32 AM
OK, now the OP is not nearly as much fun as the replies, and you've probably already done something with this, but just in case ...

Either you are overthinking it, or I am underthinking it.  I know where the smart money is ...  nonetheless ... pressing on ... If the studs are 18"oc, then the inside edges of each are 16-1/2" apart - which should be just 1/4" outside the mounting holes.  Just drive longer lags screws in at a fairly steep angle. Slight chance you have to take a drill and widen out the holes a bit to accept a large ish diameter lag at an angle. Unless you are mounting a VERY high mass table (in which case this shelf is too lightweight anyway) you should be fine.
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 19, 2012, 07:20:20 AM
OK... I've finally re-painted the wall mount, completely disassembled my system and have access to the wall without anything in front of it.  I have to go buy lag bolts (I was in Lowes yesterday for other things and forgot the damned bolts!) so I can get started today. 

My question du jour is whether I put any kind of felt or rubberized backing on the part of the bracket that goes up against the wall or just flush it up to the wall "as is"?

Suggestions???
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: rollo on February 19, 2012, 08:38:56 AM
  Couldn't hurt using a dampening. Hockey pucks at $1 a piece. Drill a hole through them and install with lag bolt through them to stud.  mount. Or a piece of wood. [ Maple, Spruce].


charles
   
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 19, 2012, 10:08:03 AM
You could a washer or two for a spacer if you need it, but I don't see why you'd need a spacer.

How did you decide to make up for the width difference?
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 19, 2012, 07:25:55 PM
Oh boy, the plot thickens!!!

I went to Lowes, picked up the longest (3") screws that would fit though the mounting holes in the wall bracket and started to re-check position before drilling.

Well, the stud finder confirmed the markings on the wall and I decided to drill a small pilot hole to start.  Starting where the top left mountng screw would go, I drilled into the sheet rock, but felt no stud behind it!?!  :roll:

I took a finishing nail that was longer than the drill bit and slipped that into the pilot hole and still no stud!?! :?

I then took a 10" length of straight wire coat hanger and fed that though the hole. Finally, I hit the stud.  When I measured the depth of it, it was 4 1/4" deep! :shock:

I'm guessing that since this front wall of my room used to be the rear outside wall of my house (before we built the extension) the stud finder was actually reading the old (original) stud, not the outermost studs that framed the room when it was built!!!  :duh  At this point, I tried the good old fashioned stud finder method and rapped my knuckle across the wall and listened.  It confirmed what I already knew with my pilot hole - no stud in that spot!

From what I can tell now, the outer new room build studs that actually back themselves up to the sheetrock in that vicinity of the room are 24" apart.

So I am at a standstill right now.  :(
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: eleazar on February 19, 2012, 08:29:01 PM
That sucks I live in an older home so I know where you're coming from. My 2nd floor all studs were 2' on center give or take an inch or 3. LOL
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: Inscrutable on February 20, 2012, 02:51:48 AM
  ](*,)
It must be that you've moved it from its current location as pictured in one of your earleir posts? That area just looks like a normal interior framed wall.  It seems that now you either need a much larger plate or bracket or intermediate mounting boards to span the 24" ... or you need to cut out the drywall and frame in a box with a 16" span between studs, then patch the drywall back in. Is this new area also with the paint finish that would be hard to match/blend in?  Painting the whole wall out of the question?


Quote
When you have figured out the words to choose that brings the wife to acceptance
[-(
So now the question is whether "diamonds" or "Arcici suspension rack" sounds cheaper
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 20, 2012, 05:57:40 AM
  ](*,)
It must be that you've moved it from its current location as pictured in one of your earleir posts? That area just looks like a normal interior framed wall.  It seems that now you either need a much larger plate or bracket or intermediate mounting boards to span the 24" ... or you need to cut out the drywall and frame in a box with a 16" span between studs, then patch the drywall back in. Is this new area also with the paint finish that would be hard to match/blend in?  Painting the whole wall out of the question?

