Author Topic: Bi/Dipole surrounds or standard?  (Read 9756 times)

Brian Bunge

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Bi/Dipole surrounds or standard?
« on: April 29, 2008, 06:04:32 PM »
So I'm in the process of working up a new line of speakers with curved sides and this buddy of mine is bugging the hell out of me to offer a bipole or dipole surround.  I've never used them myself but have heard several systems that did and I can honestly say that I didn't really think they offered that much more of an immersive experience than well placed monopole speakers.  I have a tendancy to setup standard speakers so that they do not fire directly at the listener.  I've had in-walls directly to the sides but about 8' above the floor with a cathedral ceiling that sounded wonderful.  I've also fired small monitor speakers angled slightly upwards on the walls and even placed under end tables fired out to the sides when wall mounting was not an option.

So what do you guys think?  Do you feel like you'd be missing something without di/bipole surrounds?  Are there specific setups where you feel they not only sound better but are necessary?  I'll use your opinions to help me decide if it's really worth the time/money/hassle to design a bi/dipole surround or just stick to standard monitors for surround use.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Bi/Dipole surrounds or standard?
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2008, 06:29:04 PM »
Hi Brian!! Your project sounds cool. Surround isn't a big thing for me, but I have monos. Deftech ProCinema 60s... wooohoo!! Sounds good pointing directly at my head.  If I listened to music in surround it would need to be monopole. Seems to that the imaging even in movies would work better with monopoles, as it was originally mixed. But if surrounds can't be placed ideally, maybe diploes spray a broader stroke to fill in better. I'm no expert in this but I beat the experts to the first post .....  hahaha...

Brian Bunge

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Re: Bi/Dipole surrounds or standard?
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2008, 06:33:53 PM »
Hi Rich!  Thanks for the reply!  I tend to agree with you.  I think with today's mixes and discrete channels monopoles make more sense.  And yes, with multi-channel music I think direct radiating surrounds are a better choice.

I guess if you have a rather small room and the surrounds can't be placed ideally maybe bi/dipoles may be a better option.

Offline stereofool

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Re: Bi/Dipole surrounds or standard?
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2008, 06:37:22 PM »
I'm with you...I only use direct firing monopoles for surrounds...for that matter all speakers in my HT setup(s)...as well as main audio (only) system.

I'm not convinced you are going to get a significant increase in 'apparent' ambience...by using a dipole over using a monopole speaker. Plus, in my experience you lose some 'image' specificity with dipoles.

Just my 2 cents  :roll:.
Steve
Have you ever noticed.... Anyone going slower than you is an idiot...and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

Offline bpape

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Re: Bi/Dipole surrounds or standard?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2008, 03:53:04 AM »
A dissenting opinion...

I'll agree that the REAR surrounds should be monopole.  Also, if you have multiple pairs of side surrounds, they should be monopole.  If you have a straight 7.1 or 7.2 setup, I prefer the side surrounds to be di/bipole.  MUCH more diffuse surround field but still retaining the ability to act as a midpoint in hard front to back pans.

Bryan
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Offline Carlman

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Re: Bi/Dipole surrounds or standard?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2008, 06:38:41 AM »
I never understood where dipoles came into play... We went from 5.1, 6.1, 7.1.. etc.. and I lost track... I know there are systems with even more speakers but the folks that produce movies aren't recording in more than 5.1 that often... Based on conversations with folks I know that are 'into' HT and by looking at all the movies in my collection.  I think I have 1 or 2 in 7.1... and I'm hoping all the new Blu-ray discs I buy have a 7.1 track... most do so far... but even then... they weren't originally in 7.1 because that wasn't even out yet when the movies were produced.

Here's the 6.1 and 7.1 setups according to the people that invented it:

(source: http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/dolby_ex.html)

All that said, I have yet to find a 'need' for dipoles but I don't doubt they actually sound good. ;)

-C
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Offline hometheaterdoc

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Re: Bi/Dipole surrounds or standard?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2008, 08:38:51 AM »
most go with a dipole because of the compromise they may have in their room running a monopole surround too close to their listening position... if the speaker isn't very good at imaging, or if the location is so compromised (layout issues, distance to the listener's ear, WAF placement issues, obstructions, etc.), the dipole tends to restore the sense of spaciousness to the surround channels, and is much more difficult to place the speaker.  It immerses you more in the surround field instead of hearing distinct speakers and ruining the illusion.

Of course, if the dipole speaker stinks, the the whole point is mute.  The TS-150 speakers from Von Schweikert (now discontinued) were really good dipoles for the money.  I was startled a couple times in installations where you should have been easily able to tell the speaker was right there how much they disappeared and allowed the illusion to take over of enveloping soundfield.
Shane Sangster
Used to be Night & Day Audio.......