Author Topic: A controversial post.....  (Read 12737 times)

Offline Rocket

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A controversial post.....
« on: January 26, 2007, 07:58:19 PM »
Hi Guys,

I'm testing the waters here at Audionervosa with this post.  During my time on Audiocircle i never really told the complete truth regarding different products as i never wanted to start a flame war or upset other members of the community.

A few years ago i built an aksa 100 nirvana plus amplifier from kit form.  I used the amplifier and it sounded very good in my system.  It wasn't the most transparent amplifier but it really had my foot tapping when i listened to my system.

I decided to sell it and went and bought a few different amplifiers and here are my thoughts on these amplifiers.

Ps Audio hca 2 - In its unmodded form this amplifier is a real stinker imo.  Please tell me why it received a class a stereophile rating?  I read many many professional and forum related reviews of this amplifier.  In total there was 1 negative review and this person was correct with the faults of the amplifier.  

I had to modify the amplifier to get it to sound good in my system.  Recently it was favourably compared to nuforce ref 9 se but obviously it wasn't quite as good  :) .

Odyssey Khartago - I bought a brand new amplifier from the australian distributor on the proviso if i didn't like it i could return it for a trade.  This amplifier just didn't sound any good in my system at all.  It lacked transparency which was my main concern and just didn't sound musical.  In my opinion i wouldn't have described it as an audiophile amplifier.  It didn't sound as good as my n.e.w. 20.1 ($750us rrp), aksa amplifier or modded ps audio hca - 2.

Spread Spectrum Technologies Son of Ampzilla.  This is an interesting amplifier imo.  It took me a long time to get used to its sound.  It provides transparency, excellent dynamics and bass in my system.  It isn't quite as transparent as my ps audio but sounds more enjoyable to listen to and is probably a bit more tubey sounding imo.  If i could fault this amplifier its probably not as exciting to listen to as my old aksa but is much more refined.

So after spending thousands of dollars of my hard earned money i finally found an amplifier i could live with.

The question i'm asking is as follows;  Why do so many people get these reviews wrong or am i not hearing something?  

Thanks

Rod

Offline Carlman

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2007, 05:09:32 AM »
Rod,
I'm not sure... I cannot for the life me understand why 2 brands you mentioned above get the praise for sound quality that they do; Nuforce and Odyssey.  Both the Odyssey and Nuforce amps have their strengths but they aren't strengths I prefer in my system.  Specifically, the Odyssey sounds 'sterile' or 'unmusical' to me...  The Nuforce has strong bass and also didn't 'connect' with me musically.  To me, neither deserve the glowing reviews/fan base they have, though.  I can understand how good customer service can influence the 'psycho-acoustics' though and I've read many good stories of Odyssey's great CS.  

The HCA I don't understand... Could it be that they have bad QC?  Is the design at fault or the assembly and/or parts quality?  If the latter, I wonder if 2 HCA's would compare differently?

Not sure what the deal is... but what some people connect with vs. others that do not is the subjective nature of this hobby.  

Right now on Audionervosa, we have no manufacturers... Not one has a stake in Audionervosa or uses it for marketing.  I'd like Audionervosa to always be about the truth... Posting a bad review is OK here.  Maybe that's the right direction to take AN... the voice of truth! :)

I hope everyone feels free to talk about anything you want here. (other than debates on religion and politics)...

Thanks,
Carl
I really enjoy listening to music.

WEEZ

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2007, 05:37:51 AM »
Hi Rocket,

Opinions differ 'all over the place' over certain gear. Take the little Bryston B60, for example. Read the reviews @ AudioReview; read the professional reviews; read all the 'talk' on the forums; then go listen to one.

Depending on the speaker you match with it, you'll either agree with the positive reviews...or you'll agree with the negative ones. :)

I happen to think it's a great little amplifier with the right speaker. Maybe even the best sounding in Bryston's line (uh-oh). But don't use one with a highly damped speaker..... [-X

Read the thread about amplifiers and speakers in this 'ward' below....

WEEZ

opnly bafld

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2007, 08:54:30 AM »
I wish I could have experienced some of Odyssey's reputation for great CS, but in the end I am glad I took a bath on a pair of Khartago monoblocks because I ended up with some Monarchy Audio hybrid monoblocks.
IMO the Monarchy's have MUCH better synergy with MY speakers than the Odyssey's did in the short time I had them.