I'm still talking about the same spot.  It's an interior framed wall that was studded out from what once used to be the exterior back wall of my house, with one BIG exception... it's not normal!!!  My contractor must have figured two things: how can I save some $$$ (use less lumber!) and once it's sheet rocked over, who the hell will know the difference!  :duh

Cutting out the drywall is out, because it still is the room with the faux marbled paint finish.  Besides, my wife would totally flip out if I started making holes like that.  :roll:   I can hear her now - "sure, I can't get you to put up a new curtain rod for me, but you have time to rip apart the family room wall and rebuild it just for your #@!$%^ turntable!"  :shock:

I'm thinking a mounting board that spans across the 24" (stud to stud) is going to be the only reasonable way around this, but there are aesthetic issues to still be overcome!  So it's back to the drawing board for now! :(

Keep those "cards and letters" rollin' in!
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 20, 2012, 06:18:25 AM
24" OC is common for internal non load bearing walls. I have some in my 7yo house.

Tim's got the right idea. Just get a 4 foot piece of steel or aluminum square tubing from home depot. Make two cross beams with holes for the lag bolts and holes for the TT rack. Use round head bolts and washers with the screw head towards the wall to connect the TT rack to the cross braces. Use lag bolts with washers under the heads screwed straight 90degrees into the studs. Wood cross beams would work too, but they will be wider and more visible.

Rectangular Steel tube:
http://www.speedymetals.com/ps-4690-202-1-12-x-34-x-41664-wall-rectangular-steel-tubing.aspx

They will cut custom lengths, I suggest you cut them to 26-27"

If you are really handy (or have ET fingers) you can figure a way to attach the nut for the TT rack bolts inside the tubing so the tube can mount flush to the wall. If not, use a spacer (like a nut) on the lag bolts to make room for rack attachment bolts or nuts.
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: tmazz on February 20, 2012, 07:31:23 AM
I can hear her now - "sure, I can't get you to put up a new curtain rod for me, but you have time to rip apart the family room wall and rebuild it just for your #@!$%^ turntable!"  :shock:

Do you really think she would be that calm? (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Unhappy/unhappy-057.gif)  (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Unhappy/flame-010.gif)  (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Unhappy/unhappy-057.gif)
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: rollo on February 20, 2012, 07:55:25 AM
 Richadoo is spot on with stud spacing. The solution suggested should work fine. BTW Jay  L. is very handy at these things give him a call. Call Mel as well how swell.   


charles
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 21, 2012, 09:26:22 AM
So... since I am trying to figure out how to accomplish this task (working with a 24" span between studs) and yet make it as least offensive visually (to remain married!)  I will now complicate it further.  :shock:

I have attached a picture of a Lovan audio rack like I have. (See below.)  Since I have been staring at my wall in my listening room trying to think of a way around my TT wall mount problem, I've been thinking about "wire management" too.  I figure if I'm going to drive myself nuts, I may as well do it "all the way".  :rofl:

Do any of you have any ideas that will hide my I/C's, Power Cords, etc... behind an open rack like I have that I can somehow incorporate into my wall mount solution?  :roll:

Suggestions...???

Thanks!
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 21, 2012, 12:03:59 PM
Cable cloaking device:

(http://cache0.bigcartel.com/product_images/30723841/belle_de_jour_silk_lace_eyemask_blindfold_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 21, 2012, 12:18:47 PM
Make a full height hollow box as your stud widener, 6" deep. Veneer it or faux paint it to match.
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 21, 2012, 12:22:19 PM
Cable cloaking device:

(http://cache0.bigcartel.com/product_images/30723841/belle_de_jour_silk_lace_eyemask_blindfold_2.jpg)

Aaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!!!  You just made my whole day, Rich!   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: eleazar on February 21, 2012, 01:02:18 PM
Make a full height hollow box as your stud widener, 6" deep. Veneer it or faux paint it to match.

