AudioNervosa

Electro Stimulation Ward => Signals and Noise => Topic started by: Emil on February 27, 2016, 07:14:59 AM

Title: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: Emil on February 27, 2016, 07:14:59 AM
to hear some super expensive cables in their system.

Owners of these http://www.highfidelitycables.com/ almost sound orgasmic when they talk about them. ICs start at $1600 a pair.

I set a limit for myself that I woudnt pay more than $200 for a pair.
Maybe I should rethink that. Not saying I'd spend $1600 but if I'm willing to spend say 2k on a component, why not on cables? Shouldnt they be considered a vital link in the chain?

Please, lets not go into cost of construction and materials.





Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: rpf on February 27, 2016, 07:58:11 AM
Cables are absolutely a vital link, essentially a component.

Unfortunately, finding those that work best in one's system is largely a matter of trial and error.

Fortunately you don't have to spend mega bucks to find great cables and price is not necessarily the best determinant of how the cables will work in any system. 

See our own Pete/TWL. (plug, plug, plug).   :rofl:

I also really like Paul Kaplan's wires.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: mfsoa on February 27, 2016, 08:00:15 AM
Super expensive? Probably not.

But in general I do believe that the higher the cost the better the sound (I said in general - I know there's a lot of scatter around the cost vs. quality line) to the point where it gets silly.

Nowadays I feel you can get pretty good quality from a say $500 dac. Maybe 90% of the way to state-of-the-art But what cables are you going to use?  The 10% rule? $50? Nah - you'd be throwing away too much SQ.

$200? OK, now most of the SQ is back, cable-wise.

But the pisser is, spend $500 and my guess is you'd be able to significantly improve on your $200 jobbie. But now you've equaled the cost of your dac and that's just insane.

But spend more than $500 on your cable and I would not be surprised if the SQ goes up even more. But now the apple cart's been totally overturned.

So what to do? Each person has their own ratio of acceptable sound vs. $$ that is theirs alone.

So yeah I don't doubt that a megabuck cable can do things that a $100 one can't. How far do ya wanna go down the wabbit hole....

-Mike



To the point that
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: Triode Pete on February 27, 2016, 08:04:55 AM
to hear some super expensive cables in their system.

Owners of these http://www.highfidelitycables.com/ almost sound orgasmic when they talk about them. ICs start at $1600 a pair.

I set a limit for myself that I woudnt pay more than $200 for a pair.
Maybe I should rethink that. Not saying I'd spend $1600 but if I'm willing to spend say 2k on a component, why not on cables? Shouldnt they be considered a vital link in the chain?

Please, lets not go into cost of construction and materials.







You should read Art Dudley's review of the High Fidelity Magnetic adapters in the March 2016 Stereophile... Smooth... but that smooth sound was also duller, less contrasty, and altogether less interesting. His other comments regarding a John Lennon song is that "the song sounded tired and listless: The pace dragged, and the players sounded bored." He tried another song from the Nitty Gritty Dirt band, "the pace was laggy and lack-luster, and the reverb-drenched spoken intro sounded desultory and, again tired"...

He concluded, "I was surprised when the technology pushed the sound of my system in the wrong direction."

Wow, for Art Dudley to publish a "bashing" review says a lot...

Just because there's a ton of marketing hype on this "quantum" magnetic technology doesn't mean you'll get synergistic results. Others who spent a ton of money of these cables aren't about to bash them either, to avoid the "foolish syndrome"...

A couple years back Consumer's Reports discovered that a certain Mercedes Benz model wasn't a very dependable model and had tons of issues. What they had found is that owners of this Mercedes Benz model were embarrassed that they paid so much for this car and were embarrassed to report their "actual" experiences with this model. Instead, they rated the car with very high marks, to avoid feeling "foolish"...

My $0.02,
Pete

Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: Emil on February 27, 2016, 08:37:02 AM
See our own Pete/TWL. (plug, plug, plug).   ROFLMAO


Oh I know Pete's stuff very well. Have a bunch of his power cords as well as his speaker cable.
Pete offers the best value in cables in the business :thumb:
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: jbtrio on February 27, 2016, 09:07:22 AM
Emil,
 I have a couple of their IC's and they are worth the praise.
The problem with Art's review is you can't just put them in and out. They need to settle a couple of days also, those weren't the cables they were the RCA adapters. Which adding extra connectors isn't a good thing, IMHO.