As far as reviewers are concerned, I have learned that some for me, no matter what they say about a product I am probably not going to believe it and there are others (very few) that if they say black is white I will probably believe it until I hear, with my own ears, otherwise.
IMO many of the glossy reviewers contradict themselves over time.
I read in review A that the product does not do this and that and reads as if they don't really like it, but it is highly recommended.
In review B to me it reads as if they really like it, but the conclusion is, it is OK.
BTW product A retails for $50,000 and product B retails for $5,000
These are all just my opinion and your opinion may be different and that is OK with me.

Lin
 :D

Offline Bunky

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2007, 12:09:24 PM »
I own Odyssey extreme SE monoblocks which have been upgraded with the full warranty by Alex @ Odyssey with Nichicon Muse capacitors  and Fairchild hexfreds and wired internally with Groneberg TS premium cables and they are outstanding power Amplifiers as far as i am concerned. the standard plain vanilla Odyssey power amplifiers may not sound as good as some of the other gear out there but you cant really beat them at thier price point. if you are willing to buy Odyssey Amplifiers higher up the ladder of options you will be rewarded with much better performance. the Candela tube linestage is a great piece of gear that costs alot less than it should based on its sonics,build and parts Quality. i own a BAT VK 3i and a Anthem pre1L and my Candela tube linestage is a much better preamplifier than either the VK 3i or the Pre1L. the Candela uses parts by Sonicap,Vishay,Fairchild etc..... i also own a pair of Odyssey Lorelei's that use Scanpeak 8545 midwoofers and 9500 silk dome tweeters and a world class crossover from Symphonic Line in Germany. the Lorelei's retail for a modest $2800 dollars and are very good loudspeakers for the money. Klaus Bunge is a good business man and a even better human being and he offers entry level gear at modest prices for those who are just testing the waters or cant afford higher priced gear but he also offers options that can take a basic building block to a much higher level of performance.i respect everyones opinions but i am just pointing out that every coin has two sides to it. thanks....WCW III  :wink:
Remember, information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not music; music is the best.
-- Frank Zappa

Offline Bunky

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2007, 02:34:15 PM »
Quote from: "opnly bafld"
Bunky,

Everybody already knows you are in love with Klaus.
You don't have to post it here.

Lin

PS Carl, if you need to you can delete this post, I just get tired of Bunky's love letters. :x
Lin, i know thru PMs @ AC that you had a bad experience with Odyssey and i cant blame you for being pissed off because of it.i liked you before and i continue to like you now.Audio is subjective so my opinion VS your opinion does not really matter. it is up to the end user to determine what thier likes and dislikes are.i see on your signature that you have a SAS 10A preamplifier. i came very close to buying one but my VK 3i had spoiled me with the remote control and that was the only reason i chose the Candela over the SAS 10A. i dont see any reason why Carl should delete your previous post.i get the fact that this is a open forum and anyone should be able to post what ever they want regarding Audio.thanks....WCW III
Remember, information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not music; music is the best.
-- Frank Zappa

Offline Carlman

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2007, 02:56:44 PM »
Audionervosa is an open forum for ALL audio discussion, which includes differences of opinions, experiences, etc.  As long as it's ABOUT audio.. and not just throwing mud and calling names and that sort of thing...

You see how the iron fist at that 'other forum' has us trained?  

Be happy you're here, be free. :)
I really enjoy listening to music.

opnly bafld

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2007, 04:53:21 PM »
Bunky,

Even before I had any experience at all with Odyssey I found your posts a bit over the top.

I may be wrong, but I think, in part, Rocket was talking about people waxing poetic about how great product x (esp. with a manufacturers circle) is without hearing from many, if any, that disagreed.

He posted something that included Odyssey, then I reacted to something he wrote and here you come defending Odyssey like you are the owner, with your sweat, blood, and money at stake.
You called it the other side of the coin, but that was EXACTLY what I understood was one of the things Rocket was referring to and WE were the other side of the coin.