A great idea then you can a light behind for a soft glow to come out the top and bottom (with the wifes approval of course) :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: toobluvr on February 21, 2012, 03:36:13 PM
Boy oh boy, what a hassle!!  Change your table, as per my comparo and suggestion here (reply #24):

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=3426.msg43770#msg43770

Spare your walls the butchering.  Spare your marriage.  Spare yourself the work and aggravation.  But most importantly, get better sound, and a fatter bank account.  And no more worries about footfalls.  For a solid summer my street was completely ripped up for new sewer/water lines.  The house was shaking like it was gonna fall down.  Played my Rock III thru everything...didn't skip a beat.

A Rock III table will run about 500-600 used.  Add a decent Rega or Michell Techno-arm and you are done for around 1000. (I use Kuzma Stogi Ref on mine)

A used Kuzma Stabi "s" / Stogi "s" setup will cost 1000-1400 and will also beat the Linn. 

Not just talking crap here, I have owned all three setups.

I see you are on LI.  I am too.  Come by for a listen.  Feel free to bring your Linn for direct comparo, if you like.

Good luck whatever you do!    :thumb:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: rollo on February 21, 2012, 03:49:19 PM
Cable cloaking device:

(http://cache0.bigcartel.com/product_images/30723841/belle_de_jour_silk_lace_eyemask_blindfold_2.jpg)


  Your killing me BRILLIANT !!!! Is it Cryo treated ?



charles
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 21, 2012, 05:26:01 PM
toobluvr, thanks for mentioning The Rock again, it looks pretty cool.

Does it have a suspension that isolates from vibration? I didn't see that mentioned in the website for the V7, but I didn't study it.

http://www.townshendaudio.com/turntables/the-rock-7

edit: http://app.audiogon.com/listings/townshend-rock-7-with-dust-cover--2
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: toobluvr on February 22, 2012, 05:13:05 AM
I have a Rock III, several generations older than the 7.

It does not have a sprung suspension.  It has a built in air bladder (just like the Townshend Seismic Sink) and a silicon dampening trough at the cartridge end.  The 7 only has the latter.

a review:

http://www.regonaudio.com/RockMarkIII.html

a discussion on the various Rock iterations:

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?44543-Townshend-Rock-3
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 22, 2012, 05:25:11 AM
So to avoid a wall mount, I would need a Rock 3? Rock 7 would still need a wall mount? Thanks john
Rich
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: toobluvr on February 22, 2012, 05:33:42 AM
So to avoid a wall mount, I would need a Rock 3? Rock 7 would still need a wall mount? Thanks john
Rich

No experience with the 7 so I can't comment on it, but wall mount not needed with the 3.
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: Triode Pete on February 22, 2012, 06:28:25 AM
Boy oh boy, what a hassle!!  Change your table, as per my comparo and suggestion here (reply #24):

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=3426.msg43770#msg43770

Spare your walls the butchering.  Spare your marriage.  Spare yourself the work and aggravation.  But most importantly, get better sound, and a fatter bank account.  And no more worries about footfalls.  For a solid summer my street was completely ripped up for new sewer/water lines.  The house was shaking like it was gonna fall down.  Played my Rock III thru everything...didn't skip a beat.

A Rock III table will run about 500-600 used.  Add a decent Rega or Michell Techno-arm and you are done for around 1000. (I use Kuzma Stogi Ref on mine)

A used Kuzma Stabi "s" / Stogi "s" setup will cost 1000-1400 and will also beat the Linn. 

Not just talking crap here, I have owned all three setups.

I see you are on LI.  I am too.  Come by for a listen.  Feel free to bring your Linn for direct comparo, if you like.

Good luck whatever you do!    :thumb:

John's table & system sounds very nice!

Be a Linn "separatist", just like Mr. Rollo!

My $0.02
Pete
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 22, 2012, 07:11:33 AM
Pete and John

I appreciate the thoughts here, but going to a new (different) turntable is not as simple as you make it sound.  Besides taking into consideration what's involved with finding a reasonably priced used Townshend Rock III, tonearm & cartridge combo. as a replacement.  I'd also have to simultaneously find a buyer for my LP12 to fund that purchase and do it all without the benefit of having a safe and secure Audiogon site to buy & sell from.

