AudioNervosa

Group Therapy => NC Triangulation => Topic started by: hometheaterdoc on November 18, 2009, 01:07:43 PM

Title: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: hometheaterdoc on November 18, 2009, 01:07:43 PM
Guys,

Now that the new Belles pieces have had some time to break in, I thought it might be nice to share them with others and get feedback.  I personally really like them, but want to get a wider perspective from others to give back to Dave.

I had also figured that the Usher Mini 2s would be broken in enough now to let others hear them.... but Ken kept them on me ;) So I don't have those.  We can use the Harbeth Monitor 40.1s and I can pull other pairs of speakers into the room as needed.

What's Saturday looking like for folks?  I'd like to do a small get together if there is enough interest.  i know it's last minute and folks have plans coming up for Thanksgiving.  But if there is enough interest, I'm up for it.  I know Carl wants to compare this with his 21A preamp.  So if we want it at his place or if he wants to do that privately, fine as well. 

This would be a laid back affair.  Maybe order a couple pizzas for grub.  Nothing elaborate and not a lot of gear swapping.

I have the new Oppo special edition blu-ray player with the ESS DAC chips as well that is breaking in as I write this.  A chance to hear that as well back to back with audio PC and stock Oppo player.

Let me know your thoughts...
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: Bigfish8 on November 18, 2009, 01:38:36 PM
Quote
What's Saturday looking like for folks?  I'd like to do a small get together if there is enough interest.  i know it's last minute and folks have plans coming up for Thanksgiving.  But if there is enough interest, I'm up for it.  I know Carl wants to compare this with his 21A preamp.  So if we want it at his place or if he wants to do that privately, fine as well.

Dr. Sol is coming over to my house sometime on Saturday to help investigate my hum issue which seems to be related to my preamp.  After a diagnosis is delivered (gulp) I would love the opportunity to hear your new Belles 22A.  If you decide to definitely have a meet please advise of the time?

Shane/Guys, I just could not let the Ushers leave my house. :thumb:  Sorry (not really) that they won't be available for your listening pleasure Saturday Evening.

Thanks,

Ken
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: richidoo on November 18, 2009, 01:52:41 PM
I can come on Sat.  Thanks Shane

I want to have a meet at my place soon, but the acoustic treatments are still not installed, so it is not ideal listening.  If you want to do it here I am willing, or else I will host in Dec or Jan.
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: Carlman on November 18, 2009, 02:01:29 PM
I'm not sure if we have any plans.. And I like the idea of a the Preamp comparo.. And I was thinking.. maybe we could do a dual-location meet?  Maybe have the first half at your place, I'll bring the 21A.. then listen for a while.. and then come down the street to my place and hear the same comparison on my system.  I was thinking that'd be a fun experiment because (as Shane has experienced) the outcome of these comparisons can vary greatly from his system to mine...

Plus, I really want to hear the 2 pre's in my room. :)

Or we could have the G2G here.. whatever is fine by me.. but I would like to run it by the little woman before commiting.  

Or we could have it at Shane's.. it's all fine to me.. just throwing some ideas out there.

-Carl


Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: hometheaterdoc on November 18, 2009, 02:53:58 PM
I like the idea of the meet at two places... from time X to time Y at my place and time Y to time Z at Carl's... get to hear the same gear in two different rooms with the only difference between them being speakers and acoustics....  great idea if we can swing it...

If we really limit the amount of gear swapping to just be the two preamps, then I think that is definitely do-able... I've got enough SC3 interconnects and speaker cables fully broken in here that we could set stuff up ahead of time.  That way we only have to carry the Belles amp and two preamps between the houses and spend a couple minutes hooking stuff up again.

Two things:

1) I need to swap in a couple 12AU7 tubes in the 22A to see which are the best. Either that or I put in a pair of RT tubes so both Carl's 21A and the 22A have the same tubes as well for consistency sake.

2) It might behoove us to have me bring over the Ref 150A between now and Saturday just to make sure it's got enough power for your speakers, Carl... if we do my house first and then finish up at yours, I can leave whatever behind over there for you to do your comparison with all your electronics and cables... if the Belles doesn't have the juice to work with your speakers, it won't be as close a comparison... another element added into things... ........or we just say to heck with it and do whatever is easiest..