I also think Pete's stuff is excellent. One of these days I'll like to try his new PC on my monoblo :Dcks.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: jbtrio on February 27, 2016, 09:10:10 AM
I remember a few years back Art Dudley didn't think power cords made a big difference, just saying.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: tmazz on February 27, 2016, 09:21:08 AM
Not saying I'd spend $1600 but if I'm willing to spend say 2k on a component, why not on cables? Shouldnt they be considered a vital link in the chain?

Emil, I think in these two sentences you cut right to the heart of the question. At $200 a cable is an accessory purchase, but at $1600 it is a component and should be evaluated the same way that you would any other component, by asking A) Does it make my system sound better, B) Is the amount of sound improvement worth the amount of money you will have to pay for the new component (This is very subjective and your own opinion is the only one that matters here, because you can be sure that there will be all kinds of people who will want to tell you how they think you should spend your money.  :lol:) and finally C) What other options are there for a system upgrade with that amount of money and would any of them produce and even bigger SQ improvement over what you are now considering.

Steps A & B are pretty automatic for all of us,but especially with cables step C often gets overlooked. And that is OK if you are dealing with $200 cables , because putting that kind of money into hardware us unlikely  to yield a significant increase and if there was say an amp that was significantly better than the one you have now that was only $200 more you probably would have bought that one in the first place. However the game changes significantly when the price of the cables begins to approach the price of the component they are connected to. Say you have a $200 amp connected with a $200 pair of ICs. Your total investment in this setup is $2200. If you are evaluating upgrading your IC to one of those $1600 IC the question now becomes would a $2000 amp with !1600 ICs sound better than a $3600 amp with $200 ICs. Hmmmm, that is a much different proposition. or taken even further, would my musical experience be enhanced more if I just left the amp and ICs as they are and sunk $1600 into a better DAC or Phono cartridge?The decision tree just becomes much more complicated, as it should for a purchase of that magnitude.

But back to your original question, I have upgraded cables several times over the years and got nice improvements each. Many years ago I pretty much standardized on MIT cables. When I first got my system I went trough and extensive period of trial and error testing and listened to pretty much every cable that Audio Visions carried (Steve and Nick were very patient about lending me cables and actually insisted that I do this) After extensive listening MIT was the best match to the equipment I have and over the years (and many later experiments) that has not really changed) Other people have varying opinions on MIT, but they just work for me, except for some reason between the TT and the phone input of the pre,where the run of Monster M-1000 bests the MITs, I don't know why and of course the power cables, which are all TWL). When I got the VT-200 amp the huge size of the chassis dictated that the amp had to come out of the rack and on the floor between the speakers. I needed a shorter run of Speaker cables and when I shopped around the used adds I spotted a 6 ft pair of MIT MH-750 Shotguns for $400 that was perfect for what I needed. My Thiels had always been connected with the standard MH-750  cables so I figure the shotgun would have the same house sound and they were the right length and reasonably priced so I went for it. Now if I remember correctly back in the late 80s when I originally bought my original speaker cables a 6 ft run of standard 750 cost in the area of $400 and the shotgun version was about $1200 (Don't quote me on the exact numbers, but I remember that it was a bit more than double. Now I did not seek out the shotguns for a SQ upgrade, I did it to meet the needs of a new physical configuration, but I was very pleasantly surprised with the amount of additional SQ they gave me. Would I have paid this $1200 for them back in 1988, I doubt it (and of course when the amp was in the rack on the side of the room I would have needed 15 ft runs of shotgun which would have come close to $2000 in price). I have also twice moved up within the MIT line, one because I got cables on a clearance sale when MIT and Transparent dissolved their US Distribution and Audio Advisor was blowing out $600 cables for $99 and the other when I needed a 15 ft IC to feed the VT-200 on the floor and just found a great deal on ebay.) Both times I could definitely hear the difference in the "Better" cables.

But I also have to warn you that better is not always better, even with the same cable. When I got those MIT Clearance cables I quickly ran over to the home of another AudioSyndrome member, telling him "you have to listen to these right away. They sound great and the clearance stock will not last long. We plugged them into his system and not only did they not sound great, they sounded awful.Never mind not buying them as an upgrade, I would not have put them in that system if somebody gave then to me for free. And I found out about them from another friend who bought some abd brought them over to my house. In our two system they sounded Great (and are still in place in both systems today), But at Jim's house, YUCK. Cables are very finicky. In my peersonal experience just because they are expensive doesn't mean that they are good and just because they are good in one system does not mean that they will be good in another. (or even in two different spots in the same system as with my phono stage.)