Believe me, I can't imagine anyone that wouldn't jump at the chance to have better sound and put some extra cash in their pocket.  I just don't know if I'm willing to wait for that whole process to come full circle right now.

If (?) I can somehow solve my wall mount crisis now, it doesn't mean I can't explore "swapping" turntables at a later date.  I'm sure the Townshend Rock III or any other new/used turntable won't mind being on that wall bracket when (if?) that time ever comes.

I will keep you all posted as the saga continues...
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: tmazz on February 22, 2012, 08:54:37 AM
I will keep you all posted as the saga continues...

(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/TV_and_Movies/combat-jedi1.gif)
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: rollo on February 22, 2012, 10:10:56 AM
  Bill years ago when designing a interior of an apt we were asked to come up with a solution for racks.
   We used small Roman style columns topped with wood. Attractive and functional. Spiked the bases and looked great.
   If it were me I would consider selling the wall mount. Use a column with a sand box atop. The inside of the columns are hollow. A great place for wire management. If you like you can fill the columns  with sandblasting material. [ Steel ]. Better than sand.
  In the end three or four columns [ spaced apart ] with either individual wood tops or one large top with columns below. Looks great works sonically as the gear is spaced to reduce magnetic field interference, so a nice wood [ Wifey picks out ] and finish the columns any which wat you desire oh my !!
   BTW the footfall issue should go away as well.


charles
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: _Scotty_ on February 22, 2012, 01:01:12 PM
Bill what is under the floor in the room with the foot fall problem?
Scotty
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 22, 2012, 01:32:37 PM
Bill what is under the floor in the room with the foot fall problem?
Scotty

The room is 26' wide by 16' deep.  My stereo is on the longer (26') wall, almost centered L <> R.  The floor is ceramic tile set on a "mud" base with a plywood sub-floor.  Underneath that is a crawl-space.  I even had a buddy of mine stuff himself into the damned crawl-space and run a 4 x 4" halfway between the main center floor support (that's 8' out from the front wall) and the front of the room, across a 14 foot span that goes from just beyond my stereo rack on the left all the way across to just past my far right side speaker.  Even with that extra bracing (4' out from the front of the room towards the middle) horizontally under the floor joists, my tonearm STILL bounces!  :shock:

I thought everything would be taken care of, but the floor just has too much #@!$%&* "spring" to it!  :x
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 22, 2012, 02:40:57 PM
Excellent question Scotty. Wish I thought of that.  :duh

A screw jack post under the TT is all you need. They come in various nominal lengths and are adjustable over a range. Put it on a Dek-Block pier right on the dirt. Crank in 1/8" of lift, problem solved.  mfsoa uses these.

Here's one that uses your own 4x4 as column.
http://www.ellisok.com/ellisok/products_screwjacks.html#SJ4
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 22, 2012, 04:46:13 PM
I guess I should've explained my last post a little better.

The 14 foot long 4 x 4" that my buddy installed across the floor joists in the crawl-space at the front of the room is braced with vertical 4 x 4's jacked up underneath it, each supported at the base by a 1 foot square / 2" thick cement patio block.  (Oh, and by the way - the crawl-space has a 3" concrete scree coat covering the ground.  No exposed dirt.)  There are 4 of these 4 x 4" verticals, spaced evenly across that 14 foot 4 x 4" support.  And the damned floor STILL bounces!  :evil:

That's why this whole thing has me totally frustrated. :duh
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 22, 2012, 05:24:25 PM
How far away from the TT is the nearest jack post? It must be directly under the TT rack. The horizontal 4x4 is not rigid enough to stop micro-vibrations without support, it's just like the wooden floor structure, which easily vibrates.  The post under the TT needs to lift the house a small amount to pre-load the floor so that it can't move further upward with impulses. Then it can't move up and it can't move down.  You should be able to stomp on the floor above the post and feel/hear no low-frequency resonance.
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 22, 2012, 07:01:22 PM
How far away from the TT is the nearest jack post? It must be directly under the TT rack. The horizontal 4x4 is not rigid enough to stop micro-vibrations without support, it's just like the wooden floor structure, which easily vibrates.  The post under the TT needs to lift the house a small amount to pre-load the floor so that it can't move further upward with impulses. Then it can't move up and it can't move down.  You should be able to stomp on the floor above the post and feel/hear no low-frequency resonance.

