AudioNervosa
Group Therapy => NC Triangulation => Topic started by: richidoo on September 08, 2010, 05:58:45 PM
-
I'm looking forward to seeing everyone, and sharing my new toys.
My diy OB speaker based on Feastrex D5nf and AE Dipole 12 drivers, like The Lotus Group's Granada (http://www.lotusgroupusa.com/Granada.htm)
Acoustic treatments finally coming together now, only a year late... should be mostly done by then. 320 sq ft of goodiepanel, pretty much everywhere. Not sure I'll finish everything, but at a minimum the kitchen echo will be gone.
Rob S. is our special guest, he is bringing some special treats that will take the speakers to new heights, including 4 channels of Atma-Sphere OTL and his new DEQX active crossover. Thanks Rob! I know I'm gonna regret this, in a good way...
Sol's new c25 amplifier, a 25wpc stereo current source amplifier for single driver speakers is really, really special. Amazing sound from a simple IC chip configured for current instead of voltage. My Manley 300B uses 16ohm taps and no feedback with the Feastrex. So sweet! With Black Treasures I hope it can stand up to the OTL.
Buffalo2 DAC will be done by then, with Legato output and Placid PS. Don't know if this will be playing, as DEQX may be the best solution considering the short time frame. Maybe in a headphone rig, like we've done before, but last time it sucked with Sonos/Altmann as source.
I'll be posting details of the various projects as they are built, over in Self-Help. I hope everyone can make it. I'll be inviting the AC group to come also.
-
Can I attend?
I was going to go to RMAF but decided besides being broke that there is nothing there I really want to buy.
I would much rather go to a Burning Amp festival! Maybe next year.
Where are you located Rich? Can I bring my son? And can you recommend some places to stay in the area?
Mike
-
Of course Mike! You and your son are welcome to come. My boys are 8 and 10, I think they are close in age to yours. I think we can squeeze you in here, as long as you and Rob don't mind sharing a twin bed? :rofl: j/k I'll PM you.
-
I think we can squeeze you in here.....as long as you and Rob don't mind sharing a twin bed?
Rich....
Mike (topround)....he's a big guy.....gonna need a bigger bed... :rofl:
-
Mike, hope you can make it down so I can meet you in person. This NC group is great!! Maybe you can help Rich with his electronics projects.....probably not given your recent track record. :lol:
-
I will try my best to be there for this. Interested to see and hear new toys.
It'll be great to see Rob again (and clear out part of my garage as well :) hehehehehe)
Anything you need me to bring for this Rich?
It would be cool if Sol is done with the new tube monoblocks to let them debut with the other stuff... he says he is pretty close....
-
I think I'll be free that weekend.. and Mike, Rob, or others are welcome to stay at our place also. We have 2 open guest rooms. I live 3 minutes from Shane/HTDoc but about 40 minutes from Rich. But mi casa es su casa.. just let me know.
Looking forward to hearing your new creations, Rich. You must be thrilled to hear it come together. I'm very excited to hear you've got the panels going up because I know what that will mean to your enjoyment.
As the time gets closer, let me know if you could use a hand. I will be there if life allows.
Thanks,
Carl
-
Glad you can make it Shane. You know I will have a list for you as we draw closer. A kaptivator mainline in my vein? It would be very cool to hear the new amps. I have a sealed Feastrex box also, finishing it today, but it will play only down to 70Hz or so, but it gets us out of active mode for amp and DAC comparisons if we go there. Maybe bring C7s if your amps are ready? I have 27" stands.
Thanks Carl. Glad you can make it too. I will need your help IF I finish the ceiling panels by then. But Rob can help with those the day before if you can't get here before the meet. I'll keep you posted on the progress. Thanks.
-
Are we going to blow anything up this time? :shock:
I'll try to be there.
Bad, bad, bad.
You guys are tops for entertainment. :thumb:
D
-
It's been awhile since I've been to a G2G - life has definitely been getting in the way. I'm missing you guys! Hope to be there as well.
-
We miss you too Mike. I hope you can make it. Tell the ladies you are already booked. ;)
Den, I can assure you there will be no ribbon fireworks, but a prototype high voltage tube amp might appear. Unfortunately, Sol designed and built it, so the chances of a BIG BANG are extremely low. Unless...
(http://www.dreamstime.com/girl-with-squirt-gun-largethumb9234739.jpg)
But at least it will sound good.
Feel free to bring some ribbon tweeters, get them in SC where they're legal. hehe
-
I'm IN :drool:!!!
Let me know if I can bring anything.
-
:thumb: Thanks Steve... will do.
Maybe one 2250 to try some big power on the bass. The woofers are 90dB/8R, with CES raves from sharing only 30wpc between two woofers. But we all know that if 30 is good, 250 must be better. :twisted: The Butler 2250 is one of the best amps in the bass that I've heard. Maybe some cables, I'll let you know.
Thanks! Glad you can make it Steve
-
I never really thought the Butler excelled at bass. It is a very fine sounding amp, I found it to be a very liquid midrangy sound with nice highs, bass was a little soft but it didin't matter so much because the mids and highs were so nice.
My brother has a Classe 400 amp, a beast, 120 pounds, toroid the size of a dinner plate, I kid you not, that has ridiculous bass, huge giant subwoofer bass, fast and clean and exciting.
Everything else kinda sucks though. :duh Very solid state sounding.
Rich, I just checked airfare....very doable( is this a real word?)
My son is excited.
If I can make it what should I bring?
I will bring two bottles of very good wine, but what in equipment?
Being on a plane may make it difficult to bring stuff though?
Mike
-
I am glad it is doable Mike. This will be fun meet for everybody.
Don't bring anything big, you'll just worry about it and we'll be bummed if it gets broken. Maybe you want to bring some ICs to compare to JPS? Last warning, you don't have to do this... back away from the JPS while you still can. :D
Mmmmm... wine.... 8)
-
topround....
Rich, I just checked airfare....very doable...
Mike....I hope you make it to Rich's gathering...Rich, Carl, Ken, Shane, and all the others in the NC group are a very friendly bunch....their good people. :thumb:
You'll have fun.....and try to make it over to Carl's place....his room is fantastic - best I ever heard...sit in the middle row and get him to play the Peter Gabriel track "Growing Up"....with his acoustic treatments....you'll hear it all around....it's spooky. :rofl:
Happy Travels...... :beer:
-
Rich,
My 1.5 meter of Silkworms are on loan from a friend whe needs to sell them, so I am in the market soon for a 1.5 meter IC. I heard the SC3 and was very impressed.
I will bring a pair of Yamamura 1 meter RCA IC's. They are great in my system.
Copper Silk and I think cardboard.
Mike
-
:thumb: Thanks Steve... will do.
Maybe one 2250 to try some big power on the bass. The woofers are 90dB/8R, with CES raves from sharing only 30wpc between two woofers. But we all know that if 30 is good, 250 must be better. :twisted: The Butler 2250 is one of the best amps in the bass that I've heard. Maybe some cables, I'll let you know.
Thanks! Glad you can make it Steve
I've got the Butler 2250 here if you want me to bring that along as well, Rich... no sense making Steve drag too much stuff.... he's got far enough to drive as it is... takes 30 seconds to load it in the truck....
Sol says we're currently on target to debut the new amps at this get together... if you're up for it and don't mind, you and I need to talk about getting wood frames constructed as the prototypes will be done on a flat piece of aluminum with IEC, RCA/XLR inputs, and binding posts causing wires to stick up in the air like the Bottlehead stuff... but it will be the easiest way to get this done and up running quickly while doing the prototyping..... Sol says he should be ready to start drilling chassis aluminum on Monday for final assembly.....
-
Mike, silk and cardboard sounds very Japanese. You know I love me some Japanese audio! Feastrex are the essence of Japanese audio culture.
Thanks for the offer on the amp Shane. Then Steve doesn't have to stay late waiting for his amp back... Sure, I'll do the boxes for you. I have some birch veneer hardwood cheap plywood from Home depot on hand. It should stain or paint up nice, and hold screws well. Just send me the dimensions of the aluminum plate, including plate thickness, and the interior depth of the box from bottom of plate to floor of box. I'll be in box mode with acoustic panels soon. Do you still have your Harbeth Compact 7s? I was thinking that gear comparisons might be easier with passive speakers. If the OBs crap out we also have a backup. Thanks
Rich
-
Seeing as how I'm so close by, I should definitely be able to make it. Looking forward to it Rich, let me know if there is something I could bring to help out.
-
(http://www.wyred4sound.com/uploads/74030/images-300x300/181469/DAC_BLK_FRONTws.jpg)
Black Sand Audio (http://www.blacksandaudio.com/) is sending a brand new Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 (http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/site/74030/117839/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=457975&b_id=&find_groupid=18157) for us to audition at the G2G. Thanks John! It is much appreciated. This is one of the hottest DACs out there right now, with ESS 9018 DAC chip, (same as Buffalo2 DAC and Oppo BDP-83SE CDP) and Rick Cullen's discreet output stage. I'll get some hours on it before we play. Wish you could join us too, John. Hopefully sometime...
Thanks Scott! Should we setup a HP system in a separate room? Maybe your tube HP amp can come over?
-
(http://www.wyred4sound.com/uploads/74030/images-300x300/181469/DAC_BLK_FRONTws.jpg)
Black Sand Audio (http://www.blacksandaudio.com/) is sending a brand new Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 (http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/site/74030/117839/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=457975&b_id=&find_groupid=18157) for us to audition at the G2G. Thanks John! It is much appreciated. This is one of the hottest DACs out there right now, with ESS 9018 DAC chip, (same as Buffalo2 DAC and Oppo BDP-83SE CDP) and Rick Cullen's discreet output stage. I'll get some hours on it before we play. Wish you could join us too, John. Hopefully sometime...
WOW!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you...John!
I have really been wanting to hear the Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2...and might even be in the market...if it makes a significant improvement.
-
Maybe I can bring a Slagle Autoformer for us to try?
Mike
-
That would be interesting.
(http://www.intactaudio.com/images/Atten_images/modules/slagleformer_134.jpg)
-
Sweet! I'm really looking forward to this.. sounds like there is going to be a lot of gear. Thanks, John for the DAC demo! :)
Rich, I have plenty of the JPS UC2's if you need ic's... just let me know.
Mike, you are welcome to come by and hear my system and room. I think the gear/electronics has improved since Chris heard it but the room is the main thing anyway.. I did everything I know how when I built it... and got lots of help from bpape and Richidoo.
Thanks for the huge compliment, Chris! I hope you can make it here again sometime.
-C
-
The event is being held at Carl or Rich's place.
I looked into flights to Raleigh. If I book a hotel I would like to be near the event.
Carl I understand you like Oban...nuff said.
Mike
-
Thanks Carl. I'm glad you can make it.
Mike, the event is at my place. Hotels are 5-10 miles away. We have plenty of room for you and Andrew to stay at my house, and you are very welcome here. But if you prefer a hotel, let me know I will send you a list of the closest ones.
Rich
-
Carl I understand you like Oban...nuff said.
Mike
I have some really good and unique Whisky right now that I think you might like even better. I only bring it out on special occasions, like when people from far away visit... or it calls to me.. ;) I have a pretty full cabinet right now.. thanks to changing my diet.. so I would like some help emptying it out. The Oban does seem to go quickly, cheers!
:beer:
-C
-
Thanks Scott! Should we setup a HP system in a separate room? Maybe your tube HP amp can come over?
I think I can make that happen. :)
-
Thanks Scott! Should we setup a HP system in a separate room? Maybe your tube HP amp can come over?
I think I can make that happen. :)
Wow Rich this is going to be one hell of a meeting given how long you have spent planning it (since 1974?) :rofl:
You gotta love computers! :duh
-
Wow Rich this is going to be one hell of a meeting given how long you have spent planning it (since 1974?) :rofl:
You gotta love computers! :duh
That's funny, good eye!
When you quote a message, you can change the date stamp on the quote on purpose, or in this probably by accident....
date = seconds elapsed since 8pm 12/31/69
By the way Tom...
:beer: Happy New Year! and don't forget to buy shares of Polaroid
-
Thanks Scott! Should we setup a HP system in a separate room? Maybe your tube HP amp can come over?
I think I can make that happen. :)
Thanks Scott, that will be cool. We will have some nice DACs here for it, and big green velour lazyboy. :thumb:
-
.........and don't forget to buy shares of Polaroid
Bad move. After filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in December 2008, Polaroid's assets were divided amongst two private equity firms, Hilco Consumer Capital and Gordon Brothers Brands. They paid approximately $90 million in 2009 for Polaroids remaining assets. As a private company there are no publicly traded shares and no ticker symbol exists. So Polaroid stock bought in the 1974 would be completely worthless today.
How 'bout this? Buy stock in 1974 Intel instead. In the early 70s, Intel was a small semi-conductor manufacturer whose main business was supplying RAM chips for use in pocket calculators (remember the Bowmar Brain?)
-
Thanks Scott! Should we setup a HP system in a separate room? Maybe your tube HP amp can come over?
I think I can make that happen. :)
Thanks Scott, that will be cool. We will have some nice DACs here for it, and big green velour lazyboy. :thumb:
Great! I think I may have messed up that time stamp when typing the reply on my phone, oops. Quite funny! Tapatalk might be a good recommendation for the forum, I use it on several other forums on the go. It's handy.
-
Thanks for the headsup on tapatalk, Scott. That looks cool. We'll check it out.
-
I hope everyone is ready to jam on Saturday.
1pm until whenever.
Please bring $5 contribution for food, which is Manley burgers and salad. Bring your own booze and sweets and snacks.
Thanks to hometheaterdoc for volunteering to bring Usher Tiny Dancers. They will allow us to do DAC comparisons. Shane please bring Butler 2250 for the Dancers and maybe the ELips bass. i60 seems to be more than enough. Please bring a PC for the Butler and all the balanced ICs you have.
Thanks to Stereofool for bringing AR Ref3 preamp, PC for it, and some balanced SC3 ICs, and some single ended SC3s too.
Thanks to Rob S. for bringing Equitech 1.5Q and Atma-sphere amps. Also need some single ended SC3s and PCs so we can get to work on the setups before the other wires arrive. Please bring your autoformers if they are easy to extract from your system, for matching tube amps to the little Ushers, if necessary.
Thanks to Black Sand Cable for sending his Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 for us to play with. This unit is for sale with a *very* special price for this meet. Orders accepted at this price for G2G attendees only. It sounds very nice. I'm looking forward to the comparisons.
Haven't heard from Sol, so I assume he is knee deep in solder working on the custom tube amps. Really looking forward to hearing them.
The room dividers will be in place. Hopefully I will get to hang some other panels also.
Looking forward to seeing everyone!
Rich
-
I hope everyone is ready to jam on Saturday.
1pm until whenever.
Please bring $5 contribution for food, which is Manley burgers and salad. Bring your own booze and sweets and snacks.
Thanks to hometheaterdoc for volunteering to bring Usher Tiny Dancers. They will allow us to do DAC comparisons. Shane please bring Butler 2250 for the Dancers and maybe the ELips bass. i60 seems to be more than enough. Please bring a PC for the Butler and all the balanced ICs you have.
Thanks to Stereofool for bringing AR Ref3 preamp, PC for it, and some balanced SC3 ICs, and some single ended SC3s too.
Thanks to Rob S. for bringing Equitech 1.5Q and Atma-sphere amps. Also need some single ended SC3s and PCs so we can get to work on the setups before the other wires arrive. Please bring your autoformers if they are easy to extract from your system, for matching tube amps to the little Ushers, if necessary.
Thanks to Black Sand Cable for sending his Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 for us to play with. This unit is for sale with a *very* special price for this meet. Orders accepted at this price for G2G attendees only. It sounds very nice. I'm looking forward to the comparisons.
Haven't heard from Sol, so I assume he is knee deep in solder working on the custom tube amps. Really looking forward to hearing them.
The room dividers will be in place. Hopefully I will get to hang some other panels also.
Looking forward to seeing everyone!
Rich
Have fun guys. And don't forget the NY Ravers like lots and lots of pictures
-
^ I'll remember to take my camera...this time :).
-
^ I'll remember to take my camera...this time :).
All the time
-
^ I'll remember to take my camera...this time :).
All the time
+1 ... We Want Photos !!! :yay2:
Thanks and have fun.... :beer:
-
I could only stop by for a little while today.. and while music was not yet playing, the mental gears were certainly grinding.. and Rich's really cool looking setup was getting configured with DEQX. Right as I was leaving I thought I heard the beginning of things coming together. The 2 seconds I heard sounded nice and I wish I could've stayed.
I saw flash bulbs so no worries on the photos.. there will be some.. Lots of gear there too.. DAC's, headphone, etc. Good times were a'brewin'.
It was a great pleasure to see everyone and wanted to say thanks for hosting, Rich. Looking forward to hearing how it turned out. :)
-C
-
all right... I'm officially fried and beyond exhausted. Way too long a day for me. I'm glad I got that nap before driving out.
Many thanks to Rich for hosting and putting up with us. His woodworking skills are very good. The speaker project looks even more impressive in person. Can't wait to see the next incarnation :)
The room is coming along. It sounded the best it has ever sounded now that some of the panels were up. I know once all the panels are up its going to be a really great sounding room.
We futzed with the new speakers for hours and eventually configured things with DEQX. It played for a little while before we made the switch. The rest of the evening was spent in equipment comparison mode and eventually a little relaxation listening.
We listened to and compared 6 different DACs
Tranquility DAC
Antelope Zodiac+ (only has about 20 hours of break-in time as it was just delivered late this week)
Wyred 4 Sound DAC2
PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC
PS Audio Digital Link III
Rich's Buffalo32 series 1 DAC (pretty stock kit)
Speakers were Usher Audio Diamond 718 bookshelf models as they fit in the back seat of my truck. The tweeters were broken in (I stole them out of my Mini 1s in the theater room), but the rest of them only had about 15 hours of break-in. They held up surprisingly well.
Amplifier was at first Sol's I-60 (played with Tranquility for a little bit at first) and then we switched to the Moscode 402AU and stuck with that for the rest of the night. Tubes in it are Mullard 6922s and the stock 6H30s.
At various points throughout the evening, we brought in the Audio Research Ref 3 tube preamp depending on whether the DAC needed a preamp or not. We listened to the PS Audio PWD and the Antelope Zodiac+ with and without the AR Ref 3. It was pretty much mandatory to let the Zodiac+ be DAC and preamp by itself. It sounded awful with the AR after it. I guess too many volume controls and preamp sections. Most preferred the sound of the PS Audio PWD with the Ref 3 after it to give it a bit more bloom and love. I actually liked it without the preamp, but could definitely see the reasons why folks liked it. On some music, it definitely would be more musical and listenable. I liked the soundstage presentation running direct into the Moscode. The AR moved stuff around in a way that I didn't like quite as much.
Cabling was all JPS Labs SuperConductor 3 interconnects and speaker cable. Power cords were a mixed bag of JPS Labs and Black Sand Audio.
Source devices were Ken's tricked out Mac Mini feeding USB to the Tranquility, the Zodiac+ and both PS Audio DACs. We also used the PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport to feed either I2S, coax SPDIF or AES/EBU to every DAC except the Tranquility, for obvious reasons since it only accepts one USB input. We ran the Wyred DAC 2 via coax, AES/EBU and I2S but did not setup and try the asynch USB. It was a dramatic difference in sound between the three inputs we tried. I2S direct from PWT was far and away the best option.
All music used for listening was 16/44.1 to be fair to all DACs involved since the Tranquility doesn't do high rez...
For me, within the context of this system and given my sound preferences, it wasn't even close as to what I preferred. One DAC was completely incompatible with this system's sonic characteristics. One showed its midrange edginess that we've heard in previous comparisons. One had too squashed a soundstage and dynamics. One showed potential but I'd need to listen to it some more to figure out exactly what was going on. One "prettied things up" and made things more musical and exaggerated the soundstage like Maggies do for me. I can see why some would like it, but it wasn't for me. One was just right to me.
It was a fun night. It was great to see everyone again. After the last few months, it was such a thrill to hang out with my audio buddies and shoot the breeze for 18 hours while we waited for Rich to get his speakers to work ;) hehehe... Sorry Rich, I couldn't resist... I made it all the way to the end of the post at least :) hehehe
-
I can't believe that you wrote when you got home, that's dedication!
Windows Vista screwed me on the speakers. We couldn't make the audiolense filter work. It was just never right. The Feastrex driver always sounded better playing full range all by itself, than with the audiolense convolver processing. So we tried to ditch that and switch to a plain jane digital crossover with no other processing, the only one I ever got working was in foobar, I think that was the best the speakers ever sounded, although it wasn't perfect. Setting utp foobar again from scratch was not successful. Windows Vista was the major impediment. It lost the native ASIO driver, and would not allow ASIO4all to be installed. We couldn't get the output channels to work again. So after a lot of stuggling we gave up on my crossover solutions, and let the DEQX experts take over. It took another solid hour, but then we had a pretty decent configuration, made by Rob and Rick Craig, and Roger. It sounded pretty good, I think it was the best it could be made to sound in that short a time without detailed tweaking. We listened a while and bagged it when every track had a distinct coloration from the Feastrex driver. Not sure yet the cause of that. Obviously the driver had a lot to do with it, and the processing too, does change the natural sound of the driver. Sol worked on a nice parametric equalizer patch that made it sound pretty darn good.
I'll play with it some more, with pllxo, maybe active xo for bass only, stuff like that, and more digital crossover stuff, there are still some other PC based crossover programs I want to try. But the Feastrex may well not be in the final version. It seems best playing by itself in a box designed for it. The Lotus Granada uses a higher version of Feastrex drivers, so maybe that makes it play more linear and handle more power without distortion.
I liked the Tranquility DAC, gentle fat NOS sound, but not edgy or detailed enough for me to own. The Wave was fun at first but the detail became too much for me after a while. The preamp helped dilute it a bit, made the music less hifi and easier to get immersed.
Thanks to everyone who came, especially those who brought gear, and those who brought food. Rob, Shane, Scott, Steve all brought gear to make the G2g a success. Thanks to Rick Craig, Roger, Rob and Sol for working so hard to dial in the Elips. Thanks for the encouragement and compliments about the design and build.
The divider wall made a big difference in cutting down the echo from the kitchen. We did not finish installing all the hardwareto make the folding action work, but eventually all the acoustic treatments will be complete and that will be a big relief.
I had a great time, guys, thanks for making this G2G a big success.
Rich
-
I want to thank Rich and Julie for hosting such a fun and social G2G. I was able to spend a lot of time in the kitchen yesterday afternoon talking with Shane, Steve, Roger, Scott, Carl, Rob and Rick. The other guys were in the audio room working on a very fickle computer.
Rich has done an incredible amount of audio related work in the past few weeks. The new E-Lips Speakers are beautiful. Unfortunately, the computer issues did not allow us to hear the speakers perform and show their potential. I look forward to hearing them when Rich is able to complete the system.
As Shane and Rich previously indicated in their posts their was a tremendous amount of gear carried to this G2G. At or around 6:30PM a decision was made to move the E-Lips Speakers from the room due to the computer issues. From 6:30 until approximately 11:30 we had a serious evaluation of some popular and highly regarded DACs. My Mac Mini Tranquility DAC System was very musical and did not embarrass me (trust me when I say if you bring gear to these our G2G's we will be brutally honest with each other about how we feel about performance). While conducting the DAC Evaluations consideration was given to try and evaluate each units connection options to ensure we gave it the best opportunity to shine.
Shane has already named each DAC evaluated (quite a bunch of work, actually). Grading for flexibility the Tranquility would be at the bottom of the list as it is USB only and has no volume control. Sound-wise it rated it second to the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC. I thought the Perfect Wave was slightly better regardless of the connection type used.
I think most of us were exhausted when we left last night. I was glad I had the opportunity to attend and want to thank Rich and Julie again.
Ken
-
YAWN!!! After getting home last night...with my eyes barely open...I haven't even unpacked the truck/equipment. So, pics will come later :duh.
First, a huge thanks to Rich (and family) for allowing us to 'invade' his happy home...AGAIN!
Rich did a masterful job in constructing his eLips speakers, but as he has mentioned Murphy's Law was in full attendance, and I don't think he ever got them configured with satisfactory results. To my ears the Feastrix just didn't cut it, when pushed just a bit they turned rather harsh and strident..the base drivers actually sounded pretty good, so maybe there is something to salvage there.
Most of the rest of night centered around various DACs. Ken's Tranquility/Mac mini was a very winning combination. Perhaps giving up the last bit of detail, but sounding smooth, relaxed and extremely listenable. It was almost like listening to an LP.
The Zodiac sounded very good, but only as a stand alone preamp/dac. The Wyred 4 Sound was surprising to me, in that it immediately sounded pretty harsh, on all inputs...with the I2S sounding the best. The PS Perfectwave was probably the best sounding of the bunch...very listenable & detailed, without any digital harshness. I threw in my PS DLIII, for a quick comparison, but it didn't measure up as well, in that it wasn't as smooth and detailed, but for $700 it wasn't unlistenable...unlike one of its $1500 competitors.
In summary, thanks to this G2G, I may have saved myself a couple of thousand dollars investing in something that I would have regretted immediately. Unfortunately, it also means that I would have to invest at least $2000+ to improve the sound, over my current DAC :(.
I'll work on pictures after a bit...
-
I'm going to do this the 'easy' way...photos are here :)
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=album;id=71
-
Good idea Steve!
Here's mine, most taken by my daughter.
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=album;id=72
-
Thanks . Puts faces to the names. Whats up with the makeshift acoustic panels ? Any info on them?
-
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5817992.html
It's a compromise treatment, mixing amplitude diffusion of high freqs with bass absorbtion and midrange echo control. This is a do it all method that is not great at any particular task. Specific treatments designed for each task will work much more efficiently. But these sound good, and can cover a lot of area, without too much deadening. A lot of work to DIY. But you can buy them from RPG, via bhphoto. GIK makes more powerful treatments to fix specific problems.
-
And The Meet Goes On... ladda dadda dee.. ladda dadda dah
Day 2 of the meet was very small... Basically Rob dropped by my place for a nice bike ride and to take a listen to my system.. which was non-playable last time he was here. (My speakers were getting new crossovers.) Sorry, no photos, but it looked pretty much the same as always..
It was the first time I'd heard my own system in a month so I was very pleased to be able to sit back and enjoy some tunes. Everything was as cold as it gets when I booted it all up but it opened up after about 30-45 minutes. I really enjoyed just listening to the music, I found myself getting taken away a bit.
Rob brought a really cool concert DVD also.. I couldn't watch it all but it was stunning and a real treat to see... So, thanks for sharing that. 8)
-Carl
-
I was dead on Sunday, but it was worth it. Just what I was looking for to do some serious DAC comparisons and learn some nice stuff about crossovers and room effects in the process. :) I don't know if I want to continue down my path of tweaking the Buffalo DAC DIY designs much more. The tranquility DAC was a winner in the price vs benefit category, relaxing and involving even if it wasn't uber detailed and exactly true to the recording. Good stuff. The PWD was the reference DAC of the evening. It commanded my attention which was entertaining, but I can see how that can get tiring after an album. Think the preamp was possibly on to something.
Also noticed my musical tastes may lean towards the warm to hot midrange tracks. Might have something to do with being intimate with headphones for so long.
Thanks so much for hosting Rich. The great food and conversation made it worth any wait. :)
-
Guys:
Ted Brady (Ted_B on AC) owns or is currently evaluating the Zodiak+ DAC and made the following comments about it after I posted comments in the Tranquility DAC thread this morning:
Good stuff Ken. I'm amazed the Zodiac Plus was even listenable at 20 hrs break in. That DAC is glorious, but not until 200 hours plus (others who have it will attest). Until then it is harsh, flat and midfi. Over 200 hours...wow! (but also 2x the price of the Tranquility standard).
It will be interesting to hear additional comments from Shane as he adds more break-in time to the Zodiak+ and to its performance versus the PS Audio Perfect Wave.
Ken
-
Even if not copletely broken in, I'd be interested in others' impressions of the Zodiac+ at your g2g. Not a lot out there on this DAC yet.
-
Excellent!! Thanks Ken, (and Ted)
Roscoe, I have been following Antelope for more than a year (http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=1688.0). I finally heard one with headphones at Charlotte canfest in summer. It was pretty good, but not as good as the best dedicated head amps there, as expected. Maybe it wasn't broken in yet either. But this was my first time hearing it in a speaker system.
My main impression was that my attention was always drawn to the sibilance in the recording. Others sitting closer to the center said the soundstaging was confusing. Iirc the upper bass was a bit bloated compared to the others. It will be interesting to hear how it ages. Ted knows what he's talking about, and owned just about every great DAC there is.
Rich
-
The Grado GS1000 and PS1000 headphones they were using with the Zodiac + are odd ducks too that I don't really care for so much as well at the Charlotte Canfest. Certainly better though then the Ultrasone Edition 8 they had connected to them in Chicago back in June. I had a listen to them with my own Sennheiser PX-100 mkII phones, wasn't very impressed by that either. I'm noticing that they are constantly picking low impedance phones to put with the internal headphone amplifier at these events. I wonder what would have changed if I had had my Sennheiser HD650 on hand. They might have done themselves a good favor had they connected a separate headphone amp as you say.
-
Took a few days to iron out some home duties, and some system setup with new tweeters, but I must mention.....
DAY 1: GTG at Rich's was a blast for me. I enjoyed meeting some new people, Scott and Roger, along with all the other regulars. Many thanks to Rich and his awesome family for letting me stay there, and also for feeding me. Got to sleep in both mornings with no screaming kids to wake me up, how do you do it Rich? fear of beatings? or superb parenting? lets here your tips....
DAY 2: mini GTG at Carls house..... just me, and Carl popped his head in occasionally. First time hearing Carls system and loved it.... well thought out system integration and of course fantastic room for it. Carl hooked me up with my own personal popcorn bowl and I had free reign of his music library. :) Followed by some more real food..... Prior to the tunes/food, Carl led me on a guided mtn bike tour of some local mtn bike trails, great weather, great riding, great company. Doesn't get much better (unless you're in better physical shape) Thank you Carl for carving out some time for me on Sunday. I'd love to return the hosting should you head up this way.
Any of you AN guys up for a trip up to WV this fall or winter?
Rob S.
-
Guys:
Ted Brady (Ted_B on AC) owns or is currently evaluating the Zodiak+ DAC and made the following comments about it after I posted comments in the Tranquility DAC thread this morning:
Good stuff Ken. I'm amazed the Zodiac Plus was even listenable at 20 hrs break in. That DAC is glorious, but not until 200 hours plus (others who have it will attest). Until then it is harsh, flat and midfi. Over 200 hours...wow! (but also 2x the price of the Tranquility standard).
It will be interesting to hear additional comments from Shane as he adds more break-in time to the Zodiak+ and to its performance versus the PS Audio Perfect Wave.
Ken
I'm still exhausted from Saturday.... man, that seriously wiped me out... other than seeing Carl for a few minutes, I slept the entire day away Sunday. It's Thursday and I still feel like I haven't caught up and got my energy level back up.
To Ken's response.... I hooked the DAC back up on Monday evening as I was too zonked to do it Saturday night or Sunday. It's been running 24/7 since then. I listened for about 20 minutes last night and it sounds much better than it did on Saturday (and it really didn't sound all that bad on Saturday, for what it's worth... not top shelf, but not at all unlistenable)... the extra 48 hours of burn in has helped.
The PS Audio Network Bridges are en route to me from CO. I'll get that loaded into the unit and then have to do a comparison between a PC feeding the Zodiac versus a stand alone streaming unit in the PS Audio.
Ken, want to do our own comparison this weekend or next? We've got the exact same amp, speakers, and cabling here and at your place. Only difference is the room acoustics. Plus I'd like to fiddle a bit more with the Zodiac+ being fed from a Mac product to see if there are any differences. I'm PC only here.....
-
I can't seem to find my red 1.5M BlueJeans Cable coax IC. It has Canare RCAs, bright RED outer jacket and connector covers. Can you guys look through your stash? Thanks
Rich
-
Com'on Rich...how else do you expect us to build up our systems :twisted:!!!
-
Rich:
I hope they turn up! I only brought home the two Black Sands Silver PCs that I took into the house.
Ken
-
Com'on Rich...how else do you expect us to build up our systems :twisted:!!!
Funny! :D I should have suspected you
I remember putting it "somewhere" after the meet, I think... But I just can't remember, I was scatter brained during the meet and hungover the next day when i was cleaning up. It'll show up. If not, time to buck up for the purple wires.
-
Found it, in the base of the right speaker, in the music room. Thanks for looking.
-
Found it, in the base of the right speaker, in the music room. Thanks for looking.
I thought the bases look big from the pictures, but big enough to lose components in? Wow! :rofl:
-
The phase switch on the W4S DAC2 was set to reverse phase during the G2G. This was discovered when John received the DAC. I didn't read the manual or examine the rear panel so it went unnoticed. I don't know if that would affect the sound of the DAC to account for the impressions given here, but it is a possible explanation for the discrepancy between our experience and the positive reviews posted elsewhere. Comments on the effect of phase switch are welcome, especially in regard to DAC2. Thanks!
Rich
-
The phase switch on the W4S DAC2 was set to reverse phase during the G2G. This was discovered when John received the DAC. I didn't read the manual or examine the rear panel so it went unnoticed. I don't know if that would affect the sound of the DAC to account for the impressions given here, but it is a possible explanation for the discrepancy between our experience and the positive reviews posted elsewhere. Comments on the effect of phase switch are welcome, especially in regard to DAC2. Thanks!
Rich
The W4S DAC has been out for a few months now and I would be interested in what folks have found to the best server and connection to this DAC? I would also be interested in hearing from folks that have played around with the phase switch.
Thanks,
Ken
-
I saw this thread on AC this morning. Apparently the W4S needs a very long break in, like 600-1000 hours, and it's a nut case before that. That's a long time for a source component. If you only listen an hour a day you would never hit it! I had it on 24/7 for 3 weeks repeating Frybaby track at night and I think I just brought it up to the shrill stage. Also there appears to be adjustments for the output filter. I didn't notice that. Maybe it is DIPs inside, or software? I started to read the manual when I first hooked it up, but I got distracted and blew it off.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86354.0
-
Wish I would've known.. I would've liked to have heard it (at all) but also in my system.. and I had nothing but burn-in time available in October.