So in answer to your original question, more expensive cables can, and often do sound better, but not always.

And just for the record, in today's market $1600 hardly qualifies as super expensive cables. Even though I would agree that $1600 of a big pile of cash to lay out for 3 feet of wire it is nowadays pretty much middle of the road in cable prices. Serach MIT Cables on Ebay and you will see ICs being sold used for $7500. Now of course I don't foresee those cables getting shipped to either of our houses, but there are people out there who have a lot of money and are not afraid to spend it on stereo equipment. Hey to each his own (I for one really like those people, because their purchases are what feed the used market when something new comes out. I never would have gotten the deals I got on used expensive cables if somebody else hadn't first bought them new.  :thumb:)
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: tmazz on February 27, 2016, 09:25:51 AM
See our own Pete/TWL. (plug, plug, plug).   ROFLMAO


Oh I know Pete's stuff very well. Have a bunch of his power cords as well as his speaker cable.
Pete offers the best value in cables in the business :thumb:

+1
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: tmazz on February 27, 2016, 09:26:46 AM
Emil,
 I have a couple of their IC's and they are worth the praise.
The problem with Art's review is you can't just put them in and out. They need to settle a couple of days also, those weren't the cables they were the RCA adapters. Which adding extra connectors isn't a good thing, IMHO.

I also think Pete's stuff is excellent. One of these days I'll like to try his new PC on my monoblo :Dcks.

Just go for it.  You will not regret it
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: _Scotty_ on February 27, 2016, 09:38:59 AM
I have a pair of Waveform Fidelity ICs in my system and they are some of the best sounding shielded cables I have ever had in my system.
A review of the Waveform Fidelity line up can be found at the URL below.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0114/waveform_fidelity_cables.htm
 Emil, I would say that cabling is very important as is power filtering.
As it is, the rest components in your system determine how much benefit better cabling will net you. There is no substitute for an in system audition of both gear and cabling.
Scotty
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: Werd on February 27, 2016, 12:27:42 PM
Depends if there is a resale value. Brings down the risk if you can sell them. If they are expensive but can not be resold I wouldn't bother. Then they are just that... Expensive. 
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: rpf on February 27, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
I have a pair of Waveform Fidelity ICs in my system and they are some of the best sounding shielded cables I have ever had in my system.
A review of the Waveform Fidelity line up can be found at the URL below.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0114/waveform_fidelity_cables.htm
 Emil, I would say that cabling is very important as is power filtering.
As it is, the rest components in your system determine how much benefit better cabling will net you. There is no substitute for an in system audition of both gear and cabling.
Scotty


For those who don't know, Paul Kaplan is Waveform Fidelity.

The ICs I have are the prototypes that were reviewed in the Enjoy The Music issue listed above. The production design (which I have not heard) are supposed to be even better.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: topround on February 27, 2016, 04:43:28 PM
Art Dudley in general needs to be taken with a grain a salt
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: _Scotty_ on February 27, 2016, 07:06:33 PM
Where did Art Dudley come from? I missed that part.
Scotty
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: tmazz on February 28, 2016, 06:05:53 AM
Where did Art Dudley come from? I missed that part.
Scotty

Reply #6
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: _Scotty_ on February 28, 2016, 07:53:33 AM
My eyes must have glazed over :duh, he was referred to clear back in reply No.3 and I missed all of the references to his name.
Thanks.
Scotty
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: rollo on March 02, 2016, 10:53:46 AM
   Yes I have and have found some are worth the money while others are not.
    IMo it comes down to this. The designer/manf. offers a cable for sale. They talk about certain design features wire purity, winding, connectors, dielectric, impedance, resistance, skin effect and so on.
   At the end of the day what it makes your system sound like is all that matters.
    Budget plays an important part probably the most important to a potential buyer.
   If one cannot afford or is unwilling to pay "X" then one looks at a price point they are comfortable with. s they can
   When one decides on a budget one should listen to ALL cables at that point. As an educational experience listen to a exotic priced cable. you never know until you try. If the said cable rocks your system you now have a reference point to judge all comers at your price point.
   Now we have a price point. What's next ? The so called r claimed character of the cable as a starting point. Neutral ??, Rich ?? Lean ?? [ oh no], detailed, etc.
   Seek them out and listen. We sell TWL and Mad Scientist cabling. Both are excellent products. Which one ?? your system will tell you that. I personally use both as that have a great synergy between them.
   Please try not to poo poo expensive stuff if not in your budget. Let the system do that.


charles


charles
 
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: topround on March 02, 2016, 03:25:44 PM
expensive cables are expensive because people buy them at the expensive price.
If no one bought that $4000 power cord, the price would drop like a rock.