It's very close to being right in front of the TT (L<>R) and about 2 feet in front of it.
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 22, 2012, 08:02:28 PM
Pisser! I can see why you're frustrated!! Can you try to crank in a couple more turns?  Just don't crack the plaster...   :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 23, 2012, 05:24:05 AM
Pisser! I can see why you're frustrated!! Can you try to crank in a couple more turns?  Just don't crack the plaster...   :rofl:

Maybe I should just pull one of the air vents off of the foundation and have a cement truck come in and back-fill the whole damed crawl-space with 90 cubic yards of concrete...???  :shock:

That should do it!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: BobM on February 23, 2012, 05:37:50 AM
It certainly would alleviate the WAF for the wall mount shelf. I can hear it now ...

"But honey, that cement truck is out front because you didn't want me to ruin the paint job on the wall. I'm doing this for youuuuu."
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: tmazz on February 23, 2012, 05:42:51 AM
It certainly would alleviate the WAF for the wall mount shelf. I can hear it now ...

"But honey, that cement truck is out front because you didn't want me to ruin the paint job on the wall. I'm doing this for youuuuu."


You've been there?    :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 23, 2012, 05:53:48 AM
You guys are too funny!  This is the most fun I've ever had in NOT solving a problem!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: tmazz on February 23, 2012, 06:01:20 AM
You guys are too funny!  This is the most fun I've ever had in NOT solving a problem!  :thumb:

Always glad to help.  :D
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: BobM on February 23, 2012, 07:46:34 AM
I tend to agree with John. Your real problem is the Linn. You can still sell it for good $. Get yourself something less bouncy, and you will indeed have an improved sound as well (just ask rollo now that he's replaced his Linn).

Problem solved, you get new stuff to research, buy and play with, WAF is satisfied.
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: _Scotty_ on February 23, 2012, 10:23:09 AM
Bill as you may have noticed your Linn's suspension is not really isolating the table from vibration very effectively. You might try to re-tune the tables suspension to change its resonant frequency. The suspension may also be under-damped.
When you have an arm/cartridge resonant frequency that falls within the turntable suspension's resonant frequency range you can experience problems like you describe.
 As far as bracing up the floor goes, I would try placing my screw-jacks along a line perpendicular with the wall you would like to place your shelf on and also behind the wall clear to the other side of the house. You may also have better luck using a small hydraulic jack rated for several tons to raise the floor to allow placement of fixed bracing.
 The high dollar solution would be a Vibraplane isolation table.
Another possible solution would be to hang a maple cutting board from eye-bolts attached to the ceiling that is big enough to place the table on. It could be suspended using small diameter vinyl covered steel cables.
Scotty
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: _Scotty_ on February 23, 2012, 10:38:27 AM
Bill, my apologies for not noticing the picture of your rack.
The first thought that came to mind after seeing this picture is, I wonder what would happen if I firmly attached the rack to the wall behind it. If the wall isn't actually moving up and down with the floor this might solve the problem.
 Elaborating on the solution, you might raise the rack off the floor a half an inch with soft rubber footers and secure it to the stud in the wall by drilling through the center bar in the rear and using several 1/4 inch lag screws. If the rack is now a 1/2 inch off the floor and virtually suspended from the wall behind it maybe the problem would go away.
Scotty  
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: BobM on February 23, 2012, 11:24:40 AM
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4ussezZA0sE9BzrZBeOrsP2gyrKRwdbPO6_VWhMxmyB8MIPhV)
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 23, 2012, 11:55:20 AM
Bill, my apologies for not noticing the picture of your rack.
The first thought that came to mind after seeing this picture is, I wonder what would happen if I firmly attached the rack to the wall behind it. If the wall isn't actually moving up and down with the floor this might solve the problem.
 Elaborating on the solution, you might raise the rack off the floor a half an inch with soft rubber footers and secure it to the stud in the wall by drilling through the center bar in the rear and using several 1/4 inch lag screws. If the rack is now a 1/2 inch off the floor and virtually suspended from the wall behind it maybe the problem would go away.
Scotty  