Lin :D


PS I promise to try and make my next post something more about Audio. Whether it is something useful or not remains to be seen.  :lol:

lonewolfny42

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2007, 12:45:51 AM »
What it comes down to.....you have to listen for yourself to find out if a product is right for you.
I understand that some can't do this because of where they live....no dealers or others owning the product....so you're on your own.
Look....I own a lot of equipment....is there one perfect piece....no. I've not heard it yet. And were not all looking for the same thing. But I do enjoy what each piece does well.....and I'm happy with that. 8)

Offline Rocket

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2007, 03:11:58 AM »
Hi Guys,

One of the reasons why i want to frequent this forum is to be able to  provide an honest opinion of a product that i've heard which hopefully will benefit other members.   My specific reason for posting was to test the waters here at Audionervosa to ascertain if there is a better mentality here.

I've found on AC i have had to be careful what i write as many posters become emotional and at times abusive regarding differing opinions and i have found over time that i'm not posting as much anymore.

I think the odyssey khartago is a better sounding amplifier than a ps audio hca - 2 (which is twice the price of the khartago).  Although if i compare it to an n.e.w. 20.1 ($750us rrp a company which is now defunct) it isn't as good imo.

Unfortunately i am in the position where i can't easily demo all the products i get to hear about on AC and other forums.  For example i'd love to hear a van alstine ultimate 70 amplifier.

Thanks for listening to my thoughts and opinions.  Btw i'm having a break from buying anymore audio as i've spent a lot of money in the last couple of years.  I will be hanging out on this forum as i really respect some of the guys here.

Regards

Rod

Marbles

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2007, 03:33:33 AM »
Rod,

I'm not surprised at your findings in the least.  I think before you bought the Khartago, you asked me what I thought and my reply was something like I didn't think you would be happy with the bottom of the Oddysey line and you might be happier with something up line a lot more.

I have not tried the Khartago in my system, but I've heard it at a show or two.

I owned the Stereo Stratos and it had some extra sizzle on top (IMO).

It wasn't until I got the dual mono where I started to enjoy the amp, and that's now an HT amp for my side surrounds.

There are plenty of amps that are better than Oddysey...I'm glad you are looking at some that are made a lot closer to your home.  Some that are better are more expensive, some are less.

Anyone can find a good expensive bottle of wine, the trick is to find a good inexpensive one.

I think AC does a good job in finding the good inexpensive wines (audio gear), but it's not perfect and there will always be good inexpensive ones that need to be given more exposure.   Of course there are good expensive ones that could use more exposure, but they aren't nearly as fun to find.

Offline Bunky

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2007, 03:42:44 AM »
AudioNervosa should be a breath of fresh air and not some repressive click where you have to be careful what you say or face the wrath of a moderator if your opinion does not mesh with his or that of his friends.members should be able to say what they think in the context of Audio related matters. if everyone agreed on everything ,which would never happen anyway, how boring would that be ? and what would be the point and why bother with starting a brand new Audio forum anyway? i want to be able to agree to disagree with anyone on any subject and let it go and move on to the next subject. i think that this is the kind of freedom that Carlman is offering us and i am all for it! thanks....WCW III
Remember, information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not music; music is the best.
-- Frank Zappa

Marbles

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2007, 04:07:20 AM »
Quote from: "lonewolfny42"
What it comes down to.....you have to listen for yourself to find out if a product is right for you.

Look....I own a lot of equipment....is there one perfect piece....no. I've not heard it yet.

Chris, the Dodd Battery pre is about as close as I've heard to a perfect piece...at least in my system....of course you need to season it with your favorite tubes to make it perfect, but straight from Gary it still is steller.

shep

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A controversial post.....
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2007, 04:44:36 AM »
Quote from: "Carlman"
Audionervosa is an open forum for ALL audio discussion, which includes differences of opinions, experiences, etc.  As long as it's ABOUT audio.. and not just throwing mud and calling names and that sort of thing...

You see how the iron fist at that 'other forum' has us trained?  

Be happy you're here, be free. :)
:lol: that was wicked!  The trick seems to be to keep principles before personalities, to be honest yet non-offensive. Not always easy...It is/was virtually impossible to do this over at AC given the number of manufacturers
there who obviously don't want to have their products bad-mouthed (and were generally a protected species). T'was ever thus. At the end of the day it's the end user who should have the last word and be best served (here as elsewhere) oherwise it's just pandering to and treading on eggs to not hurt people's feelings (or business). That's laudable but not very creative or productive. There has to be a place where we can be honest and ruthless if needs be. Hopefully this forum can fullfill that aim. It does however imply keeping a rein on the keyboard and avoiding ego matches which help no one.