That is a fact.............................

That is how the market works........

it is the undeniable truth ...and we all know it

How many $4000 power cords are sold in 3rd world countries?
How many manufacturers would even try to sell them in 3rd world countries at that price point.?

Just like wine....the $500 dollar bottle sells because there is a buyer, the yachting industry always takes a hit in a recession.
If you have people with money, your job is to convince them to spend it.
If they can't afford your $4000 power cord, you would be out of business in no time, but you would change your business model and lower prices to meet the market demand so you can be in business.

Also high end audio must have the highest depreciation of any luxury good on the market, sure the 2 ,3 , 4 thousand dollar components sell back and forth all day new and used, but the 5 and 6 figure components get beat up real bad in the used market.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: Werd on March 02, 2016, 05:46:20 PM
expensive cables are expensive because people buy them at the expensive price.
If no one bought that $4000 power cord, the price would drop like a rock.

That is a fact.............................

That is how the market works........

it is the undeniable truth ...and we all know it

How many $4000 power cords are sold in 3rd world countries?
How many manufacturers would even try to sell them in 3rd world countries at that price point.?

Just like wine....the $500 dollar bottle sells because there is a buyer, the yachting industry always takes a hit in a recession.
If you have people with money, your job is to convince them to spend it.
If they can't afford your $4000 power cord, you would be out of business in no time, but you would change your business model and lower prices to meet the market demand so you can be in business.

Also high end audio must have the highest depreciation of any luxury good on the market, sure the 2 ,3 , 4 thousand dollar components sell back and forth all day new and used, but the 5 and 6 figure components get beat up real bad in the used market.

I agree it's called feeding the 1% in a fascist economy. Right now (up here too but a little less) we have democratic governments using a fascist economy. We are no longer capitalist. Forget that capitalism is 20 th century. This is full fascism. Don't like it ..oh well too late. We missed the bus about 20 years ago. Get ready you Government is now (and will completely be run like) a corporation. You are now an employee of the United States of America.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: topround on March 03, 2016, 02:57:31 PM
some(many) people work for the corporation, some of us work to fund it
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: rollo on March 04, 2016, 06:50:49 AM
expensive cables are expensive because people buy them at the expensive price.
If no one bought that $4000 power cord, the price would drop like a rock.

That is a fact.............................

That is how the market works........

it is the undeniable truth ...and we all know it

How many $4000 power cords are sold in 3rd world countries?
How many manufacturers would even try to sell them in 3rd world countries at that price point.?

Just like wine....the $500 dollar bottle sells because there is a buyer, the yachting industry always takes a hit in a recession.
If you have people with money, your job is to convince them to spend it.
If they can't afford your $4000 power cord, you would be out of business in no time, but you would change your business model and lower prices to meet the market demand so you can be in business.

Also high end audio must have the highest depreciation of any luxury good on the market, sure the 2 ,3 , 4 thousand dollar components sell back and forth all day new and used, but the 5 and 6 figure components get beat up real bad in the used market.

   Who cares ? Pricing is pricing for what ever reason. Cannot we just have fun. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything.
     Lots of affordable stuff out there. The hard part is finding a cable that fits ones budget and has synergy with the system.
     A cable does not have to cheap or expensive just well designed.
     The OP asked if anyone tried expensive cables not how much they cost.

charles
     
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: Werd on March 04, 2016, 01:01:22 PM
some(many) people work for the corporation, some of us work to fund it