Scotty

Please look at some of the pictures that I posted earlier for clarification.  Page 1, reply#3: The top 2 pix show the way I had my turntable sitting on top of an oak cabinet. The bottom 3 pix show my steel TT wall mount bracket. If you "FF" to Page 3, reply#30, it shows an Lovan audio rack like I have.

I have pulled my Lovan audio rack out from the oak cabinet (which I no longer plan on using) and now plan on using the rack by itself for my electronics.  My LP12 will NOT be sitting upon this floor-standing rack, so mounting the Lovan on the wall and off the floor isn't going to help me here.  Neither is revisiting the floor bracing in my crawl-space.  (BTW - the Lovan rack is "modular", not one solid piece.)

I feel (at this point, anyway) that the TT wall mount bracket is the only feasible way to get around the footfall problems in this room.  I just have to figure a way to work with the studs in that area that are 24" apart to mount the bracket securely, incorporate some sort of cable management for behind the floor-standing Lovan audio rack which will be placed directly in front (and underneath) the TT wall mount and last but not least, pass the WAF test all at the same time! :roll:

Not a small task by any means! :shock:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: _Scotty_ on February 23, 2012, 12:00:48 PM
Well, if was easy everybody would be in this hobby.
Good luck with the wall mount project.
Scotty
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 23, 2012, 12:26:45 PM
Well, if was easy everybody would be in this hobby.
Good luck with the wall mount project.
Scotty

Thanks, Scotty!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: AcidJazz on February 23, 2012, 10:20:02 PM
Ummm...just how married are you to this specific wall mount?
If it was me, I would just go to Ikea and pick up a couple sturdy wall brackets, mount them right on the studs, and then get a nice block of heavy thick wood...shelf is done.

Wait...this is AudiophiliaLand...scratch that.  :duh
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: _Scotty_ on February 24, 2012, 05:57:46 AM
You know damn well a big BOOS butcher block on sturdy shelf brackets is just TOO EASY!  :rofl:
Scotty
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 24, 2012, 08:47:17 AM
Audiophile ≠ Easy !!!  :duh
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: toobluvr on February 24, 2012, 09:39:15 AM
It's really not that hard:

(1)  Sell the Target wall mount

(2)  Buy, or have made, some real nice and sturdy iron brackets.

(3)  Install them on your 24" wide studs

(4)  top it with a really nice 2 - 4 inch thick maple butcher block

(5)  use audiophile approved gizmos of your choice for coupling/isolation:  cones, footers, rubber grommetts, Herbies this and that, etc.     :roll:

It will look better.
It will work at least just as well.
Less work and less hassle and less damage to walls.

Just end your pain already!!    :rofl:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: toobluvr on February 24, 2012, 11:35:30 AM

Another option, if you are completely married to the Target mount.....

Just take it to a machine shop or iron worker's shop (storefronts, gates, railings, etc.) and have them weld on additional pieces to make it wider.  It is a simple job that I'm sure can be done for reasonable $$.
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 27, 2013, 09:45:43 AM
I can hear all of you groaning from here - just chill!  8)

Yes, I am reviving this over a year old thread to let everyone know I have FINALLY resolved my Linn LP12's footfall problems with the bouncy floor in my listening room.

Strike up the band!