I'm open to anything...

What's the best time to start all this on Saturday?  4PM? 5PM? 6? etc... 
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: RichardS on November 18, 2009, 03:42:48 PM
I can probably make it. I like the idea of two rooms/ systems. The earlier the better for me (I vote for 4 pm)....
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: Carlman on November 18, 2009, 07:00:22 PM
Looks like this will work, our house is your house.  I'll call Shane and work out details tomorrow or Friday.
:)

Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: stereofool on November 18, 2009, 07:46:10 PM
I can come and play  :D :D!
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: hometheaterdoc on November 19, 2009, 06:57:49 AM
all right... we're set then on the general theme and plan.  I'll get in touch with Carl to work out all the minor details.

Let's start at my place on Saturday afternoon.  Anytime after 3PM is fine for folks to wander in.  Official start is 4PM.  We'll stay there until everyone has shown up and had a chance to listen to the pieces in the sweet spot.... some brief swaps back and forth and then we'll wander over Carl's way for the rest of the evening.

This will be a very different sonic experience both because our rooms are different, but also because our speakers are very different and setup for different kinds of presentations...

Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: Carlman on November 19, 2009, 07:17:14 AM
I agree, and my only requirement is that my speakers stay exactly where they are.  I've settled on my balance of compromises with their precise location.  whew!

It'll definitely be interesting and fun.  I'll call you later today and work out what we're doing.. btw, I think 150 might be enough power for these speakers. Was the other Belles amp a 100?  The one I tried didn't synergize with the Piega's as well as the Mac, though, nor did it have enough oomph.  I think the Piega's need a touch of romance or whatever color the Mac has to sound like real music.

To isolate the differences of the preamp, it might be better to do the comparison at my place, just swapping out the pre, rather than trying it with the Bells amp too.. but I'll leave that to the group to decide... or maybe we could do a pre-listen to determine what that'd sound like?  Like I said, we'll work it out..

-C
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: hometheaterdoc on November 21, 2009, 05:29:59 AM
Everyone,

It's meeting day!  Carl and I have talked about this a bit and we're both in the "let's make this as easy as possible" frame of mind.

So here's the breakdown:

Meeting starts at my place at 4PM.  Folks are more than welcome to come early.  Carl will bring over his preamp sometime after lunch so we can have it here and get it ready to be played.

This meeting will be about 3 things:

1) A chance to hear the new Belles preamp and power amp (22A and new Ref 150A) in general.  We can swap a couple tubes in the preamp if folks want to see how amenable it is to tube changes. 

2) As long as folks are up for it, a comparison of the 21A preamp that Carl has with the new 22A.  Carl has Radio Technique tubes in his preamp.  So I've put RT tubes in the 22A and have been playing it non-stop since yesterday in hopes of having my new tubes be opened up enough.  Listening right now I'm not sure I like them quite as much as the RCAs... but they definitely have some good traits and I can see why carl would like them in his setup.

3) Again, for those that are interested, we can compare a stock Oppo 83 blu-ray player with the new 83 special edition that has the ESS Sabre 32 DAC chip built in for 2 channel playback.  We can also compare it with my audio PC feeding the modded Buffalo DAC kit via AES/EBU.

Once we're done listening back and forth at my place, whenever folks are ready, we can move over to Carl's place so we can do the preamp comparison again in his system.  The only piece of gear that will go over to Carl's is the preamp.  We're leaving his system completely intact.  We talked about swapping out cables, amps, DACs, etc.  But we thought it would be more beneficial to him and in general to see how the preamp sounds in a different system, not just a different acoustical space.  We can bring along the Oppo for those folks that want to spin disks and if you like the Oppo as Carl doesn't really have a high end player other than audio pc, right Carl?

If anyone needs directions or other info, please PM me or give me a call. 

I have some basic munchies for folks and a fridge full of beer and soda I would *really* like folks to help me empty out.  Rich, there's Newcastle for you as well.  No need to bring your own ;)  I'm leaning towards the pizza thing.  But I'll wait until we all get here to decide.

See you all soon!
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: richidoo on November 21, 2009, 07:06:46 AM
Rich, there's Newcastle for you as well.  No need to bring your own ;) 

You're swell guy Shane! Thanks man!!  :D  You read my mind.

Looking forward to seeing everyone, and hearing some new gear.

Let each preamp choose its best tube, according to its own circuit - then compare the total circuits with the whatever tubes work best in each. Then you are comparing the highest potentials of each preamp. The tubes don't have to be the same to get a fair comparison. Of course each of you might choose different tube for a given preamp, but so might you choose different SS preamps per your taste, and we would still compare them. So just pick your fav tubes and lets play em at their very best according to the owner's preference.  You both have distinct taste and great ears, so the preamps will sound their very best with that huge collection of tubes to choose from.

A little eye candy:
(http://www.powermodules.com/power_modules/150a__reference_amp_files/150A_ref.jpg)
http://www.powermodules.com/power_modules/150a__reference_amp.html

Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: stereofool on November 21, 2009, 08:49:32 PM
Thanks to Shane and Carl...for their hospitality, again  :)!

It was great to see you guys, and to get to listen to some very nice systems. Each has their own strengths, and both sounded great.
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: Bigfish8 on November 22, 2009, 05:09:56 AM
A very special thank you to Shane and Melissa and to Carl and Christine for hosting a joint G2G last night. :thumb:  I had a great time and it was really nice to have the opportunity to catch-up with everyone.

The audio day actually started for me quite early with Dr. Sol paying a visit to soder a couple of resistors into my Transporter.  After that task Sol was able to diagnose my hum problem and made some mods. to the power supply of the preamp - hum gone. :thumb:  After the repairs we spent some time listening to my system and then switched-in his I-60 amp.  We connected the ModWright modified Transporter directly to the I-60 driving the Usher Dancer Mini II's.  Wow :thumb:   :thumb: The I-60 drove the Usher's with authority, produced a very detailed clean sound with excellent bass control.  Sol said he has a couple of little additional tweaks planned for the amp.  Once completed I would certainly like to hear it connected in my system again.

Our mission for this G2G was to compare the older Belles 21A to the new Belles 22A Preamp on Shane's and then on Carl's system.  The source used at both locations was a Oppo BluRay Player with the factory installed Buffalo DAC Chip.  Shane used a Belles 150A Amp driving Harbeth 40.1's.  At Carl's we listened to the system with a Scott Nixon Tube DAC in the chain some of the time and with out it part of the time.  Carl was driving Piega speakers with his big McIntosh Amp.  Two very different and excellent sounding systems.  

Carl prefers a vintage Radio Technique 12AU7 Tube in his Belles 21A and therefore both preamps were compared with these tubes in Shane's system.  Both preamps sounded excellent but the group slightly preferred the 22A at Shane's.  Everyone commented that the 22A was definitely quieter and slightly preferred it.  We moved over to Carl's and the 21A was the preferred preamp with the Radio Technique Tubes.  Later in the evening Shane rolled two different vintages of RCA tubes into the 22A and the second group brought a whole new presentation from it.  While personally I am a tube roller, this was just another eye/ear opening experience of the differences one can achieve by rolling in different tubes.  

I look forward to the opportunity to evaluate the Belles 22A in my system (Shane told me it will not be soon as I need some time to let the dust settle from the speaker purchase :duh).  This preamp is quiet and so very detailed!

Guys, it was a lot of fun and thank you again.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Ken

Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: Carlman on November 22, 2009, 06:44:18 AM
Definitely a fun meet.. I know a lot of us were tired (self included) from long days so it was nice to relax and casually observe differences.  If I heard differences, they'd have to be pretty big. ;)  And big they were!  

At Shane's: The 22A sounded snappy to me, with good impact and dynamics.  I talked to Steve about this and he made a good point that the soundfloor was lower which let a lot of those things happen.  The 22A is definitely quiet so I could see that.. When we compared the 21A I thought it was softer, 'prettier' but less resolving overall.  I liked the sound actually but Shane's system would benefit from the 22A's sound.  I likened the change to a tube rolling difference.

At my place: The 22A sounded lean and hard with Radio Techniques tube.. then with the RCA black plates, much better but still hifi sounding.  Then he put in the long gray plate RCA's and THAT was the magic.  At that point I could say I actually liked the 22A.  Up to that point I wasn't getting it.  This tube/pre combo was too lush at Shane's which makes sense.  The Piega's are the polar opposite of the Harbeth's in my opinion.  To me the Harbeth's are a musical speaker with detail available if you're interested whereas the Piegas construct every little detail to where you listen into the music.  

We then compared DAC's.. The Oppo Special/Sabre edition, Rich's Buffalo DAC, and my Scott Nixon.  The Oppo shined in the bass and presented more information than the other 2 DAC's.  It wasn't colored in any way.  It was a 1:1 cd to music sort of thing.. I plan to listen to it some more today if I can to get a better grip on what it does.  In comparison, the Buffalo had a thinner, flatter presentation that lost some imaging joy I got from the Oppo..  Then the SN had a similar level of dynamics to the Buffalo but rounded the individual instruments and had a little more romantic presentation.  It brought back some imaging magic for me also.. but the Oppo was king in this comparison in absolute terms.

BTW, we also spun a couple of records.. I recently acquired the 'Illinoise' album by Sufjan Stevens and I'm so glad I did.  Modern vinyl is a crap shoot.  Most of the time it's crap.  They just eq it for cd then make a gimmick/novelty vinyl version off the same master I think.  But in this case it actually sounded beatiful and correctly eq'd.  I breathed a sigh of relief.  I love the vinyl sound when it's done right... I would consider getting into it a lot more if I could get more music (I like) in it.  It's almost as bad as finding Blu-Rays of movies I like recorded in 7.1. ;)

In any case, great meet, great learning experience.. I think the theme was 'find what works/synergizes in your system'.

Thanks to everyone for making it so enjoyable.  It was a pleasure to see you all.

-Carl


Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: hometheaterdoc on November 22, 2009, 07:44:26 AM
Thanks to everyone for stopping by and having a listen.  It really was great to see everyone and catch up a bit on what is happening. 

I really liked the combined meet as we got to hear very different systems.  It gave me a broader perspective on what the component that was being compared was actually doing and how it affected everything else in the chain to produce the end result, the music.

At my house, the RT tubes are not my favorite.  They get right to the edge of too much high frequency without tipping over completely into the type of sound that makes me run from the room.  They also, unfortunately, highlight the bottom end issues that still exist in my room.  The RCA black plates are the balance for me.  They roll off the top a bit so I can listen long term and have a really tight bottom end that doesn't show off the deepest bass issues.  But folks in attendance wanted the RT tubes.. so it ended up being a good thing as it meant we were using the same tubes in each preamp.

At my house, I only listened off to the side and at the back of the room during the head to head comparison.  So I couldn't compare imaging or soundstaging definitively.  Just general impressions given the limits that I was under.  What I could hear and was immediately apparent switching between the two units is that the noise floor is quite a bit higher with the 21A.  Could it be age of the unit, some simple part swapping by Dr. Sol to make it comparable?  The circuits are pretty different between the two units.  Who knows.  But that translated into less detail retrieval, less dynamic swing, and a more mushed up kind of sound even from my compromised position.  The 21A started clearing the room before we even finished the comparison.  I don't know how much of that was people that were snack and beer deprived, the short attention span of us, or if we were just bored of comparisons.  I'll be curious to do it again on the Ushers when they get here because I definitely preferred the 22A to the 21A in this system with the Harbeth's.

Over to Carl's we went after listening to Sol's I60 again.  Major, major improvement over previous iterations.  It's still a touch too hot for me.  But it's definitely getting there.  The Harbeth's sucked up the juice in it a bit too much.  I can see why Ken liked this on his more efficient Ushers.  It's almost there Sol....

At Carl's, he setup the preamps, etc while the rest of us downed some pizza.  It's hard work this listening to music.  We're growing boys and we work up an appetite with all the exertion.  We came into the room to the Oppo feeding his Nixon DAC into the 22A via his cabling.  I personally hated the sound.  It was extremely thin, yet still kind of fuzzy and was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too hot up top.  But wait!   There's more!  We tried running straight to the preamp from the Oppo instead of going through the Nixon DAC.  Big mistake.... It was downright unlistenable.  Interesting that folks really liked this combo of source and preamp at my place and it was immediately turned off in Carl's setup.  We listened for a while and because Richard had to go, we jumped right into a mini comparison.

In this instance, the 22A with RT tubes produced a way too lean overall sound in Carl's setup.  It didn't have the same front to back depth it did in my setup.  The 21A again was much higher in the noise floor.  But it was needed, imo in the context of this system.  The noise helped mask the sound.  It was a much fuzzier, more globbed together and mashed up sound that overall had reduced detail and dynamics.  The subtle things that you could hear with the 22A (although they were too much to take in Carl's system) were not there with the 21A.  But you could actually listen with this setup.  I wanted the separation and detail of the 22A but I didn't want the lean presentation.

This started us down a road of trying to change things up to improve the sound with the 22A.  We first tried the RCA black plate tubes.  Much better but still not there yet.  We bypassed the Nixon DAC in this setup by adding a set of SC3 interconnects to go directly from Oppo to preamp.  Much better again.  But now we had a hum issue.  Some swapping around and deduction revealed that there is a ground loop somewhere in Carl's setup.  But using Oppo straight to preamp with no other components hooked up got rid of it. 

We listened some more and then before hooking up the vinyl, I swapped in another set of tubes that were too lush in the context of my setup, RCA long plates.  That was it!  All the positives of the 22A but a warmth, texture, and body I've never heard from Carl's system.  I believe the quote was "lush without being syrupy".  For the first time ever, I actually liked the sound of Carl's speakers.  I don't say that to offend.  He and I value different things in the final sound.  Just like he doesn't really like the Harbeths, I've been unable to get on board with the Piegas.  No problem with either approach.  Over time I've learned to appreciate some of the things the Piega's do.  But I would never say I'd own a set.  The combination last night might make me re-think things.  HUGE soundstage that made the speakers completely disappear.  Slam, dynamic swing, subtle details and shading coming through.... the music came to life and was very real sounding for the first time.  Nothing was covered up or masked, yet so incredibly listenable.  Just magic. 

We then did a mini source comparison with Carl's PC feeding his Nixon DAC playing the same tune we were spinning on the Oppo.  The analog outs of the Oppo fed the preamp and the digital out of the Oppo went into Rich's Buffalo DAC kit and out to preamp.  I preferred the Oppo straight into preamp.  For $900 and the flexibility it provides, the Oppo is a great little piece.  The SACD multi channel out isn't as good as straight two channel out, but it's quite good for the price class.  It's better than any other $900 player I've listened to and it has the bonus of also playing bluray, DVD, media files, SACD, DVD-A, and regular CD... someone needs to mod it to have a digital input so an audio PC or squeezebox like device could feed it and people would be set for not a lot of coin.  It's not as good as some top end players and transports... but it definitely plays above it's paygrade.....

We then played some vinyl... it sounded like garbage ;)... so that was my queue to leave.  Sorry I couldn't stay for the I60 demo in Carl's system.  I wanted to hear it but I feared that folks would hear my snoring over the music if I stayed any longer...

Thanks again to everyone that attended.  It was a lot of fun and I really enjoy hanging out with the lot of ya.  Looking forward to doing it again soon.  Happy Holidays!
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: richidoo on November 22, 2009, 08:14:37 AM
Thank you Shane and Melissa, Carl and Christine for opening your homes to us marauding hordes. Yummy food booze and tubes.

I liked the Belles 21A better on both systems. It got the trumpets right. Just seemed more alive and pure in the areas that are important to me. But it was a little noisier and grungier way in the background. That didn't bother me except in the very low level spots where there should be silence. The 22A was tizzier on the edges of bright brass, I did not hear that on the 21A but it may have been there a little bit, there was no pure tube preamp with which to compare the Belles pres. Looking inside there were more of those scary looking transistor heatsinks in the 22 (3 larger transistors per channel - arranged like driver into PP?) than the 21A (2 smaller transistors sharing one sink per channel - PP?) The Belles 150A is a sweet amp. Great synergy with the 22A. The 21A had a special synergy with the Mac and Piegas.

(http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83SE/images/Blu-ray-BDP-83SE_leftangle.jpg)
The Oppo BD-83SE Special Edition Blu-Ray Player (http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83SE/) with Sabre32 upgrade seems like a nice player for the money. Modding the output with some nice caps could make it a real killer. For the money it is already truly excellent. Would be fun to compare it to mdconnelly's Oracle stack sometime ;)

Sol's i60 had a nice showing on both systems. It's finally approaching the finish line. The overall clarity is striking. Tone is excellent, bass control good (tweak coming for that, maybe today!) Power was enough for both of last night's moderate load speakers. The Mac really showed its balls tho. You just can't beat 500+W.

It was great to see everyone. I have an image of Shane's cable bazaar laid out on the living room floor, every JPS cable in the catalog,  all laid out in different pretty colors, including the most lovely purple. Definitely very tempting presentation. But if I brought any home I would be hung with it.
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: mdconnelly on November 22, 2009, 08:53:43 AM
Damn, sorry I couldn't make it yesterday.   I was family-challenged and there was no breaking away.     

Rich, I will have to do another G2G at my place.  With the DAC1000, SC3 speaker cables and XLR ICs between DAC1000 and amp, and the Alan Maher power toys, I'm definitely loving what I'm hearing.  And I could certainly bring the Oracle gear to other G2Gs.

At this point, I think I'm going on a Nervosa sabbatical (well, at least until I sell the Tact and my previous JPS biwire speaker cables).  Short of replacing my 10Ts, I think the only way up is room treatment and that will likely create a few new family-challenges all by itself.  I will say that the one thing I'll miss about the Tact was the ease by which I could quickly measure room response as I shifted things around.   Short of using my ears (which have proven to be a bit untrustworthy at times ;-), what do others use to measure in-room response?
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: richidoo on November 22, 2009, 09:03:39 AM
http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ - FREE
http://www.etfacoustic.com/ - powerful!
http://www.juicehifi.com/ - FREE, creates room correction files to use with your Duet>DAC1000

We missed you Mike! See you soon.
Rich
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: mdconnelly on November 22, 2009, 09:35:17 AM
Thanks Rich!  Always knew that stuff was out there but never bothered looking while I was using the Tact.
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: hometheaterdoc on November 22, 2009, 09:50:41 AM
We missed you, Mike!  Seeing as you are the most current with the Oracle sound, it would have been good to temper our enthusiasm over the pieces we were auditioning...

One neat thing that kept popping into my head as we were listening is that this, with the exception of the speakers being used, is the most sanely priced equipment list we've used in a while:

$900 Oppo player
$800 Audio PC (including Lynx card for AES/EBU) feeding ~$700 Buffalo DAC kit
Carl's $250 Dell feeding Nixon tube dac (not sure of $$ but not super expensive)

$2495 22A tube preamp
$2995 (original MSRP when still a current product) 21A preamp

$2295.00 Ref 150A amplifier

While not a $299 home theater in a box, it wasn't anywhere near the price class of some of the stuff we've listened to in the past...

I really think you could get a heck of a full range complete stereo system for $10K brand new including floorstanding Ushers and upper end JPS Labs cabling (or the smaller Harbeth)...  I know some people would fall over or laugh it up at the thought of spending $10K on a stereo... but that isn't really a massive investment to get the kind of sound possible out of these pieces given what some of this stuff costs today...  is it as good as the upper end stuff?  nope... but the gap between them isn't as big as it was in the past...



Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: richidoo on November 22, 2009, 10:05:25 AM
Despite a handful of threads about the new Belles stuff, it had not sunk in that the Belles stuff was THAT inexpensive. Definitely punching above their weight, especially the amp. Very refined and powerful sounding without much of a personality. Looking forward to hearing it on other systems in the months ahead.

No wonder I liked the 21 better - it cost more!  ;)
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: Carlman on November 22, 2009, 11:23:25 AM
I forgot to mention Sol's amp.. At that point I was pretty tired but the sound got my attention in a good way.. I've heard many iterations and I've always been able to find something about it that irritated me.. not this time.  It really sang and I enjoyed it on the Piega's.  Since the crossover upgrade, they present a much easier load.  I didn't hear any real issues and it was a true joy to listen to.. thanks for bringing it, Sol!

Also, quick correction, Rich..  the Mac is the MC402, 400 wpc, not 500..

-C
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: richidoo on November 22, 2009, 12:24:47 PM
I read somewhere that the 402 actually made 540W@8ohms. Sorry I can't find the reference at this moment.
Title: Re: Get Together on Saturday?
Post by: Carlman on November 22, 2009, 06:12:25 PM
It's 'rated' at 400wpc but is able to produce more. :)  I don't think they publish what 'more' is, though. ;)