Nein! I talking about thees


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UQDTZcpsDE
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: bigkidz on March 04, 2016, 05:58:11 PM
I have heard the Hi Fidelity interconnects in a few different systems now.  So systems sounded much better and some where the improvement was not that pronounced.  Don't know the model or level and the pricing of them.  There is so much that goes into what makes a system improve and why.  All that matters is if you hear a benefit in your system.  As for the high pricing of audio cables/tweaks/components, etc., go make your own and see what the actual cost is to not only purchase materials, but have someone who will sell you small quantities of materials to start out, then design an appealing design, probably need someone to do a CAD drawing, market that out to manufacturers who will make you what you need in small quantities, design a shipping container with wrapping, foam inserts, etc., add shipping, expense, get a website, pictures of your items, specs, answer countless email questions, add tax you will pay to Uncle Sam after you move form selling them out of your garage or kitchen table, going to a show paying for a room, paying for reviews, what else did I miss, well you get the idea.  I do agree that the prices can be very high but every one has their own budget and what they will pay for an item if they feel their system shows enough improvement.

Happy Listening.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: topround on March 05, 2016, 03:26:13 AM
That a company like audioquest can design, manufacture, advertise, and box and ship cables for like $179 shows that it can be done cheaply.
With cable markups in the 50 to 70 % range they show it can be done cheaply and still make a profit.

Why a cable costs $4000 or more ....well we all know the reason

and yes people are free to spend their money any way they want, I don't think anyone ever questioned that, just why does a cable cost more than a component.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: tmazz on March 06, 2016, 06:42:15 PM
That a company like audioquest can design, manufacture, advertise, and box and ship cables for like $179 shows that it can be done cheaply.
With cable markups in the 50 to 70 % range they show it can be done cheaply and still make a profit.

Why a cable costs $4000 or more ....well we all know the reason

and yes people are free to spend their money any way they want, I don't think anyone ever questioned that, just why does a cable cost more than a component.

And Radio Shack can design, manufacture, advertise, and box and ship cables for $8, what does that prove? The answer to this question is the same as for any other consumer product sold in any market. It cost what it costs for no reason other than there are enough people will to pay it top make is worth it manufacturer's effort so make it.

We can talk all we want about how much profit is made at a give price point, but the simple economic fact remains that regardless of whether a company is making 1% or 10,00% profit on an item, if customers were not willing to pay the asking price only two things could happen, the seller could lower the price to a point that consumer were willing to pay or the company would stop offering the product for sale.

It is pure and simple supply and demand economics. And in spite of the fact that you , or anybody else may think that $4k (or any other price) is a ridiculous amount to pay for a cable, so long as enough people think that that cable does provide (at least to them) a good bang for the buck, we will continue to have $4k cables out there.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: topround on March 06, 2016, 06:57:39 PM
agreed...............

My point being that when I or anyone else complains about the prices it is own own fault...........

I would love to sell everyone on this website a cable I banged out on my kitchen table for $4000,,,,,,,who wouldn't?

There is a restaurant in the city that sell a hamburger for $1000, we may look at this as crazy, but then again those people that pay $12 bucks for a hamburger think we are crazy to pay $4000 for a powercord.

It is a question to ponder, there is no right or wrong answer here, just an observation of what IS, and you take away from it what you want. There is a lot of food for thought here, it depends how deep you want to think.............or not............the privilege is yours

Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: tmazz on March 07, 2016, 07:44:49 AM
There is a restaurant in the city that sell a hamburger for $1000, we may look at this as crazy, but then again those people that pay $12 bucks for a hamburger think we are crazy to pay $4000 for a powercord.

Absolutely.

Hey I know people that don't bat an eyelash at spending $300 for a bottle of wine with dinner. Me, I would be just as happy with a $2 glass of Pepsi (with free refills, of course) and that would leave me $298 to spend at PREX.   :drool:    :rofl:



Hey, to each his own.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: Werd on March 07, 2016, 06:52:35 PM
The difference now, the generic stuff of the past is nothing like tbe garbage we have now. Ever look at a generic cable these days? A complete pile of shit. And they want $25 up here Canadian. Not those Trump bucks you guys got now. They don't even use copper. It is all nickel with a tad bit of copper. Shielding is some type of plastic- recycled-rubber dredged up from some over-polluted river from China. Its horrible.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: jessearias on March 23, 2016, 11:13:22 AM
I had an opportunity to go to a Nordost demo at my local stereo store. The demonstrator always started off with a Radio Shack type generic cord or cable. Going to their entry line of cables, the Leif series, you could hear a vast improvement in the sound quality.

As he progressed up to the most expensive cables like the Odin and Valhalla, there was a difference, but very slight in each case.

For a bang for your buck, the entry level Leif series were the ones that gave the best performance for the money spent. I cannot see paying $2000+ for incremental improvements. I have to agree with some other posters that $500+/- will get you a very good sounding cable.

Caviet: My high range hearing is not the best as I was involved in an IED blast in Iraq. There may have been a bigger difference in the more expensive cables but I could not hear the difference. From the comments of the other people in attendance, it was a mixed bag.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: richidoo on March 23, 2016, 12:31:03 PM
Thanks for your service, Jesse....  :clap:
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: _Scotty_ on March 23, 2016, 02:27:30 PM
I too thank-you for your service Jessie, glad that you made it back. Even with some hearing loss you may have better analytical abilities as a result of having more experience than someone with with better hearing who is a neophyte.
My hearing starts to go away at 14kHz and inconsistent tinnitus in both ears can sometimes obscure low level details if I am listening at low SPLs, say under 65dB. That being said, I usually have little trouble telling the difference between one cable design and another.
Scotty
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: jessearias on March 24, 2016, 05:52:54 AM
Thanks for the salutes!   :thumb:

I would have to agree that it all depends on your system. Some brand cables sound better than others in certain systems. And not necessarily real expensive ones.

I have nothing against spending money on good equipment, but with cables, there seems to be a point of incremental increases per dollar spent. It seems to me at the lower price points below 1K, you seem to get anywhere from 3-5% increases per price point in performance. But after than it is like 1-2% increases and maybe less than that when the price point goes above 2K. It reminds me of a review I read in Stereophile between a 5K pair of Brand X interconnects and a 10K pair of Brand Y. Of the 5 reviewers who were no strangers to high end, half could tell a difference and half could not. I found that a rather profound observation.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: tmazz on March 24, 2016, 07:04:02 AM
But it is that way with anything in audio, the only thing that differs is the price point at which you start hitting diminishing returns. The SQ difference between a $500 and $5K amp will almost always (never say never) be greater than the difference between a $5k and $50k amp. There is a sweet spot price wise for pretty much every type of equipment.

And like most everything else, if you want to live out of the leading edge quality wise, it is going to cost you... big time.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: rollo on March 24, 2016, 01:38:14 PM
Thanks for your service, Jesse....  :clap:


  +1 Sir thank you.

charles
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: Barry (NJ) on March 28, 2016, 09:26:45 AM
In my experience they can all sound different, heck the process of unplugging and re-plugging your existing cables can have an effect on the sound. But different != better, and you need to find the sound you like, at what ever price point it may fall. Just my $.02 ;)
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: jessearias on March 31, 2016, 11:47:56 AM
When it comes to differences in cables, it is hard to judge Brand X from Brand Y.
In my hot rod books (another very expensive hobby), they will test intake manifolds using the same test engine. They bolt on the manifold, adjust the carb and timing for best results and let it fly. You can see the differences in the dyno chart. They can test 5 or 6 manifolds in one day.

I know you cannot do that to cables unless they are all seasoned and burnt in prior to testing to get equal results. If you had to wait the required hours to let them season and burn in, you would completely forget what the previous cables sounded like.

But it would be interesting to see a back to back test of cables in this manner.
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: tmazz on April 01, 2016, 07:31:59 AM
Jessie this is where have some good reference material that you are very familiar with comes in handy. I have several cuts that I use for evaluation that each show me specific things. I know exactly how they sound and in terms of imaging know where things belong in terms od width depth and height and in my own room keep notes as to physical landmarks in the room that to keep track of exactly where things fall in the soundstage. That way I can evaluate a cable or component even without a direct A/B comparison because I have a solid reference point to start from. While this works great for imaging, it is not as easy for things like detail and tonality, but when you listen to the same cuts over and over again, after a while you just get to know what to expect from a recording.

Of course this cannot completely eliminate the need for A/B listening. While this can be very helpful in finding large diferences, the closer the components are to each other, the more important it is to compare them directly. But what it can do is help you narrow the field down to components that are all close so that you only have to do A/B comparisons to the ones that to consider "finalists."

There is however on big downside the this method. When you use the same two or three albums as test music every time they hit the turntable your wife knows that there is a new piece of gear in the house.  :roll:  :rofl:
Title: Re: Has anyone had the opportunity....
Post by: rollo on April 04, 2016, 12:24:52 PM
  Have you guys heard Ic's using carbon fiber as a conductor ? Digital and analog ? Pm me.


charles