(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-music021.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

After a gazillion delays in getting a custom shelf cut for my turntable wall mount, I finally (with the help of fellow Audio Syndrome member, Mel) have things worked out.  I pulled my system apart and started working on my new combo wall mount and audio rack.  I finished the shelf and one visible cleat in black (pix to follow) to match the rest of the Ikea pieces I had bought months and months ago, drilled a "boatload" of pilot holes in the wall to find studs to mount the two (2) horizontal cleats to, assembled the CD storage section into the outer shell of the bookcase, screwed it all together and mounted the TT top shelf.

I re-assembled my complete system this past weekend, including my Linn LP12 and Ureka!  

NO MORE FOOTFALL PROBLEMS!!!

Not only have I gotten to listen to vinyl for the first time in over a year in my house, I got to hear the Soundsmith MMP3 phono stage I bought used on AC around New Years 2013 along with it.  All I can say is WOW!  The Soundsmith phono stage is so much more "alive" than the phono boards in my old Naim system.  It's almost like I got a new turntable!

All I can say is that this was worth the wait!  I will post pix soon.

SN


Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: topround on February 27, 2013, 10:15:51 AM
Yes that little soundsmith phono is quite nice
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: BobM on February 27, 2013, 11:08:52 AM
 :pics?:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 27, 2013, 11:11:55 AM
:pics?:

I know, I know!  I said I'd post pix.  Hopefully tonight! :roll:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 27, 2013, 11:58:08 AM
Yes that little soundsmith phono is quite nice

I am very happy with it. In just the few short listening sessions I've gotten in with it, it sounds like a "keeper".  

The "bang-for-the-buck" factor makes it even better! :thumb:

SN
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: toobluvr on February 27, 2013, 01:16:28 PM
Hmmm.....why am I not surprised it beats the Naim?!

Congrats and enjoy!    :thumb:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 27, 2013, 01:25:52 PM
Hmmm.....why am I not surprised it beats the Naim?!

Congrats and enjoy!    :thumb:

Thanks, John!  :)
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 27, 2013, 08:06:35 PM
Here are some crappy iPhone pix.  It's better than nothing for now!  ;)
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: richidoo on February 27, 2013, 08:22:51 PM
That looks very nice!
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 27, 2013, 08:39:08 PM
That looks very nice!

Thanks, Rich!  The iPhone pix don't really do it justice, but at least it gives everyone an idea of what it looks like.

Even though it's hard to see in the pix, the bookcase with CD storage on the left side and the extended top shelf for the turntable is mounted only on the wall.  It "floats" about 1 3/4" off of the floor, which is how I eliminated the footfall problems I was having.   The back leg of the metal Lovan audio rack drops through a hole cut through the bottom-most shelf of the bookcase, so it keeps everything else isolated from the wall mount.

I have to admit, it came out better than expected.  Especially since it looks like a "store bought" piece and not the "Rube Goldberg" creation that I fabricated in my head! :lol:

Again, kudos to my friend Mel who custom cut the top shelf and edged it with oak molding to look like a real piece of furniture.

If I can get my digital camera to charge it's battery, I'll post better shots as soon as I can.

SN
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on February 28, 2013, 08:22:09 PM
New (better?) pix...
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: melgross on March 02, 2013, 09:02:25 PM
Hey Bill, it looks pretty good. Good job on the mounting, assembly and staining.

Mel
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on March 03, 2013, 10:16:55 AM
Hey Bill, it looks pretty good. Good job on the mounting, assembly and staining.

Mel

Thanks for the compiments!  Couldn't of done without your handiwork first!  Thanks again! :thumb:
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: rollo on March 11, 2013, 07:44:42 AM
Hey Bill, it looks pretty good. Good job on the mounting, assembly and staining.

Mel

 Good to see you posting here Mel.


charles
Title: Re: Turntable Wall Mount
Post by: StereoNut on March 11, 2013, 08:43:26 AM
Hey Bill, it looks pretty good. Good job on the mounting, assembly and staining.

Mel

 Good to see you posting here Mel.


charles

+1  :thumb: